The Bard's Tale IV Update 58: Director's Cut Launch Announcement

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The Bard's Tale IV Update 58: Director's Cut Launch Announcement

Post by whippleshuffle » July 11th, 2019, 6:27 am

Image

We’re happy to announce that The Bard’s Tale IV: Director’s Cut will be arriving digitally on Windows, Mac, Linux, Xbox One, Xbox Game Pass (PC and Xbox), and PlayStation 4 on August 27!

More info available on the Kickstarter update: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/in ... ts/2562232

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Re: The Bard's Tale IV Update 58: Director's Cut Launch Announcement

Post by _noblesse_oblige_ » July 11th, 2019, 12:21 pm

Quite a few Linux and macOS users still upset in the KS comments section. The long wait for the game on their platforms of choice has definitely eroded trust. Technically, Linux is also my platform of choice, but based on what I saw from the earlier Barrows Deep release, I would be fine if this game never made it to other platforms. The only thing that might be able to change my mind at this point would be if the so-called "Legacy Mode" turned out to be an actual Bard's Tale game. But, on https://www.inxile-entertainment.com/bardstale4?lang=en, there is only a passing mention of this "Legacy Mode" with no actual detail - what's in this mode? Can we create a party of 6 characters at the outset of the game and skip all the NPCs in the party and mercenary token stuff? Is Skara Brae no longer a port, but back on the plains like it was in the originals? And it is going to be oriented in the correct direction again? Are we going to be able to recruit halflings and half-orcs as party members again? Are we getting back the original classes? Can the game be played entirely with the keyboard? Are we going to be able to perform combat quickly in an abstract space rather than wasting time shuffling characters around on a 2D grid? Are we going to see more riddle puzzles instead of all those physical manipulation puzzles?
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Re: The Bard's Tale IV Update 58: Director's Cut Launch Announcement

Post by svdp » July 12th, 2019, 1:55 pm

Edit: Well, I saw it coming and knew I took a risk, but It was just too annoying for me to let it slip. Anyhow, new complaint, so I'd rather remove my post than let the mods do the cleanup.

Guess this is how it's played, heh, guys? Congrats.
Last edited by svdp on July 16th, 2019, 11:32 am, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: The Bard's Tale IV Update 58: Director's Cut Launch Announcement

Post by svdp » July 12th, 2019, 2:01 pm

As for the announcement/Inxile: glad to see you're releasing it in august! Rumors were, we'd have to wait until the 20th+ of September. It's great news, and hopefully the introduction goes more smoothly now! I'm looking forward to replay it from scratch, and I'll be sure to check out the new gear, weapons and dungeon!

It was already a great game, and I'm looking forward to the improvements and expansion in this DC version!

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Re: The Bard's Tale IV Update 58: Director's Cut Launch Announcement

Post by Drool » July 12th, 2019, 3:44 pm

svdp wrote:
July 12th, 2019, 1:55 pm
Just grow up and move on. Certainly there are games out there that you do approve of. Maybe. Go play those, and have some fun, instead of repeating your frustrations ad nauseam.
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Re: The Bard's Tale IV Update 58: Director's Cut Launch Announcement

Post by _noblesse_oblige_ » July 12th, 2019, 3:48 pm

svdp wrote:
July 12th, 2019, 1:55 pm
Noblesse... on it about it yet again, are you? You're SO hung up about it, it's mindboggling. Just move on dude. There is no point in endless complaining
What's your problem? If you don't like my commentary, then just ignore it. Ranting at me isn't going to change my desire to see inXile deliver the piece of software that they said they were going to deliver. By ranting at me are you hoping to get bonus points from inXile, promoted to moderator, or something?

inXile said they were going to make BT4. Some of us would still like to see them follow through on that, since that's what we backed this project for. Maybe this "Legacy Mode" for the Barrows Deep game will bring them closer to doing that. If no other information is forthcoming in the meantime, then I guess we'll wait and see.
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Re: The Bard's Tale IV Update 58: Director's Cut Launch Announcement

Post by svdp » July 13th, 2019, 10:14 am

_noblesse_oblige_ wrote:
July 12th, 2019, 3:48 pm
svdp wrote:
July 12th, 2019, 1:55 pm
Noblesse... on it about it yet again, are you? You're SO hung up about it, it's mindboggling. Just move on dude. There is no point in endless complaining
What's your problem? If you don't like my commentary, then just ignore it. Ranting at me isn't going to change my desire to see inXile deliver the piece of software that they said they were going to deliver. By ranting at me are you hoping to get bonus points from inXile, promoted to moderator, or something?

