Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by ffordesoon » June 7th, 2013, 10:21 pm

Hiver wrote:errmm...

crap.


first - no. nothing needs to be like that paultakeda.

second... damn it... i just saw the actual video from Inxile for the first time. All this time ive been going on screenshots. because my internets was crappy.

The things arent as bad as they seemed.
still ... several of my points will stand, regardless, but the overall reaction will be much less antagonistic.

but, i have 13 minutes to catch a bus so i have to run.
Things to do and distant cities to reach by morning.

:scrams:
Pfffffftahahahahahahaha!

I've done exactly this before, so I'm not saying Hiver's dumb or anything. It's just funny to see someone else do it for a change.
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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by dorkboy » June 7th, 2013, 11:13 pm

in the video i see a stack of 3 snake squeezins weighing 1.5 [foreign units]. not sure if that is 0.5 each or 1.5 each.

the carry capacities range from 90 fu to 120 fu. (not sure if 90 is supposed to be a weak character, or if 120 is exceptionally strong.)

assuming 0.5 per squeeze, that's 180 bottles of snake squeezins for a less-than-strong character.

even 60 bottles is quite a lot. :?
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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by Grohal » June 8th, 2013, 12:08 am

dorkboy wrote:in the video i see a stack of 3 snake squeezins weighing 1.5 [foreign units]. not sure if that is 0.5 each or 1.5 each.

the carry capacities range from 90 fu to 120 fu. (not sure if 90 is supposed to be a weak character, or if 120 is exceptionally strong.)

assuming 0.5 per squeeze, that's 180 bottles of snake squeezins for a less-than-strong character.

even 60 bottles is quite a lot. :?
And he'd have to be nacked - because armor and his other stuff has weight too. :mrgreen:
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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by Drool » June 8th, 2013, 12:19 am

Let's see. A fifth of alcohol is roughly 750ml, and weighs about 3.33 pounds (naturally, alcohols have different densities, but it's a good starting point). The image of the bottle of snake squeezins looks to be about a fifth. To be generous (and to keep the math simple), let's say it weighs 3 pounds. If it's 0.5 "units" per bottle, that means one "unit" is 6 pounds. That also means the dude who can carry 90 can carry 540 pounds (244.9 kg) and the person at 120 can carry 720 (326.5 kg).

If we assume it's 1.5 per bottle, then each unit is 2 pounds, which makes our carrying capacity 180 pounds and 240 pounds (81.6 and 108.8 kg) respectively. That's still quite a bit of weight, and far heavier than any figures I found for the average backpack weight for the military (admittedly, it was a quick search). I mean, I'm sure 180 pounds of booze is possible, but it does seem like a lot of weight to be lugging around the desert. Of course, this is also assuming he's carrying nothing but booze. No weapons, no ammo, no armor, nothing but sweet sweet booze.

So, if we assume the 90 enc. guy is average, and we assume 1.5 per bottle, then we're looking at characters with greater than average strength. Which I'm okay with for the most part; I don't mind fudging reality a little in the name of fun and playability. Of course, if it's 0.5 per bottle, and the 90 guy is supposed to be a weak character, then they're going a little too far into superhero land.
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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by McDougle » June 8th, 2013, 12:24 am

I'll be happy to use the first mod that lets me ignore the weight system (they make sense, but I preffer to loot the shit out of everything). 8-)
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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by Grohal » June 8th, 2013, 1:19 am

Drool wrote:Let's see. A fifth of alcohol is roughly 750ml, and weighs about 3.33 pounds (naturally, alcohols have different densities, but it's a good starting point). The image of the bottle of snake squeezins looks to be about a fifth. To be generous (and to keep the math simple), let's say it weighs 3 pounds. If it's 0.5 "units" per bottle, that means one "unit" is 6 pounds. That also means the dude who can carry 90 can carry 540 pounds (244.9 kg) and the person at 120 can carry 720 (326.5 kg).

If we assume it's 1.5 per bottle, then each unit is 2 pounds, which makes our carrying capacity 180 pounds and 240 pounds (81.6 and 108.8 kg) respectively. That's still quite a bit of weight, and far heavier than any figures I found for the average backpack weight for the military (admittedly, it was a quick search). I mean, I'm sure 180 pounds of booze is possible, but it does seem like a lot of weight to be lugging around the desert. Of course, this is also assuming he's carrying nothing but booze. No weapons, no ammo, no armor, nothing but sweet sweet booze.

