Ask inXile Thread & About This Forum

The place to ask detailed technicaly questions about the crowdsourced assets experiment, and to post and discuss WIPs if you so desire.

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d-Koy
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Re: Ask inXile Thread & About This Forum

Post by d-Koy » December 10th, 2012, 12:43 pm

snowball wrote:Hi everyone,

I would really love to participate in creating assets for Wasteland 2. I have been able to gather experience in modelling for a 2D based game. Of course everything that counts for 2D game assets is the rendered image and you do not have to worry how will your object look like from different angles, different lighting and so on, so I have a basic question: does the object need to be monolithic, or can the object consist of many separate meshes grouped together?
You can and should break up your asset for a few reasons... if they do not share a material, if they are getting to be very high poly, if they can be rearranged per instance to generate a sense of variety, etc.
The "grouping" should be done as part of the prefab assembly so that we can make for some variety when the prop is placed in a scene.

Prefabs are really powerful and used heavily in our game. Please refer to Unity's documentation on setting those up if you are not already familiar...

http://docs.unity3d.com/Documentation/M ... efabs.html
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Re: Ask inXile Thread & About This Forum

Post by Trideka » December 10th, 2012, 1:08 pm

My Shanty Shack model will likely be split into 2 materials, just because the texture space is getting very limited. Don't want to compromise too much with sub par textures.. but I'll be splitting more things off into prefabs I guess. Should work. =)

My question is, what material/shader should we primarily use? I guess I'm just wondering whether spec maps are needed, or if just normal/diffuse is enough.

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Character work?

Post by Torch » December 10th, 2012, 1:11 pm

Hey all, I was hoping to find out if there will be any characters/character assets that may be put forward for the game, or if the developers will be asking for character contributions later, unless its strictly environment/prop work? Thanks :)

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Re: Ask inXile Thread & About This Forum

Post by Piflik » December 10th, 2012, 2:46 pm

I was just gently nudged towards this thread after writing a question filled eMail to d-Koy (methinks) and I thought I'd share the shader I wrote for my submissions. It is an extension of the built in cutout shader to work with multiple textures: Diffuse (Alpha for cutout), Specular (Alpha for Glossiness), Normals and Illumination. Sliders to fine-tune specularity, glossiness and illumination strength. Other answers to my questions are also answered here in the thread.

http://piflik.de/stuff/Wasteland/AlphaT ... ete.shader

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Re: Ask inXile Thread & About This Forum

Post by McDougle » December 10th, 2012, 2:57 pm

A (slightly altered) repost from this thread: http://wasteland.inxile-entertainment.c ... =22&t=2903

Will Inxile(read you) still "work" on the models if they are chosen, but not "perfect"?

They said something about altering textures, but what about rigging, changing a mesh to some extent, enhance it or make multiple versions of it(or recreate the butched normal map etc.)?
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Re: Ask inXile Thread & About This Forum

Post by Zoltan » December 11th, 2012, 4:23 am

Hi guys

Got a few questions about the concept batches, here they are:

1. Just being curious, are you guys considering getting models suiting batch 1 even if it`s "batch 2 time" already?
It`s close to batch 1 "deadline" and I only heard of this yesterday, but I would love to make more than just one model out of those batch 1 concepts, but it`s very unlikely that I can do more than 1 till Wednesday u see :/

2. How many Batches should we expect?

3. Will there be any character work later on or you guys only looking into getting environment models?

Cheers

Z

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Rock Sizes?

Post by Da_BoS » December 11th, 2012, 1:16 pm

Hi :)

I need to know how detailed you want the rocks and how big or small (handsized or can be lifted with two hands or large boulders lol) or if u want them in clusters? I'd like some feedback as to whether you want highly detailed rocks or more cell shaded kinda style?

Thanks

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Re: Rock Sizes?

Post by Gizmo » December 11th, 2012, 3:47 pm

Da_BoS wrote:Hi :)

I need to know how detailed you want the rocks and how big or small (handsized or can be lifted with two hands or large boulders lol) or if u want them in clusters? I'd like some feedback as to whether you want highly detailed rocks or more cell shaded kinda style?

Thanks
I'm not with InXile, but I can say that the size of the rock probably doesn't matter, as they can re-size the rock to suit. As for detail... They ask that each rock be about 500 triangles.

(To get a triangle count in Blender 2.5/6x, enter 'edit mode', enter 'face select', and the tri count will be displayed in the top right.)

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Re: Rock Sizes?

Post by Da_BoS » December 11th, 2012, 4:15 pm

Gizmo wrote:
Da_BoS wrote:Hi :)

I need to know how detailed you want the rocks and how big or small (handsized or can be lifted with two hands or large boulders lol) or if u want them in clusters? I'd like some feedback as to whether you want highly detailed rocks or more cell shaded kinda style?

