Charisma in the dialogues.

[Uster]

How does the Charisma affect dialogues?
Form the Charisma description: "People will react more favorably to a Ranger with high charisma, and might talk about things they would have otherwise kept to themselves."
If charisma does open up more dialogue options, does it matter if I start the conversation with the charismatic character? Or I just need a character with good Charisma just be in my party (like for Trade)? Or I need good total party's Charisma for more dialogue options (like I need good total Charisma for recruiting some characters like Scotchmo, Pizepi Joren, etc.)?

[Gillsing]

I would assume that special stuff like that can use whichever special rules the developers cared to use when they designed the NPCs. I've had a particular encounter where my Charisma 10 ranger supposedly passed a Charisma check, but since this is the General Discussion with no spoilers, I'll withhold the details. But I suppose that one could try to pass that same check with a Charisma 1 Ranger to see if it works with having the Charisma 10 Ranger just being on the team. Too late for me though, until I replay the game.

[Stuurminator]

I don't know for sure if it's the individual ranger's charisma or the party's charisma, but my guess is almost certainly the latter. Anyway, NPCs offer an additional benefit when your charisma is high, but there's no special notification or anything.

If you're talking to an NPC and a conversation option for more information or reward just stops dead while offering neither, it's possible you didn't have enough charisma. If you're talking to an NPC and are suddenly told of somewhere you can get a reward when said reward seems superfluous to what you did or said, then it's possible you got a charisma reward. But like NPCs offering to join you, there' no flashing lights or ringing bells when it happens or doesn't happen. There's no way to know for sure when it happened or didn't happen except to play multiple games and note the differences.

[Gizmo]

I would (of course) want it to be per Ranger stat checks; because the stats should only be available if the ranger is. Their attitude, and aptitude should not count in conversation when they are unconscious, dead, or on the opposite side of the map; (not in the conversation).

[Gillsing]

In that regard it could be both: A Ranger's stats might only count for the team if they are indeed present and conscious. Though I suppose then the player could force a per-Ranger stat check by simply moving all other Rangers far enough away that only the high Charisma Ranger counts. Assuming that the game wouldn't then divide that Ranger's Charisma by the number of team members, whether they are present or not.

[Gizmo]

The best option IMO is to have per-PC stat checks, but with an optional setting to auto-select the best PC (or NPC) for the task at hand.

[Uster]

I would assume that special stuff like that can use whichever special rules the developers cared to use when they designed the NPCs.

Thank you for sharing your experience. But I don't understand your answer. Do you assume some NPC's need a Ranger with good Charisma be in my squad, and some NPC's need a Ranger with good charisma to start conversation? Thank you for your time.

[Uster]

I don't know for sure if it's the individual ranger's charisma or the party's charisma, but my guess is almost certainly the latter. Anyway, NPCs offer an additional benefit when your charisma is high, but there's no special notification or anything.

If you're talking to an NPC and a conversation option for more information or reward just stops dead while offering neither, it's possible you didn't have enough charisma. If you're talking to an NPC and are suddenly told of somewhere you can get a reward when said reward seems superfluous to what you did or said, then it's possible you got a charisma reward. But like NPCs offering to join you, there' no flashing lights or ringing bells when it happens or doesn't happen. There's no way to know for sure when it happened or didn't happen except to play multiple games and note the differences.

Yes, I don't know for sure too. That's why I'm asking
Thank you, but I know about absence of ringing bells and flashing lights. ))

[Uster]

I would (of course) want it to be per Ranger stat checks; because the stats should only be available if the ranger is. Their attitude, and aptitude should not count in conversation when they are unconscious, dead, or on the opposite side of the map; (not in the conversation).

Thank you for your help. But I think you misunderstand me. My question is not about what happens when rangers are split and are on the opposite side of the map.
By the way, maybe you don't want it, but Barter Skill works, when the ranger with good Barter Skill is on the opposite side of the map.

[Gillsing]

The Pawner and Silver-Tongued perks appeared to be personal when I tested them. Unlike Barter. Just FYI.

Do you assume some NPC's need a Ranger with good Charisma be in my squad, and some NPC's need a Ranger with good charisma to start conversation? Thank you for your time.

Pretty much like that, yes, except not necessary to be the one to start the conversation, just the one selected as the speaker when clicking on a dialogue option. Like how the doctor at Titan's Temple will only heal my team if the person telling him "Heal" has taken any damage, but if the person talking is unwounded he'll just say it's a scratch that doesn't need his attention. And regardless, the option to heal is then gone, which is also unusual for such an NPC, since before then, all other such healers have gladly healed everyone regardless of who's asking them, and then kept that offer open. Though both (or neither) of these things could be affected by my team being 'peace breakers', and thus making that NPC and others less helpful than they might otherwise have been. So... special rules all over the place. Take nothing for granted.