So, if we assume the 90 enc. guy is average, and we assume 1.5 per bottle, then we're looking at characters with greater than average strength. Which I'm okay with for the most part; I don't mind fudging reality a little in the name of fun and playability. Of course, if it's 0.5 per bottle, and the 90 guy is supposed to be a weak character, then they're going a little too far into superhero land.
Superhero and booze - Hancock anyone? :mrgreen:
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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by Hiver » June 9th, 2013, 9:30 pm

- another job well done for me -

anyway,

*The 3D character screen actually pops up, animated. So its not a static part of the inventory screen.
- its still unnecessary and the weapons are still too big in that childish stupid way such... things, tend to be.

- If it was me i would scrap it all together. Except some bland visual representation it doesn't create or add or give anything worthwhile to the players. Undoubtedly there are some who like to watch their characters in that style and who go all "mwaaahh i want to be more immersed into my characters, bwaaaah - and i cant get that from "isometric or top-down PoV".

- go and play fucking bioware games.


*There are already illustrations of all items, which become visible when we click on any item in the list, looking like polariod photos.

- scrap the f`ing list and use those illustration or models (if you have them) - in the GRID.


*The grid was actually planned and their original idea.

- Now scrap this horrible list and make a grid and do it the way you wanted at first.


The list itself is bland. All the list shows is basic weight, type, value and damage. Only four stats and those can be displayed easily in other ways, as parts of the items actual icons, or as a part of those "pictures" or in some other way and in other space delegated to that, containing even more additional info.

None of it really makes the list necessary.

If i have a kind of a backpack and i open it to check whats inside it - i dont see a written list or a spreadsheet of items - i see the items themselves. The game should try to show that as best as it can be shown.


There are tabs for items types already. They can be made more functional. Explosives, utilities, medicine, tools, electronics, ammo, weapons, armor etc. etc.

Miscellaneous? How is that functional?

>Who in their right mind would ever invent a miscellaneous category and then just dump everything in it?
Do you have a miscellaneous part of your backpacks or luggage when you travel or hike?

- well then?

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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by Drool » June 9th, 2013, 10:09 pm

Hiver wrote:The list itself is bland. All the list shows is basic weight, type, value and damage.
We tend to call that "useful information". As pretty as pictures are, they don't give you that information.
If i have a kind of a backpack and i open it to check whats inside it - i dont see a written list or a spreadsheet of items - i see the items themselves. The game should try to show that as best as it can be shown.
Well, in that case, damage codes and value shouldn't be listed anywhere. I mean, I have a knife in my pocket, but I don't know how much I can sell it for until I try. I know how much I paid, but that doesn't tell me what it'll sell for. Likewise, there's no hovering little window that tells me how much it'll hurt if I jab someone with it. It also doesn't tell me how much it weighs (I just checked). I could probably guess by holding it, but all that tells me is "not much". Maybe a pound? Dunno. It's hard to estimate the weight of light things without comparing them to something else I know the weight of. Actually, about the only thing my knife tells me is who made it.

Hey, maybe we could eliminate ammo counters for guns, too. I mean, unless you have a transparent magazine or are counting, you aren't going to know how many bullets are in there. And if you have a box of ammo in your backpack, you probably aren't going to remember how many rounds are inside it. Oooo, I know! When you look at the box, it could just show a picture of the rounds and then you could count them yourself! I mean, I don't know about you, but when I put my finger on a box of bullets, a little window doesn't appear in the air telling me exactly how many bullets are in that box (or how much it weighs or how much it sells for or how much damage it does).

Yay realism!
Miscellaneous? How is that functional?
Well, see, when you're organizing an inventory, you can only have so many categories before the categories become a problem themselves. Sure, you could have a pistol, rifle, SMG, explosive, sniper, and heavy weapons tab, but most of the time, those tabs would be empty or have a single entry. Thus, you collapse it all down to "weapons". Since there are things that don't fall into any other category easily, or would fall into a category of one, you collapse them down into "miscellaneous". That's where you'd put maps and keys and snake squeezins and broken toasters and the like. Certainly seems more functional and useful than a "broken electronics" tab and an "operational electronics" tab or an "alcohol" tab or a "utility items not comprised of electronics or keys" tab.
Do you have a miscellaneous part of your backpacks or luggage when you travel or hike?
Do you have an armor tab? A weapons tab? Any "tabs" at all?
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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by ffordesoon » June 9th, 2013, 11:20 pm

