inXile Entertainment joins Microsoft Studios

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Re: inXile Entertainment joins Microsoft Studios

Post by kilobug » November 22nd, 2018, 12:36 am

shmerl wrote:
November 21st, 2018, 1:49 pm
kilobug wrote:
November 21st, 2018, 1:29 pm
For myself, currently playing Pathfinder: Kingmaker, which does a Linux version :)
I've heard it has some issues with missing add-ons in Linux versions. I haven't bought it yet, but plan to.
On the GOG version yes, the add-ons are Windows-only, but it's not like they are very important, and in the (upstream) release notes for v1.1 recently released they said they added support for add-ons on Linux, so GOG will likely catch up soon.

Apart from that, there is a known glitch (you need to overwrite a Unity dll with the version from another Unity game or there is no music), but else the game works very smoothly on Linux.

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Re: inXile Entertainment joins Microsoft Studios

Post by Gillsing » November 22nd, 2018, 5:09 am

shmerl wrote:
November 21st, 2018, 11:32 pm
That's why I'm skeptical about "we'll continue doing the same" in regards to acquisition.
Yes, it does seem unlikely that they will continue to crowdfund DRM-free games for Linux, as I don't believe they think that's the 'kind of games' they were making. I'm pretty sure the genre and gameplay defines a game for them and for the vast majority of their fans, not how it's funded or distributed.

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Re: inXile Entertainment joins Microsoft Studios

Post by demeisen » November 22nd, 2018, 8:04 am

shmerl wrote:
November 21st, 2018, 1:49 pm
kilobug wrote:
November 21st, 2018, 1:29 pm
For myself, currently playing Pathfinder: Kingmaker, which does a Linux version :)
I've heard it has some issues with missing add-ons in Linux versions. I haven't bought it yet, but plan to.
I'm playing it on Linux, but didn't back the kickstarter, so can't comment on missing add-ons. Anyway, it's quite good. Early versions were rather buggy, but they've been patching the hell out of it, and it's solid now so long as you have a recent patch.

Don't expect Pillars of Eternity level artwork or emotional poignancy. They're not at Obsidian's level when it comes to visual gorgeousness (I'm not sure anyone is), but it's still quite acceptable, and in certain other ways it's a nicer game than PoE was, so all told it's worth a play. The studio appears to have talent and potential, so here's hoping they pick up the ball and run with it.

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Re: inXile Entertainment joins Microsoft Studios

Post by shmerl » November 22nd, 2018, 10:10 am

Gillsing wrote:
November 22nd, 2018, 5:09 am
Yes, it does seem unlikely that they will continue to crowdfund DRM-free games for Linux, as I don't believe they think that's the 'kind of games' they were making. I'm pretty sure the genre and gameplay defines a game for them and for the vast majority of their fans, not how it's funded or distributed.
That contradicts what Brian Fargo himself said. See the video I linked again. So inXile just won't care about their backer audience, they'll target different people. Whether that's "same type of games" would then depend on whom you ask. For former backers - for sure not, if they won't release them the same way. Arguably, for inXile it can be more profitable. Xbox people who don't care about things that crowdfunding backers care about are more numerous. But for backers this isn't a good thing.

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Re: inXile Entertainment joins Microsoft Studios

Post by PsychicMonk » November 22nd, 2018, 12:46 pm

In his latest interviews Mr Fargo was pretty clear that they pretty much won't do any crowdfunding for future projects since they are now owned by Microsoft who will fund future projects. So what will change from my understanding is that Microsoft gets to decide which of InXile's future project ideas will happen at all. But once a project happens Microsoft lets Inxile pretty much work on the game like they are used to do (That's the "nothing changes" part).
Last edited by PsychicMonk on November 22nd, 2018, 3:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: inXile Entertainment joins Microsoft Studios

Post by kanisatha » November 22nd, 2018, 2:27 pm

PsychicMonk wrote:
November 22nd, 2018, 12:46 pm
In his latest interviews Mr Fargo was pretty clear that they pretty much won't do any crowdfunding for future projects since they are now owned by Microsoft who will fund future projects. So what will change from my understanding is that as the owner of InXile Microsoft get's to decide which of InXile's future project ideas will happen at all. But once a project happens Microsoft lets Inxile pretty much work on the game like they are used to do (That's the "nothing changes" part).
Very true. But isn't it the case that the funding source is always instrumental in deciding whether a game project idea is a go or not? So now, instead of a bunch of KS backers greenlighting a project, it will be the head of Microsoft Studios. Personally I think this is for the better.

