Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by Wile » July 13th, 2013, 6:19 am

dlux wrote: Wasteland is a 25 year old game where the technical capabilities of computers were strictly limited. Wasteland didn't even have a HUD for christs sake, how could anyone expect it to have a grid based inventory or other more advanced (modern) features that require more processing power and memory? The memory of Wasteland 1 was so limited by the floppies, that half (or even more) of the in-game text was printed in the freaking manual! Where is the space on the floppies for all of the icon graphics? Where is the space for the programming of the grid, etc? Correct, there wasn't any more space. Even if Interplay the would have liked to have implemented the greatly superior grid based inventory in Wasteland 1 - it was simply not possible or even feasable.
So? I simply pointed out a contradiction in your logic, that all games with list inventories are console games. That is simply a logical contradiction. Not to mention "grid/slot based inventory is always superior". Just out of curiosity, do you know what's the difference between logic and common sense?
dlux wrote: Wasteland 1 didn't have a HUD or even have any aninmations and was strictly 2D because of the limited capabilites of PCs back then. Should we limit the possibilites of this modern game even more and remove all animations, the HUD and make it strictly 2D or what? :roll:
Straw man argumentation to the rescue!
dlux wrote: As you can see, your argumentation is fallacious. So yeah, please drop your "it was like that in the original" crude und baseless BS.
So is yours. Do drop your fallacies, before accusing others.
dlux wrote:Modern console games always use inventory lists (or something very similar),
False. Deus Ex Human Revolution on WiiU, actually contradicts this.

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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by Woolfe » July 13th, 2013, 7:11 am

dlux wrote: The inventory in Wasteland 2, however, is just like it must be in any console game, because of the lack of a mouse. This does not necesarrily mean that Wasteland 2 has a consolized inventory, there might be other reasons for this decision (time and money constraints) or maybe even the argumentation "why should the game have a decent inventory system, PC players are used to the inventory lists from ported console titles anyway... And we won't even have to redesign the inventory system when we port it to the PS4 and Xbox One! Double win!" :o
I am not saying that this is what Brian and the boys are thinking, but it is quite possible. In the end all that really matters is profit maximization $$$$$$$$
Your entire argument is if it is an list based inventory then they must be making the game for consoles so that they can maximise their dollars. That is seriously the most fucked up stupid thing EVER. Fucking hell. You think that after makign the decisions that they have made in other parts of the game. FOR EXAMPLE 4 character party instead of single character with "companions". Or a point and fucking click isometric interface. You think that after all that, they are going to go with a list inventory because it is easier to port to console. Seriously think about that for a second. Of all the things they could change in the game to make it more "console" or "Profit maximising" the INVENTORY is the one that they choose. *Facepalm*
dlux wrote:
Woolfe wrote: Here is a little but of trivia for you. YOU CAN ALSO NAVIGATE A LIST BASED INVENTORY ON A PC!!!!
Yes. But it sucks. A true pain in the ass.
In YOUR OPINION. I happen to like list inventories.

Oh and the only RPG I have played on a console was one of the Final Fantasies on PS2. No wait I also played Suidoken(I think it was) on the PS1.
dlux wrote:You can also play a racing game with the keyboard + mouse... but it sucks. You need a controller with an analog joystick + analog buttons.
Or you could have a Steering wheel. Stop making statements of FACT out of your opinions, because frankly you don't know what you are talking about. Yeesh
It's not too late. Make it Eight!

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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by dlux » July 13th, 2013, 7:25 am

Wile wrote:
dlux wrote: Wasteland is a 25 year old game where the technical capabilities of computers were strictly limited. Wasteland didn't even have a HUD for christs sake, how could anyone expect it to have a grid based inventory or other more advanced (modern) features that require more processing power and memory? The memory of Wasteland 1 was so limited by the floppies, that half (or even more) of the in-game text was printed in the freaking manual! Where is the space on the floppies for all of the icon graphics? Where is the space for the programming of the grid, etc? Correct, there wasn't any more space. Even if Interplay the would have liked to have implemented the greatly superior grid based inventory in Wasteland 1 - it was simply not possible or even feasable.
So? I simply pointed out a contradiction in your logic, that all games with list inventories are console games. That is simply a logical contradiction. Not to mention "grid/slot based inventory is always superior". Just out of curiosity, do you know what's the difference between logic and common sense?
:roll:

First of all, please point out where I wrote: "Wasteland 2 is a console game". You can't, because I never wrote that. So please, cut it with your straw man tactics by constantly insinuating that I wrote something which I never did. It would also be nice if you would try to actually argue with facts instead of attacking me on a personal level and just constantly stating "you're wrong, because you're just.... wrong, because I say so". ;)

Anyway, a list based inventory is a console style inventory, no matter what you say or wish to beleive. 99% of all console games use a list based inventory, I think that is enough proof. Just because a PC game uses a list based inventory does not mean that a PC game is a console game, it just means that it is a PC game that uses the vastly inferior list based/console style inventory, where you spend endless amounts of time just scrolling and searching through the inventory, instead of being able to instantly find what you need like in a grid based inventory.