There is actually a valid argument for a grid-based/slot-based inventory. It's a shame nobody's making that argument.
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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by RusBear » June 10th, 2013, 1:24 am

he-he, there is so much noise. And whether it makes sense? The concept already done.4-5 months to release (planned). You seriously consider that someone will remake something to please to our wishes? Though... color can and will change :)
And now it is serious: personally already all - will be equal to me there the list or a tetris - if my stock doesn't change in dependence that is dressed on the character, what to me a difference what does it look like? :)

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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by dorkboy » June 10th, 2013, 5:18 am

i prefer lists with both text and icons.

the whole "stats-on-list" thing is fine for crude sorting, but i like having the bulk of info displayed in a separate "window" that doesn't change location all the time - that way i know exactly where to look, and without using a ruler to separate the rows and columns. lookup tables are ok only if you have no other alternative...

and i quite like the colour scheme of the inventory.

i can conjure up images of green uis at will, and i'm more than happy not to do so.
another green ui? no thanks. ;)

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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by Hiver » June 10th, 2013, 6:40 am

Woolfe wrote: - snipped -
Hiver wrote:If i have a kind of a backpack and i open it to check whats inside it - i dont see a written list or a spreadsheet of items - i see the items themselves. The game should try to show that as best as it can be shown.
Drool wrote:Yay realism!
Hiver wrote: its not about that level of "realism" at all.
What does that imply if it doesn't imply "realism"? It is certainly the first thing I thought of when you said it. Can you explain that better?
What i meant by all that is that you dont just throw everything you carry into a chaotic heap in your backpack.
You do try to sort the items by their type. You dont mix clothes and food and you dont mix those with hygiene products, or your extra shoes or sneakers. You do try to arrange them.
And you put your cell phone in a pocket on a side, or other such electronic devices, chargers, batteries or whatever else you carry. Your map will be placed together with items that are appropriate (like compass, pencils, rulers, etc.)not just mixed with everything else without any sense. Your papers, documents?

And then he tells me "oh but you dont have tabs in your backpack"?
If that isnt insulting - what is?

Tabs in the game, in the inventory would represent some sanity in order of items in your imaginary backpack.
And they would be functional and useful.
As much as item icons would be more functional and useful then a bloody list.

PLUS they do create a sense of greater verisimilitude and believability, while the lists is a dry monotonous feature that UNNECESSARILY breaks the fourth wall - for nothing.

A game is an approximation.
Everything in it is an approximation, done visually or otherwise.
BUT THAT DOES NOT MEAN YOU CAN JUST APPROXIMATE EVERYTHING SO MUCH IT DOESNT MAKE ANY SENSE AT ALL or in a way that hurts or negatively affects all the features a game needs. Including verisimilitude and general believability.

Therefore a dose of realism is always needed and always present, however some duchebags like to imagine and pretend to the contrary which i find utterly laughable.

Only it is not that blind complete and utter simulationist realism drool felt was a good idea to put in my mouth. In addition to other strawman insults.
Information embedded in the image is a possibility, but it needs to be done well. You still need to have sort functionality, because part of the point of having a list is to be able to sort by it.
Honestly tho, aside from looks, what does it gain you. I question how much extra you could fit on the screen, because for the info embedded in the image to functional, it needs to be large enough to be easily read. You could "black" space directly behind the information, but then it may impinge on the looks area, which is of course subjective.
These four values are simple numbers which can simply be put into the corners of the picture.
But thats not an exclusive wish of mine, just one of the possibilities i mentioned.

If the character portraits section is removed, like in that half-assed inventory pic i did, then all the info can be shown there when you hover over any item or click on it. If any item has any additional info or a kind of history to it, like it sometimes happens with special items or weapons in fantasy games that can also fit there very nicely.

...

wow, i guess now someone will jump in to tell me this isnt a fantasy game? really?

You cannot imagine any item, not just some weapon, having additional info coming with it, something that is needed, a reminder of its specific options or purposes or whatever?

ffs...
My personal preference which, as you have eloquently pointed out, is what we are discussing here, is that the list be a single line. Drop the "icon" indicator in favour of descriptive names. Have more info on the line or make it customizable, so that I can have that info there.
To me that is entirely horrible. Worse option then current version. For all reasons i already explained.

To me a sort of inventory like Fallouts had is the optimum in elegance, usefulness, verisimilitude, believability and functionality - ( NO,it does not need to look exactly like Fallout - just have the same functionality).

