Moderator: Bard Hall Bouncers
When Mister Pot met Master Kettle, he was heard to remark on Master Kettle's hue.
What's your problem? If you don't like my commentary, then just ignore it. Ranting at me isn't going to change my desire to see inXile deliver the piece of software that they said they were going to deliver. By ranting at me are you hoping to get bonus points from inXile, promoted to moderator, or something?
I think I was pretty explicit what the problem was. And don't give me that "you're an Inxile-shill" crap, that's just weak. I'm saying your incessant whining about the same thing over and over is annoying as hell, because it is. Period. You've been at them for almost a year, and you're STILL making the exact same comments a year later. Grow the f- up. You ask those questions, well knowing the answers, and thus those questions are not posed genuinely. You know that, and I know that, as said. You don't have to wait and see, the DC will never encompass all the things you want it to encompass, and because you're not moving on with this, you'll be right back whining here again, after the DC, as if you couldn't have guessed. It's so unbelievable... immature._noblesse_oblige_ wrote: ↑July 12th, 2019, 3:48 pmWhat's your problem? If you don't like my commentary, then just ignore it. Ranting at me isn't going to change my desire to see inXile deliver the piece of software that they said they were going to deliver. By ranting at me are you hoping to get bonus points from inXile, promoted to moderator, or something?
inXile said they were going to make BT4. Some of us would still like to see them follow through on that, since that's what we backed this project for. Maybe this "Legacy Mode" for the Barrows Deep game will bring them closer to doing that. If no other information is forthcoming in the meantime, then I guess we'll wait and see.
I didn't suggest and am not suggesting that you are inXile shill. Was just wondering what your motives are for making such a big public stink about my comments. What's in it for you?
Wrong. Given past experience with inXile ignoring feedback from those familiar with the original series, I can guess what some of the answers might be. But, the Barrows Deep game also didn't do so well and perhaps inXile has learned some humility from it. Maybe they're more willing to fix past errors now. Doubtful, but we'll see. Hope springs eternal....
Yes, and my commentary wasn't attacking you personally. Yours is attacking me personally. I have no problem with publicly defending myself against public attacks. You're creating a lot of irrelevant noise in a thread that is supposed to be about the content of Update 58 from the Kickstarter. My questions to inXile still stand.
It's basically saying the same thing, in a more roundabout way: it presumes, or at least insinuates, that I have ulterior motives, in which my responses to you are meant to give me some benefit from Inxile. Another way of saying I'm a shill, thus - you just didn't explicitly claim I was being payed by Inxile. And then you claim you're not "attacking" me. No, you are. You're just doing it in an evasive manner, by insinuation. At least I'm being open about it: I call you a whiner because, according to the dictionary definition you ARE. I don't need any insinuations. I'm also not questioning your integrity in your feelings of frustration: I believe your frustration is genuine, only your way of disguising them as mere questions is disingenuous. You were being more honest about it in your other posts. But I'm giving you the slack that you actually mean what you're saying and feel frustrated and disillusioned. I don't doubt that. It doesn't change the fact you're whiny and immature, but no doubt you're being honest in your frustrated feelings."I didn't suggest and am not suggesting that you are inXile shill. Was just wondering what your motives are for making such a big public stink about my comments. What's in it for you?"
No, I don't buy that. NO-ONE is that idiotic or naive to think Inxile is going to drastically change their game in the DC like you want it, because you were whining about your personal preferences in the fora. Or do you really expect anyone to believe you're *actually* thinking they might have replaced Skara Brae being in the right direction in the plains again and not being a port anymore, because you were whining about it in the comments?"Wrong. Given past experience with inXile ignoring feedback from those familiar with the original series, I can guess what some of the answers might be. But, the Barrows Deep game also didn't do so well and perhaps inXile has learned some humility from it. Maybe they're more willing to fix past errors now. Doubtful, but we'll see. Hope springs eternal...."
No, I'm being factual, unless you claim you don't fit that dictionary definition?"Yours is attacking me personally."
I didn't explicitly claim that you were being paid by inXile because I have no idea whether you are or not. I also have no idea why you're so keen on calling me names, like "whiny" and "immature". Could be trolling, could be shilling, could be personal animosity towards me from some past argument in these fora. No idea. Hence my question: what's in it for you? A question which you still haven't answered.It's basically saying the same thing, in a more roundabout way: it presumes, or at least insinuates, that I have ulterior motives, in which my responses to you are meant to give me some benefit from Inxile. Another way of saying I'm a shill, thus - you just didn't explicitly claim I was being payed by Inxile."I didn't suggest and am not suggesting that you are inXile shill. Was just wondering what your motives are for making such a big public stink about my comments. What's in it for you?"