Thanks
I'm not with InXile, but I can say that the size of the rock probably doesn't matter, as they can re-size the rock to suit. As for detail... They ask that each rock be about 500 triangles.

(To get a triangle count in Blender 2.5/6x, enter 'edit mode', enter 'face select', and the tri count will be displayed in the top right.)
Thanks Gizmo and for how to find Tri-Count in Blender, would ave been my next question I was gonna ask, thanks again :)

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question

Post by Verafx81 » December 11th, 2012, 5:42 pm

About the Satellite: is it meant to move or is it a static object?
also what kind of maps are needed for the texturing? color is obvious but do you want a bump, displacement, or normal? does it need anything like a specular, diffuse or reflection map?

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Re: Ask inXile Thread & About This Forum

Post by thepapercut » December 11th, 2012, 5:57 pm

well I now have a new question, are you guys fully disqualifying late entries? I ask this as today I had some errors with my computer. The aftermath being my water tower asset file got corrupt in the processes and I have to redo everything so I probably won't make the deadline of this first batch of assets.

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Re: Ask inXile Thread & About This Forum

Post by d-Koy » December 12th, 2012, 11:01 am

Trideka wrote:My Shanty Shack model will likely be split into 2 materials, just because the texture space is getting very limited. Don't want to compromise too much with sub par textures.. but I'll be splitting more things off into prefabs I guess. Should work. =)

My question is, what material/shader should we primarily use? I guess I'm just wondering whether spec maps are needed, or if just normal/diffuse is enough.
Multiple materials are ok, please keep it in check with the scale of the prop though. A wooden crate does not need 5 materials :P I could see a shanty shack having two materials. Not a huge deal.
And you've got the right idea, break them out into multiple meshes and join them together in unity as a prefab. (As such, avoid changing material IDs on the faces a "surface" in your model, instead break it up by elements.)

Normal and diffuse maps will be enough to get through the gate, beyond that it's your call on the textures you want to generate and the shader/material you want to use. (The included "cutout" material assignment was just to demonstrate how an alpha mask can live in the diffuse map for quick and easy masking.)
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Re: Character work?

Post by d-Koy » December 12th, 2012, 11:07 am

Torch wrote:Hey all, I was hoping to find out if there will be any characters/character assets that may be put forward for the game, or if the developers will be asking for character contributions later, unless its strictly environment/prop work? Thanks :)
There has been discussion about expanding this effort into character work, though this does present some special challenges.

Character work is so unique from game to game, and is often very much responsible for defining the unique qualities of a game. If we contract thorough Unity Store for assets like these and then those assets are effectively immediately available to the public for purchase, we would lose a fair bit of control over our IP. There are also issues of bone setups and animations, how it would integrate into our systems, etc.

That said, there are certainly some aspects of character work that might lend itself to this kind of sourcing, so stay tuned and we will see where this goes.
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Re: Ask inXile Thread & About This Forum

Post by d-Koy » December 12th, 2012, 11:13 am

Piflik wrote:I was just gently nudged towards this thread after writing a question filled eMail to d-Koy (methinks) and I thought I'd share the shader I wrote for my submissions. It is an extension of the built in cutout shader to work with multiple textures: Diffuse (Alpha for cutout), Specular (Alpha for Glossiness), Normals and Illumination. Sliders to fine-tune specularity, glossiness and illumination strength. Other answers to my questions are also answered here in the thread.

http://piflik.de/stuff/Wasteland/AlphaT ... ete.shader
Nice! Thanks for the bump :)
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Re: Ask inXile Thread & About This Forum

Post by d-Koy » December 12th, 2012, 11:21 am

McDougle wrote:A (slightly altered) repost from this thread: http://wasteland.inxile-entertainment.c ... =22&t=2903

Will Inxile(read you) still "work" on the models if they are chosen, but not "perfect"?

They said something about altering textures, but what about rigging, changing a mesh to some extent, enhance it or make multiple versions of it(or recreate the butched normal map etc.)?
Short answer... yes. Like any thing you buy in an asset store, there are often small tweaks you can make that will allow the thing to work a little better in a production. Whether it's a style issue, performance improvement, or alterations to generate variety, we do sometimes need to make a change.

But honestly, it's our hope and dream that we don't have to change a thing. We don't have the time to micromanage every prop. This is why this is such a great opportunity for us to really connect with the community beyond just shopping around in the store. I can think of no other opportunity outside of straight up contracting services or mod communities that afford this kind of interaction for a production team.