You see the actual item at a glance and when you hover over it or click on it, all additional info is revealed in some space to the side of inventory itself - depending where you put that space or a small window.

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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by TΛPETRVE » June 10th, 2013, 6:52 am

Why the actual fuck don't we just include both and be done with it? Make a grid inventory that can be switched to a list overlay at the click of the almighty spacebar, or whatever. Both can be sorted by categories easily. Hell, throw in a bloody text search, just in case you don't find something quick enough.
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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by Zombra » June 10th, 2013, 8:27 am

Hiver wrote:PLUS they do create a sense of greater verisimilitude and believability, while the lists is a dry monotonous feature that UNNECESSARILY breaks the fourth wall - for nothing.

A game is an approximation.
Everything in it is an approximation, done visually or otherwise.
BUT THAT DOES NOT MEAN YOU CAN JUST APPROXIMATE EVERYTHING SO MUCH IT DOESNT MAKE ANY SENSE AT ALL or in a way that hurts or negatively affects all the features a game needs. Including verisimilitude and general believability.

Therefore a dose of realism is always needed and always present, however some duchebags like to imagine and pretend to the contrary which i find utterly laughable.
Personally, I disagree that icons are more "real" or believable than a list. On the contrary.

An inventory system is not the same thing as a "rummaging through a mysterious backpack simulator". Speaking realistically, I don't track things I'm carrying around by arranging them on a tray in front of me and looking at them. I just keep in mind what's in my pockets.

I never think to myself, "Oh, I have the square black and white thing and the round yellow thing and the small round silver thing with loose metallic protrusions." I think, "Yeah, I brought my bag with my wallet, lip balm and keys." In other words, I mentally track my carried inventory by function, not color or shape. And when I need to use my keys, I don't empty out my bag and pick them out visually. I already know they're in there, and I know how heavy they are and what they feel like. I just reach in and grab them. I only actually LOOK in my bag for something about 10% of the time (usually after a long period of not being able to find it with just my hand). Visual identification is the last resort of someone who doesn't know (have a mental list of) what's in there.

Therefore, I submit that a list is the more realistic, intuitive, and believable simulation of how real people track personal inventory.

As for how groups and businesses track inventory ... well, that's so obvious that I don't need to go into it here. :lol:
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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by Wile » June 10th, 2013, 10:23 am

Whether or not some inventory system is more realistic than other, is as far as I am concerned, complete and utter bullshit argument. Inventory should be easy to use and get the job done, not try to be some dumb realistic rucksack simulation. Grids and lists have both their pros and cons, but saying lists are out of bounds because consoles use lists, is nothing more than weapons grade bullshit. Sure, they are tiresome to wade through when you are carrying half of the worlds junk with you, but then again so are grids. Grids, however, allow you to see all your items all at once, or divide them to different tabs/bags for easier sorting. Then again, before you learn what item each icon represents, you'll be hovering over each item just so you can see if it is what you were looking for.

In the end, I really can't bring my self to care enough, which inventory type they go with. I'm fine either way, as long as it works and doesn't give me heartburns.

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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by ffordesoon » June 10th, 2013, 11:34 am

dorkboy wrote:@ffordesoon
the number of people stopping you: 0.
Heh, well, no. The number of people stopping me is actually one: me. Because I don't want a grid-based inventory. But I see what you're saying.

EDIT: @Wile:

Couldn't have said it better myself. "Realism" is utterly unimportant to a system as necessarily artificial as an inventory. We shouldn't be trying for it.
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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by paultakeda » June 10th, 2013, 11:49 am

Maybe I skimmed too fast, but did Hiver explain what happens when a tabbed grid has a tab that overflows? Does the grid grow or does this mean that the grids express a limit on top of weight/mass/volume?

UI-wise, what happens to a grid, especially if the grid limits the number of distinct items? Does this mean it scales so the icons have to scale?

ffordesoon: I did mention that grids work well for systems that implement tetris-style inventories, where the grids represent encumbrance units and items take up 1 to n grids. This works especially well when the intent is to drastically limit the number of items a character can carry. If a grid system is simply a different way of viewing a list then choosing between the two depends largely on the type of information one wants to convey at a glance.

Lists provide an ability to do quick comparisons on the metrics of an item. Grids let you see quickly the full picture of an inventory; this is where tabs don't work for me: the point of a grid is to give you an entire view of inventory and tabbing defeats that point.