I've never complained about anyone in these fora to any moderator. I just call out the perpetrators directly when they're making personal attacks against people who have legitimate complaints / questions that they are trying to air to inXile. I really don't understand the extreme sensitivity or defensiveness of others about the criticism of a third party, like inXile, or a product, like Barrows Deep. Why do you care? Why are you so emotionally invested in defending inXile or attacking those who have criticisms of it?I've actually got reprimanded by the moderators because you - or people like you - have been complaining about my negative remarks about their posts - even though they themselves feel entitled to be negative about Inxile or moderators.
I have no idea what you're going on about here. As far as I know, the question of free speech has never arisen in this thread. This is a forum which is maintained by inXile. If they want to kick me off it, they can... and I'm not claiming otherwise. Given their propensity to censor forum remarks on Steam, I've fully expected them to delete my posts or kick me out here at some point. (My guess it isn't worth their while, since very few people actually read these fora. Their main foci for PR manipulation seem to be Steam and the industry press.) In the meantime, while I'm still here, I'll keep reminding them about their obligation to make a Bard's Tale game, since they took money from people, claiming that they were going to make a Bard's Tale game with it.Free speech adepts that like to criticize but muffle another who is critical of them - speak of hypocrites. Bet you didn't know that, huh?
Pulling out a dictionary and then trying to pin a definition on someone, claiming that somehow makes you objective or factual rather than a name-caller, is quite disingenuous. No one actually has accept what you're trying to pin on them. Bringing a dictionary into the argument doesn't somehow make you more objective or "factual".No, I'm being factual, unless you claim you don't fit that dictionary definition?"Yours is attacking me personally."
That was exactly my point: you didn't say it directly I got payed, but you insinuated I say what I say because of ulterior motives, with gaining some benefit in mind. Instead of accepting that I say what I say because I think and feel the way I do, just like you. There *needs* not to be any other reason. And you're doing your repetitive thing here again; you're asking the very same thing again, claiming I did not answer, while I've explicitly stated WHY I say what I say: because you're a whiner (factual, as the dictionary shows) and I don't like whiners. Your constant insinuations that it's about something else is as weak as me saying you spout your negativity ad nauseam because you have ulterior motives, like: maybe you've shorted on Inxile, etc. It's a weak pseudo-argument.I didn't explicitly claim that you were being paid by inXile because I have no idea whether you are or not. I also have no idea why you're so keen on calling me names, like "whiny" and "immature". Could be trolling, could be shilling, could be personal animosity towards me from some past argument in these fora. No idea. Hence my question: what's in it for you? A question which you still haven't answered.
I'll take your word for it. Or maybe I should doubt it and think you denying it, has ulterior motives as well? I mean, I can play that game too. What's in it for you to deny you did it? Is it personal animosity? Etc, etc. As said: it's a weak and useless way to take that route. Anyhow, it's also why I said "or others like you". Obviously, I don't know who exactly, only that at least one person has.I've never complained about anyone in these fora to any moderator. I just call out the perpetrators directly when they're making personal attacks against people who have legitimate complaints / questions that they are trying to air to inXile. I really don't understand the extreme sensitivity or defensiveness of others about the criticism of a third party, like inXile, or a product, like Barrows Deep. Why do you care? Why are you so emotionally invested in defending inXile or attacking those who have criticisms of it?
The point is, you are insinuating I do it because I'm hoping to get moderator status or some other benefit from Inxile. Apparently you were unaware the opposite is true: I'm getting a reprimand when calling you guys out. That shows the silliness of the claim/implied insinuation, apart from it being already insulting - so let's not act as if you're not "attacking" me; it's just you're doing it in a more roundabout manner. And still you continue with it: is it because for this or that? Is it because some beef in the past? No, It isn't. I remember seeing you post the very same complaints in the past, and the whining annoys me, but I don't know you at all. Maybe you're a swell guy, in person. But you're whining on the forum. It's not because it's you, personally, it's because you started this thread with - once again - the same whining. So obviously you stood out. If it were another whiner who said the very same thing, I would have said exactly the same to THAT guy. Capisce? I've already - again - told you exactly that, so why are you still acting as if I didn't make that clear?I have no idea what you're going on about here. As far as I know, the question of free speech has never arisen in this thread. This is a forum which is maintained by inXile. If they want to kick me off it, they can... and I'm not claiming otherwise. Given their propensity to censor forum remarks on Steam, I've fully expected them to delete my posts or kick me out here at some point. (My guess it isn't worth their while, since very few people actually read these fora. Their main foci for PR manipulation seem to be Steam and the industry press.) In the meantime, while I'm still here, I'll keep reminding them about their obligation to make a Bard's Tale game, since they took money from people, claiming that they were going to make a Bard's Tale game with it.