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Re: inXile Entertainment joins Microsoft Studios

Post by shmerl » November 22nd, 2018, 4:06 pm

kanisatha wrote:
November 22nd, 2018, 2:27 pm
Very true. But isn't it the case that the funding source is always instrumental in
deciding whether a game project idea is a go or not? So now, instead of a bunch of KS backers greenlighting a project, it will be the head of Microsoft Studios. Personally I think this is for the better.
That depends. As a crowdfunding backer, I could vote with my wallet in a positive manner, backing their games since they planned to release for Linux and DRM-free and of course because I was interested in those games. Now MS will decide to ignore this audience, and I'll be able to vote negatively only (by not buying new games if they'll be DRMed and not available for Linux). I.e. through crowdfunding we could show demand. Through MS funding - we can't.

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Re: inXile Entertainment joins Microsoft Studios

Post by PsychicMonk » November 22nd, 2018, 4:22 pm

kanisatha wrote:
November 22nd, 2018, 2:27 pm
So now, instead of a bunch of KS backers greenlighting a project, it will be the head of Microsoft Studios. Personally I think this is for the better.
The wishful thinking of many KS backers is/was that it is possible to greenlight "niche games" that no sane publisher would touch otherwise. Now I don't see InXile/Obsidian beeing able to so without Game Pass and a lot of people don't want Game Pass.

Also if the budget for future titles is twice as much then they will need to earn twice as much money and it's pretty unlikely that they will sell that many additional copies just because of the better polishing. It's much more likely that they will also have to streamline the game to widen the audience.

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Re: inXile Entertainment joins Microsoft Studios

Post by Woolfe » November 22nd, 2018, 5:20 pm

PsychicMonk wrote:
November 22nd, 2018, 4:22 pm
kanisatha wrote:
November 22nd, 2018, 2:27 pm
So now, instead of a bunch of KS backers greenlighting a project, it will be the head of Microsoft Studios. Personally I think this is for the better.
The wishful thinking of many KS backers is/was that it is possible to greenlight "niche games" that no sane publisher would touch otherwise. Now I don't see InXile/Obsidian beeing able to so without Game Pass and a lot of people don't want Game Pass.

Also if the budget for future titles is twice as much then they will need to earn twice as much money and it's pretty unlikely that they will sell that many additional copies just because of the better polishing. It's much more likely that they will also have to streamline the game to widen the audience.
In all fairness, that is exactly what they have been doing. If anything we the backers keep getting in their way.

I for one am glad to see them lose the nostalgia wagon that they have been riding to fund their games.
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Re: inXile Entertainment joins Microsoft Studios

Post by kanisatha » November 23rd, 2018, 8:21 am

Crowdfunding backers are a very small group that ends up coercing developers to produce games that are exactly as they want them, with zero tolerance for even the smallest of deviations or creative differences from their absolutist demands. They are far too often whiney and entitled. And these particular backers I speak of are not even representative of all backers; rather, they're a very tiny minority within that small group of backers. But they're extremely vocal and in-your-face, and they pretend that they are the majority voice. They are the reason I no longer bother with engaging in threads on this forum. So I'd much rather see decisions about what games to make and how to make them be made by some dispassionate studio exec than these backers that I speak of.

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Re: inXile Entertainment joins Microsoft Studios

Post by shmerl » November 23rd, 2018, 11:21 am

kanisatha wrote:
November 23rd, 2018, 8:21 am
Crowdfunding backers are a very small group that ends up coercing developers to produce games that are exactly as they want them
It's a two way street. Backers also allow developers making games that publishers don't care about.

I think crowdfunding as a model today hit a limitation of scale. Studios like inXile and Obsidian want to make their games bigger, but crowdfunding didn't manage to cope with the growth.