inXile said they were going to make BT4. Some of us would still like to see them follow through on that, since that's what we backed this project for. Maybe this "Legacy Mode" for the Barrows Deep game will bring them closer to doing that. If no other information is forthcoming in the meantime, then I guess we'll wait and see.
I think I was pretty explicit what the problem was. And don't give me that "you're an Inxile-shill" crap, that's just weak. I'm saying your incessant whining about the same thing over and over is annoying as hell, because it is. Period. You've been at them for almost a year, and you're STILL making the exact same comments a year later. Grow the f- up. You ask those questions, well knowing the answers, and thus those questions are not posed genuinely. You know that, and I know that, as said. You don't have to wait and see, the DC will never encompass all the things you want it to encompass, and because you're not moving on with this, you'll be right back whining here again, after the DC, as if you couldn't have guessed. It's so unbelievable... immature.

Yes, I can ignore your commentary, just like you can with mine. You don't, and I don't. So your point is moot. A free speech argument works both ways, after all: if you can say what you want, I can as well. If you feel you're entitled to keep going at it, I can can keep calling you out on it. It's not meant to change your desire, because you're so obnoxiously fixated that you'll never change your ranting unless Inxile does exactly what you want, which ain't happening. It's meant to call you out on your immature behavior.

I'm also not namecalling or personally attacking you, btw, by calling you a whiner, because people that whine are whiners - that's inherent logic, and this is the definition of whining:

"to complain or express disappointment or unhappiness repeatedly" (Cambridge Dictionary)

And you fall squarely into that, so I'm just being factual by calling you a whiner.

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Re: The Bard's Tale IV Update 58: Director's Cut Launch Announcement

Post by svdp » July 13th, 2019, 10:16 am

Drool wrote:
July 12th, 2019, 3:44 pm
svdp wrote:
July 12th, 2019, 1:55 pm
Just grow up and move on. Certainly there are games out there that you do approve of. Maybe. Go play those, and have some fun, instead of repeating your frustrations ad nauseam.
When Mister Pot met Master Kettle, he was heard to remark on Master Kettle's hue.
Mr. Kettle should show some mettle. :mrgreen:

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Re: The Bard's Tale IV Update 58: Director's Cut Launch Announcement

Post by _noblesse_oblige_ » July 13th, 2019, 11:35 am

svdp wrote:
July 13th, 2019, 10:14 am
I think I was pretty explicit what the problem was. And don't give me that "you're an Inxile-shill" crap, that's just weak.
I didn't suggest and am not suggesting that you are inXile shill. Was just wondering what your motives are for making such a big public stink about my comments. What's in it for you?
svdp wrote:
July 13th, 2019, 10:14 am
You ask those questions, well knowing the answers, and thus those questions are not posed genuinely.
Wrong. Given past experience with inXile ignoring feedback from those familiar with the original series, I can guess what some of the answers might be. But, the Barrows Deep game also didn't do so well and perhaps inXile has learned some humility from it. Maybe they're more willing to fix past errors now. Doubtful, but we'll see. Hope springs eternal....
svdp wrote:
July 13th, 2019, 10:14 am
Yes, I can ignore your commentary, just like you can with mine.
Yes, and my commentary wasn't attacking you personally. Yours is attacking me personally. I have no problem with publicly defending myself against public attacks. You're creating a lot of irrelevant noise in a thread that is supposed to be about the content of Update 58 from the Kickstarter. My questions to inXile still stand.
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Re: The Bard's Tale IV Update 58: Director's Cut Launch Announcement

Post by svdp » July 13th, 2019, 11:28 pm

"I didn't suggest and am not suggesting that you are inXile shill. Was just wondering what your motives are for making such a big public stink about my comments. What's in it for you?"
It's basically saying the same thing, in a more roundabout way: it presumes, or at least insinuates, that I have ulterior motives, in which my responses to you are meant to give me some benefit from Inxile. Another way of saying I'm a shill, thus - you just didn't explicitly claim I was being payed by Inxile. And then you claim you're not "attacking" me. No, you are. You're just doing it in an evasive manner, by insinuation. At least I'm being open about it: I call you a whiner because, according to the dictionary definition you ARE. I don't need any insinuations. I'm also not questioning your integrity in your feelings of frustration: I believe your frustration is genuine, only your way of disguising them as mere questions is disingenuous. You were being more honest about it in your other posts. But I'm giving you the slack that you actually mean what you're saying and feel frustrated and disillusioned. I don't doubt that. It doesn't change the fact you're whiny and immature, but no doubt you're being honest in your frustrated feelings.