Lists may not show everything, particularly tabbed lists, but the ability to sort and filter based on the columns in a list allows one to rapidly go through a large inventory full of similar items. Here, the problem with a grid is having several similar looking icons and whatever distinction they may have cannot be conveyed by a picture with whatever limited symbols overlaying that picture.

For instance, you might have two SMGs that look exactly alike except one has an internal modification. In order to know this on a grid there might be a marker of some sort but what that marker represents specifically would require a mouse hover. A list can display the modification and the effect of that modification, plus allow the player to sort the entire list by a modification and/or effect.

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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by Grohal » June 10th, 2013, 2:47 pm

Wile wrote:Whether or not some inventory system is more realistic than other, is as far as I am concerned, complete and utter bullshit argument. Inventory should be easy to use and get the job done, not try to be some dumb realistic rucksack simulation. Grids and lists have both their pros and cons, but saying lists are out of bounds because consoles use lists, is nothing more than weapons grade bullshit. Sure, they are tiresome to wade through when you are carrying half of the worlds junk with you, but then again so are grids. Grids, however, allow you to see all your items all at once, or divide them to different tabs/bags for easier sorting. Then again, before you learn what item each icon represents, you'll be hovering over each item just so you can see if it is what you were looking for.

In the end, I really can't bring my self to care enough, which inventory type they go with. I'm fine either way, as long as it works and doesn't give me heartburns.
Good post that. :)
The inventory won't break the game for me, as long as story and npcs have the expected awesomeness. :mrgreen:
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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by Woolfe » June 10th, 2013, 5:53 pm

Hiver wrote:
Woolfe wrote: What does that imply if it doesn't imply "realism"? It is certainly the first thing I thought of when you said it. Can you explain that better?
What i meant by all that is that you dont just throw everything you carry into a chaotic heap in your backpack.
You do try to sort the items by their type. You dont mix clothes and food and you dont mix those with hygiene products, or your extra shoes or sneakers. You do try to arrange them.
And you put your cell phone in a pocket on a side, or other such electronic devices, chargers, batteries or whatever else you carry. Your map will be placed together with items that are appropriate (like compass, pencils, rulers, etc.)not just mixed with everything else without any sense. Your papers, documents?
Ah Gotcha... that makes sense now. But that makes sense whether it is a list or icons. I thought the Tabs they have, are essentially doing that. I thought they had tabs... bugger now I have to have a look. Yeah its got favourites, all, weapons, armour, Ammo, misc, etc... Depending on how much gear you actually find(the suggestion has been that there won't be lots of junk equipment), those tabs "should" be acceptable.
Hiver wrote:PLUS they do create a sense of greater verisimilitude and believability, while the lists is a dry monotonous feature that UNNECESSARILY breaks the fourth wall - for nothing.
That's a matter of opinion. I don't think it breaks the fourth wall at all. If it is breaking the 4th wall, then you should never be able to get that "extra" info at all.
Hiver wrote: Therefore a dose of realism is always needed and always present,

Only it is not that blind complete and utter simulationist realism drool felt was a good idea to put in my mouth. In addition to other strawman insults.
Indeed, realism is not required. Plausibility is what is required. Simulation realism is not always fun or conducive to gameplay.
However as with all things this is a subjective element.
Hiver wrote:
Information embedded in the image is a possibility, but it needs to be done well. You still need to have sort functionality, because part of the point of having a list is to be able to sort by it.
Honestly tho, aside from looks, what does it gain you. I question how much extra you could fit on the screen, because for the info embedded in the image to functional, it needs to be large enough to be easily read. You could "black" space directly behind the information, but then it may impinge on the looks area, which is of course subjective.
These four values are simple numbers which can simply be put into the corners of the picture.
But thats not an exclusive wish of mine, just one of the possibilities i mentioned.

If the character portraits section is removed, like in that half-assed inventory pic i did, then all the info can be shown there when you hover over any item or click on it. If any item has any additional info or a kind of history to it, like it sometimes happens with special items or weapons in fantasy games that can also fit there very nicely.
I don't see the portrait section as a big issue, other than that it takes up usable real estate, and could be positioned better in relation to other items.
I really dislike having to hover or click to get any useful information. That's fine when I want to know the details of an item, but when I am generally looking at things I want some basic data so I can sort it out. Assuming I just picked up a bunch of gear I want to be able quickly see at a glance, what I can dump and what I should keep.
That's really annoying to do if you have to click on each item. So for me that functionality element is important, as it will affect the "fun" factor of the game. It really isn't a massive issue tho. So long as I could do some basic sorting, I wouldn't really care if it was in an "image" format. I do think the list is better because I find it quicker to manage, and the functionality there is more important than the aesthetics.
I also think the list is more in keeping with the original Wasteland style, and the "text" heavy concepts associated with it. But this is secondary to the functionality element.
Hiver wrote:To me a sort of inventory like Fallouts had is the optimum in elegance, usefulness, verisimilitude, believability and functionality - ( NO,it does not need to look exactly like Fallout - just have the same functionality).