I can only point out my comparison of Diablo 3 PC vs. Diablo 3 console and hope that you finally understand. Diablo 3 PC uses a grid based inventory, which is vastly superior, because PCs have mice (duh). Diablo 3 console uses a list based inventory, because consoles don't have mice (duh).
Wile wrote:
dlux wrote: As you can see, your argumentation is fallacious. So yeah, please drop your "it was like that in the original" crude und baseless BS.
So is yours. Do drop your fallacies, before accusing others.
Wile wrote:
dlux wrote: Wasteland 1 didn't have a HUD or even have any aninmations and was strictly 2D because of the limited capabilites of PCs back then. Should we limit the possibilites of this modern game even more and remove all animations, the HUD and make it strictly 2D or what? :roll:
Straw man argumentation to the rescue!
Dude listen, seriously, if you want to deabte, then you have to counter with some facts and not your kindergarten style argumentation, i.e. "You're wrong, because you're just.... wrong!" :mrgreen:

Like I said, please drop your "it was like that in the original" crude und baseless BS. The technical capabilities were drastically limited by the PC platform in the 80s. Try not to be so ignorant and just accept this fact.
Wile wrote:
dlux wrote:Modern console games always use inventory lists (or something very similar),
False. Deus Ex Human Revolution on WiiU, actually contradicts this.
So the WiiU, with it's touch screen controller, represents all consoles? Well that would mean that the PS3/PS4 and Xbox 360/One also have touchscreen controllers.. Oh wait they don't. Oooooops.

Wow, one single game on one single system doesn't use a list based inventory. What about the 99% of the other console games? Oh, you left those out on purpose to try and support your fallacious straw man argumentation. :roll:

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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by Brother None » July 13th, 2013, 7:30 am

You guys are getting a little too heated on this topic. Perhaps take a break to cool off? I don't want to split more posts off this thread if it can be avoided.
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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by Zombra » July 13th, 2013, 12:22 pm

dlux wrote:Diablo 3 Console Inventory:
Wow, just look at that inventory list in the console version.
That's not a list. It's a gigantic picture grid with only one dimension.
A list can fit more than 3 things on the screen at once.
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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by dlux » July 13th, 2013, 4:04 pm

@ffordesoon
I can see that you are trying to insult me. I suppose you will start raging and throwing a fit now very soon also. I am waiting for your rage post, which should be the one after mine. ;)

I have to admit though, it is quite amusing to see you guys start raging and throwing insults in my direction because you can't back up your fallacious statements with facts and/or lack the ability to debate. You did the same to Hiver and anyone else in this thread who mentioned that a list based inventory is bullshit.
Zombra wrote:
dlux wrote:Diablo 3 Console Inventory:
Wow, just look at that inventory list in the console version.
That's not a list. It's a gigantic picture grid with only one dimension.
A list can fit more than 3 things on the screen at once.
It's a list, just with huge icons for some reason. Which makes things even worse because it wastes even more space.
Last edited by dlux on July 13th, 2013, 4:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by Zombra » July 13th, 2013, 5:52 pm

dlux wrote:
Zombra wrote:
dlux wrote:Diablo 3 Console Inventory:
Wow, just look at that inventory list in the console version.
That's not a list. It's a gigantic picture grid with only one dimension.
A list can fit more than 3 things on the screen at once.
It's a list, just with huge icons for some reason. Which makes things even worse because it wastes even more space.
So it's a list inventory done horribly, horribly wrong. A "worst case scenario". That doesn't exactly make it an ideal example of why list inventories are universally bad.

If you show us the best list inventory ever done, and can convince everyone that it is bad, then you'll have a case.
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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by Brother None » July 14th, 2013, 3:59 am

I'm just keeping this thread locked for a while since this debate keeps getting too heated. I'll unlock it somewhere down the road.
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