This in contrast with you, who basically says - or at least implies - I'm not meaning what I say, but that I have ulterior motives. No. I'm saying what I say because I genuinely believe and feel them as well. Your insinuations are not only unfounded and off the mark, but rather the opposite is true: I've actually got reprimanded by the moderators because you - or people like you - have been complaining about my negative remarks about their posts - even though they themselves feel entitled to be negative about Inxile or moderators. Free speech adepts that like to criticize but muffle another who is critical of them - speak of hypocrites. Bet you didn't know that, huh? So far for your "hoping to get a moderator position". No, I'm risking another reprimand.

It's pretty simple, and I've been rather explicit and straightforward in why I write what I write to you. It's just as I say: I don't like whiners. There is a thin line between making a valid complaint once or twice, and keep repeating ones' personal preferences over and over again. Some of it done in an extremely rude and self-centered way. (I'm not going to look it up, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt you kept your posts polite). But regardless: no one likes whiners, and at a certain moment, an adult shows some maturity and moves on. Only spoiled brats - or someone with that mentality - keeps going on and on about it, and will not stop until he gets everything he wants.

In any case: the fact you feel the need to question my motives already is a tell-tale sign, and not a good one if you're talking about being genuine. I'm saying the things I say, because I think they're true and are warranted to be said. Nothing more, nothing less.

And btw, I'm not targeting "your comments" (or you) specifically, rest assured. I've done the same with other posters who were also incessantly whining and complaining ad nauseam. As said, it's nothing personal, it's just that you are one of the whiners, and you were the very first with a whiny post I noticed in this thread - you actually *started* the thread with it.

"Wrong. Given past experience with inXile ignoring feedback from those familiar with the original series, I can guess what some of the answers might be. But, the Barrows Deep game also didn't do so well and perhaps inXile has learned some humility from it. Maybe they're more willing to fix past errors now. Doubtful, but we'll see. Hope springs eternal...."
No, I don't buy that. NO-ONE is that idiotic or naive to think Inxile is going to drastically change their game in the DC like you want it, because you were whining about your personal preferences in the fora. Or do you really expect anyone to believe you're *actually* thinking they might have replaced Skara Brae being in the right direction in the plains again and not being a port anymore, because you were whining about it in the comments?

You don't believe one iota of that yourself, so don't give me that crap as if you genuinely believe that to be an actual, real possibility. You're neither that naive, nor that stupid - I'm actually giving you credit in this, thus. But it DOES make your questions disingenuous. The main purpose of your questions was to express - once again - your complaints. Nothing more, nothing less. The fact that they were thinly veiled as questions, does nothing to mitigate the fact that the main purpose *was* complaining about things that are your pet-peeves.


"Yours is attacking me personally."
No, I'm being factual, unless you claim you don't fit that dictionary definition?

About noise: you're one to talk. If you cut out the repetitive whining, almost nothing is left.

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Re: The Bard's Tale IV Update 58: Director's Cut Launch Announcement