Another issue is the growing competition. There are a lot good of games coming out in RPG genre. It's not that people don't want to buy them, but what's the point in buying them all at once? It will only boost people's backlog. For instance I haven't bought Pathfinder: Kingmaker, because I have a ton of games in my backlog to play. Yet I plan to buy it.

This naturally poses a problem for developers, who can't wait that long to recover their expenses. So one way to deal with that is to make games that stand out from the competition (think The Witcher 3). But to do that you need a ton of money, and the problem is only amplified. This pushes developers into publishers' field unfortunately.

I wonder what can be done to make crowdfunding more sustainable so independent studios could continue being successful.

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Re: inXile Entertainment joins Microsoft Studios

Post by svdp » November 23rd, 2018, 12:33 pm

kanisatha wrote:
November 23rd, 2018, 8:21 am
Crowdfunding backers are a very small group that ends up coercing developers to produce games that are exactly as they want them, with zero tolerance for even the smallest of deviations or creative differences from their absolutist demands. They are far too often whiney and entitled. And these particular backers I speak of are not even representative of all backers; rather, they're a very tiny minority within that small group of backers. But they're extremely vocal and in-your-face, and they pretend that they are the majority voice. They are the reason I no longer bother with engaging in threads on this forum. So I'd much rather see decisions about what games to make and how to make them be made by some dispassionate studio exec than these backers that I speak of.
Luckily you nuanced it a bit at the end, because at the start I would have said: I'm a crowdfund backer, and I didn't make any demands whatsoever. I just wanted to see what they could do, and their enthusiasm was pretty cool, and the genre looked like I like it, so I went with it.

now, I do agree there are many, many whiners on the fora. And they're only a vocal minority of 1%, but they make nice like they're the 99%.

That said, most are reasonable, and I don't think big companies/publishers are any better, and, in fact, much worse - since once they have the IP, they actually own you. I'm always reminded of the happenstances with Larian, years ago.

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Re: inXile Entertainment joins Microsoft Studios

Post by svdp » November 23rd, 2018, 12:40 pm

kanisatha wrote:
November 22nd, 2018, 2:27 pm
PsychicMonk wrote:
November 22nd, 2018, 12:46 pm
In his latest interviews Mr Fargo was pretty clear that they pretty much won't do any crowdfunding for future projects since they are now owned by Microsoft who will fund future projects. So what will change from my understanding is that as the owner of InXile Microsoft get's to decide which of InXile's future project ideas will happen at all. But once a project happens Microsoft lets Inxile pretty much work on the game like they are used to do (That's the "nothing changes" part).
Very true. But isn't it the case that the funding source is always instrumental in deciding whether a game project idea is a go or not? So now, instead of a bunch of KS backers greenlighting a project, it will be the head of Microsoft Studios. Personally I think this is for the better.
Yes, because it's proven again and again, being bought out by a megacorp is always better for the indie. They can work independently - assuredly so, then, and MS makes far better choices than their fans, because they *know* better than the fans, and they have an excellent track record of good decisions and making their indies thrive. One has only to look at FASA STUDIOS, BUNGIE, DIGITAL ANVIL, ENSEMBLE, RARE, LIONHEAD, BIGPARK, TWISTED PIXEL GAMES, etc. All indies bought by MS. Real success-stories! And that's because the head of MS has greenlighted things, and it sure turned out to be for the better. It sure did.

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Re: inXile Entertainment joins Microsoft Studios