I really dislike this kind of game design, but I guess it goes over better with some people. I prefer a game with rules that a player can learn, so that when it's time to make decisions, the player has a good feel for what the risks and rewards are, and what the consequences are likely to be based on the situational modifiers. No "this scenario was designed by this developer and not this other developer also working on the game, so in this case it works differently for no particular in-game reason". Just save often, as the loading tip says.

[Uster]

The Pawner and Silver-Tongued perks appeared to be personal when I tested them. Unlike Barter. Just FYI.

Thank you, this is something what I want to know. Yeah, it works just like you described. It looks inconvenient for me. When I sell items, I click "All squad members" button. It was so simple and convenient. Now I understand, I have to pass some items from one ranger to another before selling these items . And when I have Silver-Tongued ranger, I have to choose ranger carefully when I want to buy something .

[Gizmo]

When I sell items, I click "All squad members" button. It was so simple and convenient. Now I understand, I have to pass some items from one ranger to another before selling these items . And when I have Silver-Tongued ranger, I have to choose ranger carefully when I want to buy something .

This is sensible to me; the merchant is trying to get the best deal they can, and if the ranger is not confident, or not able to haggle, then that merchant will command a more aggressive price for their goods.

[Uster]

When I sell items, I click "All squad members" button. It was so simple and convenient. Now I understand, I have to pass some items from one ranger to another before selling these items . And when I have Silver-Tongued ranger, I have to choose ranger carefully when I want to buy something .

This is sensible to me; the merchant is trying to get the best deal they can, and if the ranger is not confident, or not able to haggle, the that merchant will command a more aggressive price for their goods.

Lack of consistency and lack of proper skill-attributes-perks description. That's what we a talking about. E.g. we have party-wide Barter skill and not party-wide The Pawner perk. I am pretty sure it is not sensible for you . And we don't have straightforward and clear Charisma description. And many other things are not clear described too. Just like Gillsing mentioned above.

[Gizmo]

...we have party-wide Barter skill and not party-wide The Pawner perk. I am pretty sure it is not sensible for you .

It's a shame; and you are right, it's not sensible to me.

[Geist1]

So far I haven't seen charisma do jack sh--. For conversations it's been Hard Ass, Kiss Ass, Smart Ass perk. I have no freakin' idea why those were separated from charisma. They could have done away with those perks and just relied on charisma for dialogue. Having your high charisma character knowing when to improvise and speak "hard assley, kiss assley, or smart assley." You just waste perk points maxing all 3 of those perks, when you should just be worrying about charisma.

Another silly f--- example of stats. I got a character with 2 Strength with maxed out "Brute Force." ROFLMFAO. Just for sh--s and giggles. Like why the hell were those 2 things even separate?

[Gillsing]

I would like to report that in the dialogue with the Brentwood dentist, he commented on how pretty my Charisma 10 leader's teeth were, but when I replayed the same conversation while having Rose do the talking (being a fellow doctor and all), such compliments were not included. So who knows what else various NPCs might have told my Charisma 10 leader that I never knew was the result of high Charisma?

[Gizmo]

I got a character with 2 Strength with maxed out "Brute Force." ROFLMFAO. Just for sh--s and giggles.
Like why the hell were those 2 things even separate?

Well... IRL it is the case that raw strength isn't always the deciding factor; sometimes... knowing how to use it is. Two people of equivalent strength might not both be able to move a large heavy object alone (like a stove or piano). If one can manage it and the other cannot, it is usually in how each applied their strength; efficiently or inefficiently.

I have moved objects (like stoves, and cast-iron tubs) across a room, that it took four people to lift—but I certainly couldn't have lifted it alone.

Here is a neat video; kind of related:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5pZ7uR6v8c

[Gillsing]

But the skill name "Brute Force" certainly doesn't imply force being used intelligently or efficiently. It's a ridiculous skill, and when used to open loot containers it should've been replaced with Mechanical Repair for using tools like drills, saws and hammers to expertly open containers without breaking anything. Why, that makes me think of a comedy skit where a guy used a circular saw to modify a piece of a puzzle, and when that wasn't enough he used a hammer to smash the piece into place where it didn't belong. Now, that's Brute Force. And that's pretty much what the developers did with Brute Force in this game. They Brute Forced it into the game. Brute Force! Brute Force! Brute Fooorce!

[Gizmo]

But the skill name "Brute Force" certainly doesn't imply force being used intelligently or efficiently.[/i]

No argument there , but I can see a distinction between a PC of Strength:2, and of strength:3, where the weaker of the two has the brute force skill, and (possibly?) has a better chance of success because of it.

**Looking it up on a wiki just now, and the skill lists in its description the very thing I mentioned before. So that's exactly what this skill is intended to be.

https://wasteland.gamepedia.com/Brute_Force

https://wasteland.gamepedia.com/Strength