Post by _noblesse_oblige_ » July 14th, 2019, 2:08 pm

"I didn't suggest and am not suggesting that you are inXile shill. Was just wondering what your motives are for making such a big public stink about my comments. What's in it for you?"
It's basically saying the same thing, in a more roundabout way: it presumes, or at least insinuates, that I have ulterior motives, in which my responses to you are meant to give me some benefit from Inxile. Another way of saying I'm a shill, thus - you just didn't explicitly claim I was being payed by Inxile.
I didn't explicitly claim that you were being paid by inXile because I have no idea whether you are or not. I also have no idea why you're so keen on calling me names, like "whiny" and "immature". Could be trolling, could be shilling, could be personal animosity towards me from some past argument in these fora. No idea. Hence my question: what's in it for you? A question which you still haven't answered.
I've actually got reprimanded by the moderators because you - or people like you - have been complaining about my negative remarks about their posts - even though they themselves feel entitled to be negative about Inxile or moderators.
I've never complained about anyone in these fora to any moderator. I just call out the perpetrators directly when they're making personal attacks against people who have legitimate complaints / questions that they are trying to air to inXile. I really don't understand the extreme sensitivity or defensiveness of others about the criticism of a third party, like inXile, or a product, like Barrows Deep. Why do you care? Why are you so emotionally invested in defending inXile or attacking those who have criticisms of it?
Free speech adepts that like to criticize but muffle another who is critical of them - speak of hypocrites. Bet you didn't know that, huh?
I have no idea what you're going on about here. As far as I know, the question of free speech has never arisen in this thread. This is a forum which is maintained by inXile. If they want to kick me off it, they can... and I'm not claiming otherwise. Given their propensity to censor forum remarks on Steam, I've fully expected them to delete my posts or kick me out here at some point. (My guess it isn't worth their while, since very few people actually read these fora. Their main foci for PR manipulation seem to be Steam and the industry press.) In the meantime, while I'm still here, I'll keep reminding them about their obligation to make a Bard's Tale game, since they took money from people, claiming that they were going to make a Bard's Tale game with it.

"Yours is attacking me personally."
No, I'm being factual, unless you claim you don't fit that dictionary definition?
Pulling out a dictionary and then trying to pin a definition on someone, claiming that somehow makes you objective or factual rather than a name-caller, is quite disingenuous. No one actually has accept what you're trying to pin on them. Bringing a dictionary into the argument doesn't somehow make you more objective or "factual".

Again, in another attempt to move this thread back on topic, my questions to inXile still stand.
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Re: The Bard's Tale IV Update 58: Director's Cut Launch Announcement

Post by Iiago » July 14th, 2019, 11:03 pm

It's ironic that the last place on earth I should expect to read anything positive about BT IV is the BT IV forum. Now if you'll excuse me, I need to head over to the Coldplay forums and complain about their music.

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Re: The Bard's Tale IV Update 58: Director's Cut Launch Announcement

Post by Gizmo » July 14th, 2019, 11:52 pm

Deja-vu ... From the Bethsoft days with FO3 (and the early days here). Same gist of argument (from both sides), but for different games; and with both studios having committed egregious error by branding an unrelated gameplay with the famous name—and having inexplicably distorted the world setting. :?

The one constant then (and now) was that most of those with a legitimate peeve—and the need to address it, had ample evidence proving it, and went to great pains to explain why it was either wrong to include, or a vital omission.

Whilst their argumentative counterparts would usually dismiss the (often verbose) examples without the slightest hint of having considered them—save for attempts at derision, and ridicule.

___________

Even so... I will give the game another shot. I honestly wasn't able to stay interested in BT4 for more than an hour—though I genuinely wanted to. :|
Perhaps this time (though I know it's still the wrong game in the box) I might get to see those places where it shines of its own merit; I know there has to be some.

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Re: The Bard's Tale IV Update 58: Director's Cut Launch Announcement

Post by svdp » July 15th, 2019, 2:44 am

I didn't explicitly claim that you were being paid by inXile because I have no idea whether you are or not. I also have no idea why you're so keen on calling me names, like "whiny" and "immature". Could be trolling, could be shilling, could be personal animosity towards me from some past argument in these fora. No idea. Hence my question: what's in it for you? A question which you still haven't answered.
That was exactly my point: you didn't say it directly I got payed, but you insinuated I say what I say because of ulterior motives, with gaining some benefit in mind. Instead of accepting that I say what I say because I think and feel the way I do, just like you. There *needs* not to be any other reason. And you're doing your repetitive thing here again; you're asking the very same thing again, claiming I did not answer, while I've explicitly stated WHY I say what I say: because you're a whiner (factual, as the dictionary shows) and I don't like whiners. Your constant insinuations that it's about something else is as weak as me saying you spout your negativity ad nauseam because you have ulterior motives, like: maybe you've shorted on Inxile, etc. It's a weak pseudo-argument.

You seem to have the misconception one can only say something when you have a vested interest that brings you some sort of profit. Maybe that's true for you - but that doesn't bode well for your motives, then. Let me try to put it your way: I'm calling you out on your whining, because I hope you'll finally grow up and move on. Yes, the chances are very slim for that to happen, but so are the chances Inxile will change their game the way you like. So, you know: "Hope springs eternal...." If that reason is good enough for you, than it's good enough for me. Maybe some day you will realize you're acting immature and like a spoiled brat.