Post by Woolfe » November 23rd, 2018, 1:14 pm

svdp wrote:
November 23rd, 2018, 12:40 pm
kanisatha wrote:
November 22nd, 2018, 2:27 pm
PsychicMonk wrote:
November 22nd, 2018, 12:46 pm
In his latest interviews Mr Fargo was pretty clear that they pretty much won't do any crowdfunding for future projects since they are now owned by Microsoft who will fund future projects. So what will change from my understanding is that as the owner of InXile Microsoft get's to decide which of InXile's future project ideas will happen at all. But once a project happens Microsoft lets Inxile pretty much work on the game like they are used to do (That's the "nothing changes" part).
Very true. But isn't it the case that the funding source is always instrumental in deciding whether a game project idea is a go or not? So now, instead of a bunch of KS backers greenlighting a project, it will be the head of Microsoft Studios. Personally I think this is for the better.
Yes, because it's proven again and again, being bought out by a megacorp is always better for the indie. They can work independently - assuredly so, then, and MS makes far better choices than their fans, because they *know* better than the fans, and they have an excellent track record of good decisions and making their indies thrive. One has only to look at FASA STUDIOS, BUNGIE, DIGITAL ANVIL, ENSEMBLE, RARE, LIONHEAD, BIGPARK, TWISTED PIXEL GAMES, etc. All indies bought by MS. Real success-stories! And that's because the head of MS has greenlighted things, and it sure turned out to be for the better. It sure did.
Soooo... whilst I somewhat agree, you do realise that all of those studios produced some great games under microsoft.

I would be curious to see how long they lasted compared to other independent studios. It may simply be that most of those studios would have folded sooner had MS not taken them on. It's not like there isn't a litany of indies that collapse.

Honestly if not for KS, InXile wouldn't be where they are today.
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Re: inXile Entertainment joins Microsoft Studios

Post by svdp » November 23rd, 2018, 3:27 pm

Woolfe wrote:
November 23rd, 2018, 1:14 pm
svdp wrote:
November 23rd, 2018, 12:40 pm
kanisatha wrote:
November 22nd, 2018, 2:27 pm


Very true. But isn't it the case that the funding source is always instrumental in deciding whether a game project idea is a go or not? So now, instead of a bunch of KS backers greenlighting a project, it will be the head of Microsoft Studios. Personally I think this is for the better.
Yes, because it's proven again and again, being bought out by a megacorp is always better for the indie. They can work independently - assuredly so, then, and MS makes far better choices than their fans, because they *know* better than the fans, and they have an excellent track record of good decisions and making their indies thrive. One has only to look at FASA STUDIOS, BUNGIE, DIGITAL ANVIL, ENSEMBLE, RARE, LIONHEAD, BIGPARK, TWISTED PIXEL GAMES, etc. All indies bought by MS. Real success-stories! And that's because the head of MS has greenlighted things, and it sure turned out to be for the better. It sure did.
Soooo... whilst I somewhat agree, you do realise that all of those studios produced some great games under microsoft.

I would be curious to see how long they lasted compared to other independent studios. It may simply be that most of those studios would have folded sooner had MS not taken them on. It's not like there isn't a litany of indies that collapse.

Honestly if not for KS, InXile wouldn't be where they are today.
I beg to differ. Most produced very little, and most of what they produced, was not great anymore - compared to the original. Most got shut down. Some fought to get free again; which is strange, no, if it was such a good deal for indies?

As for your last part... well, that's a difficult one. Would they have succeeded on their own? I assume it would depend how you look at that. Things actually improved by things like kickstarter and such, because now indies have an alternative, as Inxile and Larian have demonstrated. It used to be, they had to beg money from the same big gamehouses or publishers we're actually talking about, and they often wanted their IP as collatoral as well.

So in fact, the reason they disappeared, often was the same, whether they were gobbled up, or they got forced into servitude by loans of the big corps; point is, that most of them went bust because of them. I mean, I'm sure there were some that just couldn't make it on their own as well, granted. But most of them seemed or have suffered the actual lethal blow once they were in the clutches of others, be it by directly being bought-up, or by having the loans and their IP.

Of course, you actually have those that succeeded small, but DID make it. The irony to me, is that once they get big enough, they do the same as the others. Look at Bethesda. It's a pity, but I guess that, unless you fight it actively, the bigger you are, the more inclined you are to lose your touch, zeal and actual game-drive, and thus the 'soul', if you will, of the indie company, and slowly managers and accountants and CEO's of third parties that know nothing of games take over, and from their it goes down the drain, in regard to quality and novelty of the game. IT's just about mass-producing games and moneygrabbing, after a while.