No, it does. The dictionary definition is meant to not weasel out on it by claiming semantic differences "Oh, but for *me* whining means something else." No, it means what it means. The logic is undeniable: a whiner is someone who whines, and whining is: "to complain or express disappointment or unhappiness repeatedly". If you say you don't accept that, it would mean you deny you have complained or expressed disappointment or unhappiness repeatedly. That would be demonstrably untrue. *Facts* are what makes something objective and factual - obviously - and you HAVE complained and expressed so numerous times, so it's factual true you're a whiner. I understand you don't like it, but you are.Pulling out a dictionary and then trying to pin a definition on someone, claiming that somehow makes you objective or factual rather than a name-caller, is quite disingenuous. No one actually has accept what you're trying to pin on them. Bringing a dictionary into the argument doesn't somehow make you more objective or "factual".
Well, one can't speak for every forum or game, of course, but I think in most instances it's also due to people not simply giving a valid complaint, but doing so repetitively and excessively, ad nauseam. In the definition of "whining" the keyword is "repeatedly" after all. Once you've said what you wanted to say, there is no point in keep harking on about it. One may delude oneself that being whiny about it will improve things, but it won't. No-one likes whiners - except maybe other whiners that have the same pet-peeves. So it's actually counterproductive, even if the goal would genuinely be to improve the game.Gizmo wrote: ↑July 14th, 2019, 11:52 pmDeja-vu ... From the Bethsoft days with FO3 (and the early days here). Same gist of argument (from both sides), but for different games; and with both studios having committed egregious error by branding an unrelated gameplay with the famous name—and having inexplicably distorted the world setting.
The one constant then (and now) was that most of those with a legitimate peeve—and the need to address it, had ample evidence proving it, and went to great pains to explain why it was either wrong to include, or a vital omission.
Whilst their argumentative counterparts would usually dismiss the (often verbose) examples without the slightest hint of having considered them—save for attempts at derision, and ridicule.
___________
Even so... I will give the game another shot. I honestly wasn't able to stay interested in BT4 for more than an hour—though I genuinely wanted to.
Perhaps this time (though I know it's still the wrong game in the box) I might get to see those places where it shines of its own merit; I know there has to be some.
One thing that does happen in public forums, is that new people keep showing up, and often repeat old questions (and assertions) because it's new to them. Old arguments resume as newly rephrased/updated replies that are quite familiar to members that have read it all before from the last several times it was posted.svdp wrote: ↑July 15th, 2019, 3:11 amWell, one can't speak for every forum or game, of course, but I think in most instances it's also due to people not simply giving a valid complaint, but doing so repetitively and excessively, ad nauseam. In the definition of "whining" the keyword is "repeatedly" after all. Once you've said what you wanted to say, there is no point in keep harking on about it. One may delude oneself that being whiny about it will improve things, but it won't. No-one likes whiners - except maybe other whiners that have the same pet-peeves. So it's actually counterproductive, even if the goal would genuinely be to improve the game.
I disagree that it's subjective, and will say that it is very possible to like (or to dislike) a game, movie, book, image, or musical performance for reasons the person might not realize or understand... or even for the side effects of such reasons.Also, but that as an aside: while one can prove differences with past lore, it's near impossible to prove the differences are "vital", since that's highly subjective. That's why such debates never end between the two sides. I'm rather for the side that don't act like spoiled brats, whatever side that may be (but it's usually not the whiny side, thus).
When beginning a new game you'll be presented with a number of options to change game difficulty and which UI options you want to use or not. "Legacy Mode" (actually called 80's Style in-game) is a preset that changes options in an Exploration Style menu before beginning the game. You can turn these on/off individually, or choose from a preset._noblesse_oblige_ wrote: ↑July 11th, 2019, 12:21 pmBut, on https://www.inxile-entertainment.com/bardstale4?lang=en, there is only a passing mention of this "Legacy Mode" with no actual detail - what's in this mode?
Correct. They're all configured independently, the presets just act as a helpful guide.
This is the Struggler's Lament song that's been discussed previously, allowing you to bypass progression puzzles. These are puzzles that are needed to be solved to progress the game. Side/optional puzzles, etc. are not bypassable with Struggler's Lament.
I don't believe there are any that Struggler's Lament can be used on.
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