I've never complained about anyone in these fora to any moderator. I just call out the perpetrators directly when they're making personal attacks against people who have legitimate complaints / questions that they are trying to air to inXile. I really don't understand the extreme sensitivity or defensiveness of others about the criticism of a third party, like inXile, or a product, like Barrows Deep. Why do you care? Why are you so emotionally invested in defending inXile or attacking those who have criticisms of it?
I'll take your word for it. Or maybe I should doubt it and think you denying it, has ulterior motives as well? I mean, I can play that game too. What's in it for you to deny you did it? Is it personal animosity? Etc, etc. As said: it's a weak and useless way to take that route. Anyhow, it's also why I said "or others like you". Obviously, I don't know who exactly, only that at least one person has.
I have no idea what you're going on about here. As far as I know, the question of free speech has never arisen in this thread. This is a forum which is maintained by inXile. If they want to kick me off it, they can... and I'm not claiming otherwise. Given their propensity to censor forum remarks on Steam, I've fully expected them to delete my posts or kick me out here at some point. (My guess it isn't worth their while, since very few people actually read these fora. Their main foci for PR manipulation seem to be Steam and the industry press.) In the meantime, while I'm still here, I'll keep reminding them about their obligation to make a Bard's Tale game, since they took money from people, claiming that they were going to make a Bard's Tale game with it.
The point is, you are insinuating I do it because I'm hoping to get moderator status or some other benefit from Inxile. Apparently you were unaware the opposite is true: I'm getting a reprimand when calling you guys out. That shows the silliness of the claim/implied insinuation, apart from it being already insulting - so let's not act as if you're not "attacking" me; it's just you're doing it in a more roundabout manner. And still you continue with it: is it because for this or that? Is it because some beef in the past? No, It isn't. I remember seeing you post the very same complaints in the past, and the whining annoys me, but I don't know you at all. Maybe you're a swell guy, in person. But you're whining on the forum. It's not because it's you, personally, it's because you started this thread with - once again - the same whining. So obviously you stood out. If it were another whiner who said the very same thing, I would have said exactly the same to THAT guy. Capisce? I've already - again - told you exactly that, so why are you still acting as if I didn't make that clear?

If you don't believe me, don't believe me, but don't act as if I didn't answer.

Pulling out a dictionary and then trying to pin a definition on someone, claiming that somehow makes you objective or factual rather than a name-caller, is quite disingenuous. No one actually has accept what you're trying to pin on them. Bringing a dictionary into the argument doesn't somehow make you more objective or "factual".
No, it does. The dictionary definition is meant to not weasel out on it by claiming semantic differences "Oh, but for *me* whining means something else." No, it means what it means. The logic is undeniable: a whiner is someone who whines, and whining is: "to complain or express disappointment or unhappiness repeatedly". If you say you don't accept that, it would mean you deny you have complained or expressed disappointment or unhappiness repeatedly. That would be demonstrably untrue. *Facts* are what makes something objective and factual - obviously - and you HAVE complained and expressed so numerous times, so it's factual true you're a whiner. I understand you don't like it, but you are.
Last edited by svdp on July 15th, 2019, 4:06 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: The Bard's Tale IV Update 58: Director's Cut Launch Announcement

Post by svdp » July 15th, 2019, 3:11 am

Gizmo wrote:
July 14th, 2019, 11:52 pm
Deja-vu ... From the Bethsoft days with FO3 (and the early days here). Same gist of argument (from both sides), but for different games; and with both studios having committed egregious error by branding an unrelated gameplay with the famous name—and having inexplicably distorted the world setting. :?

The one constant then (and now) was that most of those with a legitimate peeve—and the need to address it, had ample evidence proving it, and went to great pains to explain why it was either wrong to include, or a vital omission.

Whilst their argumentative counterparts would usually dismiss the (often verbose) examples without the slightest hint of having considered them—save for attempts at derision, and ridicule.

___________

Even so... I will give the game another shot. I honestly wasn't able to stay interested in BT4 for more than an hour—though I genuinely wanted to. :|
Perhaps this time (though I know it's still the wrong game in the box) I might get to see those places where it shines of its own merit; I know there has to be some.
Well, one can't speak for every forum or game, of course, but I think in most instances it's also due to people not simply giving a valid complaint, but doing so repetitively and excessively, ad nauseam. In the definition of "whining" the keyword is "repeatedly" after all. Once you've said what you wanted to say, there is no point in keep harking on about it. One may delude oneself that being whiny about it will improve things, but it won't. No-one likes whiners - except maybe other whiners that have the same pet-peeves. So it's actually counterproductive, even if the goal would genuinely be to improve the game.