You see the actual item at a glance and when you hover over it or click on it, all additional info is revealed in some space to the side of inventory itself - depending where you put that space or a small window.
Like all things, you get used to what you are playing with. I don't recall FO 1+2 inventory being a chore. But I don't really remember it that positively either. I am playing FO3 again at the moment, and again the inventory isn't a chore. In fact the only spot it is a chore, is when trading. Because that IS a dumb list. No sorting at all. So I have to scroll through bucketloads of stuff to get to the few items I want to dump (Mines and Grenades anyone).

Both methods work, having extra sort functions in both is what I really wanted, so that if I want to identify what weighs the most in my pack to dump it, or what weapon is the "best" to use etc.
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Hiver
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Re: Update 29: How many squeezins can I fit in my bag?

Post by Hiver » June 11th, 2013, 1:47 am

paultakeda wrote:Maybe I skimmed too fast, but did Hiver explain what happens when a tabbed grid has a tab that overflows? Does the grid grow or does this mean that the grids express a limit on top of weight/mass/volume?
There should be no limit to the grid. It doesnt need to be infinite but big enough so you can never really fill it completely - in case there are to be many, many, many items to carry. Number of items should not be limited by their size. Only by their weight. (and weight limit gives a means to design a grid that is big enough never to get completely full)

So there is no tetris stacking involved at all.

Lists provide an ability to do quick comparisons on the metrics of an item. Grids let you see quickly the full picture of an inventory; this is where tabs don't work for me: the point of a grid is to give you an entire view of inventory and tabbing defeats that point.
No it doesnt. There is no need to see literally every item you have in one space or a window.
Tabs just make things easier to find.
For instance, you might have two SMGs that look exactly alike except one has an internal modification. In order to know this on a grid there might be a marker of some sort but what that marker represents specifically would require a mouse hover. A list can display the modification and the effect of that modification, plus allow the player to sort the entire list by a modification and/or effect.
If an item has a modification i suppose it would be visible on the item itself so seeing a pic or an icon of that item should immediately tell you if its an item with something extra. Then you click and see the data of it.

Seems very easy and quick to me.

Woolfe wrote: Ah Gotcha... that makes sense now. But that makes sense whether it is a list or icons. I thought the Tabs they have, are essentially doing that. I thought they had tabs... bugger now I have to have a look. Yeah its got favourites, all, weapons, armour, Ammo, misc, etc... Depending on how much gear you actually find(the suggestion has been that there won't be lots of junk equipment), those tabs "should" be acceptable.
They have a few tabs. I think there should be more. Tabs for item types.
So you can take a look at your weapons or medicine items or tools and then sort those by value or weight.
- when I am generally looking at things I want some basic data so I can sort it out. Assuming I just picked up a bunch of gear I want to be able quickly see at a glance, what I can dump and what I should keep.
Well, basic data can be embedded in the picture or on the side of the icon.
If there is a tab to sort items by value it all becomes even easier and quicker.
Like all things, you get used to what you are playing with. I don't recall FO 1+2 inventory being a chore. But I don't really remember it that positively either.
The only problems it had were the limited visual representation since items were visible in a single column you had to scroll through. Due to weight limit that list was never that long and all items were relatively quickly available and due to superior icon art immediately visible and clear. Plus the art was really in line with the rest of the game and so enhanced the overall sense of verisimilitude, believability and atmosphere of the whole thing.
I am playing FO3 again at the moment, and again the inventory isn't a chore. In fact the only spot it is a chore, is when trading. Because that IS a dumb list. No sorting at all. So I have to scroll through bucketloads of stuff to get to the few items I want to dump (Mines and Grenades anyone).
That inventory always forced me to scroll and spin my wheel several times every time i opened it. It required scrolling and scrolling all the bloody time. For everything. Unless if that item was by shear chance at the top of the list and so immediately visible.

And then when you switch to other types of items you had to scroll all over again.

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