Thanks again for getting involved!
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Re: Ask inXile Thread & About This Forum

Post by d-Koy » December 12th, 2012, 11:31 am

Zoltan wrote:Hi guys

Got a few questions about the concept batches, here they are:

1. Just being curious, are you guys considering getting models suiting batch 1 even if it`s "batch 2 time" already?
It`s close to batch 1 "deadline" and I only heard of this yesterday, but I would love to make more than just one model out of those batch 1 concepts, but it`s very unlikely that I can do more than 1 till Wednesday u see :/
Yes, we are still going to be accepting submissions from batch one after the deadline. But there are advantages to getting it in on time. Will elaborate more on that later. I was just writing Gizmo about this and said:

The deadline is a bit short I agree, I expect to extend the next round to double the time available. We didn't know what level of participation to expect right out of the gate, and so with this first round closing we will be making a few adjustments to our formula.
Know that, if the deadline passes, you can still submit your prop. The deadline is there for a few reasons. We wanted to keep the prop list turning over pretty quickly mostly. It does not designate a closing gate on submission.
Zoltan wrote: 2. How many Batches should we expect?
This depends on you, the community. Obviously if participation falls off completely, it wouldn't make much sense for us to keep posting requests. That being said, this is a full production, and we have a great many needs. The type of requests will change over time as we branch out into other areas of the game's production. So keep them coming in and we will keep asking for them :)
Zoltan wrote: 3. Will there be any character work later on or you guys only looking into getting environment models?

Cheers

Z
Just commented on this, good question...
d-Koy wrote:
Torch wrote:Hey all, I was hoping to find out if there will be any characters/character assets that may be put forward for the game, or if the developers will be asking for character contributions later, unless its strictly environment/prop work? Thanks :)
There has been discussion about expanding this effort into character work, though this does present some special challenges.

Character work is so unique from game to game, and is often very much responsible for defining the unique qualities of a game. If we contract thorough Unity Store for assets like these and then those assets are effectively immediately available to the public for purchase, we would lose a fair bit of control over our IP. There are also issues of bone setups and animations, how it would integrate into our systems, etc.

That said, there are certainly some aspects of character work that might lend itself to this kind of sourcing, so stay tuned and we will see where this goes.
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Re: Rock Sizes?

Post by d-Koy » December 12th, 2012, 11:36 am

Da_BoS wrote:
Gizmo wrote:
Da_BoS wrote:Hi :)

I need to know how detailed you want the rocks and how big or small (handsized or can be lifted with two hands or large boulders lol) or if u want them in clusters? I'd like some feedback as to whether you want highly detailed rocks or more cell shaded kinda style?

Thanks
I'm not with InXile, but I can say that the size of the rock probably doesn't matter, as they can re-size the rock to suit. As for detail... They ask that each rock be about 500 triangles.

(To get a triangle count in Blender 2.5/6x, enter 'edit mode', enter 'face select', and the tri count will be displayed in the top right.)
Thanks Gizmo and for how to find Tri-Count in Blender, would ave been my next question I was gonna ask, thanks again :)
Thanks Gizmo, you are correct! +1
We can, and will constantly, scale non-scale specific props like rocks and plants in a scene. This is the reason for the seemingly higher tri-count per rock, so as to avoid a highly polygonal silhouette when used in a big way. We can always knock it down in count if we find that is is less useful as a big mesh.
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Re: question

Post by d-Koy » December 12th, 2012, 11:45 am

Verafx81 wrote:About the Satellite: is it meant to move or is it a static object?
also what kind of maps are needed for the texturing? color is obvious but do you want a bump, displacement, or normal? does it need anything like a specular, diffuse or reflection map?
It will most likely be a static prop... if we want to make it rotate later on we can cut it and animate it directly in-engine. If you want, you can cut it yourself at good pivot points, I wont complain. I like this anyway because it allows me to make subtle shifts to the composition of the geometry in-engine (if you break the components into separate elements and attach as part of the prefab).

Maps should at least include a diffuse and normal. Any additional maps are welcome and appreciated. If for performance reasons we need to strip down the material, we can do that toward the end of our Beta. It's really more about what you want to take the time to produce and include as part of your package. More maps tend to make a prop more attractive (if they are well done and not just the result of a cheap quick and easy filter), and thus will help you sell more copies of the prop down the road :)
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Re: Ask inXile Thread & About This Forum

Post by d-Koy » December 12th, 2012, 11:47 am

thepapercut wrote:well I now have a new question, are you guys fully disqualifying late entries? I ask this as today I had some errors with my computer. The aftermath being my water tower asset file got corrupt in the processes and I have to redo everything so I probably won't make the deadline of this first batch of assets.
Answered, see earlier above, no worries.
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Re: question

Post by Xarek » December 13th, 2012, 2:55 am

d-Koy wrote:
Verafx81 wrote:Maps should at least include a diffuse and normal. Any additional maps are welcome and appreciated. If for performance reasons we need to strip down the material, we can do that toward the end of our Beta. It's really more about what you want to take the time to produce and include as part of your package. More maps tend to make a prop more attractive (if they are well done and not just the result of a cheap quick and easy filter), and thus will help you sell more copies of the prop down the road :)
I didn't include a normal with my submitted prop :( I don't want to include one just for the sake of it as I don't have time at the moment to make a decent one.

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