Also, but that as an aside: while one can prove differences with past lore, it's near impossible to prove the differences are "vital", since that's highly subjective. That's why such debates never end between the two sides. I'm rather for the side that don't act like spoiled brats, whatever side that may be (but it's usually not the whiny side, thus).

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Re: The Bard's Tale IV Update 58: Director's Cut Launch Announcement

Post by Gizmo » July 15th, 2019, 10:45 am

svdp wrote:
July 15th, 2019, 3:11 am
Well, one can't speak for every forum or game, of course, but I think in most instances it's also due to people not simply giving a valid complaint, but doing so repetitively and excessively, ad nauseam. In the definition of "whining" the keyword is "repeatedly" after all. Once you've said what you wanted to say, there is no point in keep harking on about it. One may delude oneself that being whiny about it will improve things, but it won't. No-one likes whiners - except maybe other whiners that have the same pet-peeves. So it's actually counterproductive, even if the goal would genuinely be to improve the game.
One thing that does happen in public forums, is that new people keep showing up, and often repeat old questions (and assertions) because it's new to them. Old arguments resume as newly rephrased/updated replies that are quite familiar to members that have read it all before from the last several times it was posted. :(

*It's worse if (or when?) member is told by moderation staff that they are not to repeat the points... (as would happen on Bethsoft), but they would still get direct questions and accusations—which they were forbidden to properly answer; and their lack of reply would get pounced upon— mistaken as a weakness, or seen as an advantage.

In the case where complaints [often meant as benevolent advice] were directed at the studio, at developers [correctly or incorrectly] perceived as uninformed, or on the wrong path... the tendency is to post verbose and anywhere appropriate, in the hopes that it will be read by the studio.
Regular forumites will get over exposed to it, and it will seem like every post from a given member is always harping on the same thing, or similar complaints.

In the end, when they realize that the forum is not a place to offer advice to developers, and having seen their's and other's advice summarily ignored——occasionally even seen the perversely opposite implemented... one can become embittered to it and them. Afterwards, one might continue to post either in honest (but misguided) hope that at least —someone— (preferably a developer) will eventually reply with comprehension, if not actually take the advice to heart... or they post in spite, just to make it unavoidably obvious that the advice was there, and could have been heeded to avoid the later pitfalls that they warned about.

*Just so you know... Though _noblesse_oblige_ has chosen to be a jerk towards me personally, I tend to agree with most of [his?] posted sentiments & observations of the games, and the reasons given for them; often preempting my own similar post on the topic.
Also, but that as an aside: while one can prove differences with past lore, it's near impossible to prove the differences are "vital", since that's highly subjective. That's why such debates never end between the two sides. I'm rather for the side that don't act like spoiled brats, whatever side that may be (but it's usually not the whiny side, thus).
I disagree that it's subjective, and will say that it is very possible to like (or to dislike) a game, movie, book, image, or musical performance for reasons the person might not realize or understand... or even for the side effects of such reasons.

For Instance: In Fallout, it was a vital tenet that there always be at least three solutions to [at least] the main quests; so that character development didn't lock the player out. So much so that they would even cheat to make sure of it; like having a certain guard always fail to notice when he is pickpocketed, as a last minute means to satisfy the rule. This made the game seem more open-ended than it was, and let the player's PC really shine (through their abilities). I am sure that many players hadn't a clue about that, but they appreciated the effects of it.

Bard's Tale [2] had the mechanic that one had to make it back to town alive [risking random encounters—even in town, before they could advance], and that the Bard needed to drink & carouse; spell casters needed the Sun. This added a layer of tension to the game, and anchored the party to human settlements on the surface world.

The games allowed up to eight PCs; they supported accepting (or even forced recruiting) of characters encountered along the way. This allowed for radical short term party changes, and varied tactics in combat; depending upon who was alive, their strengths, and social disposition at the time.

When you lose these traits, you lose part of the series identity—even if some players never noticed them before. Missing pieces can affect the overall design of a sequel. Eventually these 'sequels' can bear little resemblance to the core titles, and are no longer offering the series' tenets, and core gaming experience.

This doesn't have to happen. There are game (book & movie) sequels that fully deliver on the core experience of a series, despite major difference, and upgraded improvements. It is the difference of building upon an established foundation, vs building something unrelated, but skinned to appear familiar—or sometimes not even that. What you get from the latter may be something grand on its own merits, but does its skin make it a truly appropriate sequel, when under the hood it's a totally different beast? (And who is to say what is subjective?)

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whippleshuffle
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Re: The Bard's Tale IV Update 58: Director's Cut Launch Announcement

Post by whippleshuffle » July 15th, 2019, 12:08 pm

_noblesse_oblige_ wrote:
July 11th, 2019, 12:21 pm
But, on https://www.inxile-entertainment.com/bardstale4?lang=en, there is only a passing mention of this "Legacy Mode" with no actual detail - what's in this mode?
When beginning a new game you'll be presented with a number of options to change game difficulty and which UI options you want to use or not. "Legacy Mode" (actually called 80's Style in-game) is a preset that changes options in an Exploration Style menu before beginning the game. You can turn these on/off individually, or choose from a preset.

Image
  • Control Scheme
    • Mouse & Keyboard
    • Controller
  • Movement Mode
    • Grid Move - Step through the world on a movement grid. A throwback for classic Bard's Tale fans.
    • Free Move - Move and look around the world freely as you would in a modern first person game.
  • Skippable Puzzles - Toggle on/off the song Struggler's Lament, which will open most doors that are locked by puzzles.
    • On
    • Off
  • Auto Mapping - Reveal the fog of war on the map as you explore and display important icons on the map. Turning this feature off will disable the map entirely.
    • On
    • Off
  • Mini-Map - Disabled if Auto-Mapping is Off
    • On - Show a mini-map on screen at all times.
    • HUD Only - The mini-map will only appear while you're viewing your party.
    • Off - The mini-map never appears on screen. Map info is still available in the Map screen.
  • Show Waypoints
    • On - Shows waypoints both on the map and in the world, helping you find your way around.
    • Off - Disables most waypoints from appearing, leaving it up to you to explore and find your way around.

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Gizmo
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Re: The Bard's Tale IV Update 58: Director's Cut Launch Announcement

Post by Gizmo » July 15th, 2019, 12:28 pm

Are these essentially one-click presets, to configure the sliders? (And can the sliders be configured apart from the presets?)

Also: What does skippable puzzles actually do?

Specifically... Does it remove the puzzles, replace them (with switch/levers?), or does the player encounter them pre-solved—or simply now click to solve?

Does this setting affect puzzle weapon/artifacts?

___________

Lastly... Does this have a character developmental effect—or some detrimental aspect to offset making the content effectively optional busywork? (Where before, it was —I assume— required to solve, in order progress in the game.)

What I mean is, that this is a little bit like making climbing entirely optional in the Tomb Raider games; where it was mandatory before.
(IE. starting Lara with a jet pack—or not, and leaving it up to the player to choose.)

I don't envy the ones who spent time and careful thought designing the puzzles. :|

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whippleshuffle
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Re: The Bard's Tale IV Update 58: Director's Cut Launch Announcement

Post by whippleshuffle » July 15th, 2019, 12:50 pm

Gizmo wrote:
July 15th, 2019, 12:28 pm
Are these essentially one-click presets, to configure the sliders? (And can the sliders be configured apart from the presets?)
Correct. They're all configured independently, the presets just act as a helpful guide.
Gizmo wrote:
July 15th, 2019, 12:28 pm
Also: What does skippable puzzles actually do?

Specifically... Does it remove the puzzles, replace them (with switch/levers?), or does the player encounter them pre-solved—or simply now click to solve?
This is the Struggler's Lament song that's been discussed previously, allowing you to bypass progression puzzles. These are puzzles that are needed to be solved to progress the game. Side/optional puzzles, etc. are not bypassable with Struggler's Lament.
Gizmo wrote:
July 15th, 2019, 12:28 pm
Does this setting affect puzzle weapon/artifacts?
I don't believe there are any that Struggler's Lament can be used on.

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Gizmo
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Re: The Bard's Tale IV Update 58: Director's Cut Launch Announcement

Post by Gizmo » July 15th, 2019, 12:54 pm

Aha. Thanks for the reply. Image

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