Fallout 79, anyone? Mind you, I'm not saying good games can't come out anymore. I've played skyrim lots, and liked it. But compare the 'feel' of the company now with what it was when they released Morrowind, and you can already sense the difference. Gone are the days, for instance, that you got DLC's and extra stuff for free, and they actually listened to their fans. Now it's: we're asking half of what the game costs for a DLC that gives around 1/20th of the gameplay the main game has. Or: we'll ask 5 dollars for some cosmetic horse armor... that's where you saw it started. It caused outrage then, but now it's a currentl business model/practice for hundreds of games, and people have been lulled into believing its normal. And Bethesda started gobbling up other indies as well.

Is that the inevitable fate: either go down, or do the same? Either eat them, or get eaten? Become them, or become nothing?

I dare say there are some exceptions that give me hope, like Larian, but only if you have some 'known' IP (in their case; Divinity) you can still survive, me think, as a pure indie, especially with the alternative ways to get money these days.

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Re: inXile Entertainment joins Microsoft Studios

Post by Drool » November 23rd, 2018, 3:33 pm

svdp wrote:
November 23rd, 2018, 3:27 pm
Gone are the days, for instance, that you got DLC's and extra stuff for free
When was this?
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Re: inXile Entertainment joins Microsoft Studios

Post by _noblesse_oblige_ » November 23rd, 2018, 4:23 pm

kanisatha wrote:
November 23rd, 2018, 8:21 am
So I'd much rather see decisions about what games to make and how to make them be made by some dispassionate studio exec than these backers that I speak of.
As long as they're paying for it with their own money, rather than someone else's (like that of crowdfunders), then that is perfectly reasonable. But, we saw what happened with the Barrows Deep game, where inXile execs made dispassionate decisions which went in the face of what they told crowdfunders they were going to deliver. Not surprisingly, they got some blowback from some of the people whose money they took.
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Re: inXile Entertainment joins Microsoft Studios

Post by demeisen » November 23rd, 2018, 5:15 pm

kanisatha wrote:
November 23rd, 2018, 8:21 am
Crowdfunding backers are a very small group that ends up coercing developers to produce games that are exactly as they want them, with zero tolerance for even the smallest of deviations or creative differences from their absolutist demands. They are far too often whiney and entitled. And these particular backers I speak of are not even representative of all backers; rather, they're a very tiny minority within that small group of backers. But they're extremely vocal and in-your-face, and they pretend that they are the majority voice.
I agree that is an effect which exists.

On the other hand, without crowdfunding, would we ever have seen Pillars of Eternity? Wasteland 2? Pathfinder Kingmaker?

The classical, pre-crowdsource funding model was rapidly headed towards an industry kicking out little but Call of Duty 47 clones and Madden #394. Appealing to the biggest part of the market, but everyone else's preference was marginalized into nonexistence. There was a real dark era for RPGs, not to mention other niche genres. You can argue about the exact degree to which it was responsible, but crowdfunding helped bring about a resurgence of genres that had been deemed commercially non-viable by big studio execs because they couldn't move a hundred million units to pay for their 500-man studios. ("Taco Bell was the only restaurant to survive the franchise wars. Now, all restaurants are Taco Bell!")

That's not even to mention that DRM-free sales were the bread and butter of crowdfunded games, where the big studios were pushing heavily the other way.

I agree there are drawbacks to crowdfunding, including the one you identified, but on the flip side, the majority of games I've enjoyed in the last 5-odd years have been crowdfunded, and probably would not have happened otherwise. It's very easy to point out flaws in WL2-DC, but I still had more fun with it than anything that's come out of EA or a Bethesda for a very, very long time.

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Re: inXile Entertainment joins Microsoft Studios

Post by Woolfe » November 23rd, 2018, 7:01 pm

svdp wrote:
November 23rd, 2018, 3:27 pm
Woolfe wrote:
November 23rd, 2018, 1:14 pm
svdp wrote:
November 23rd, 2018, 12:40 pm
Yes, because it's proven again and again, being bought out by a megacorp is always better for the indie. They can work independently - assuredly so, then, and MS makes far better choices than their fans, because they *know* better than the fans, and they have an excellent track record of good decisions and making their indies thrive. One has only to look at FASA STUDIOS, BUNGIE, DIGITAL ANVIL, ENSEMBLE, RARE, LIONHEAD, BIGPARK, TWISTED PIXEL GAMES, etc. All indies bought by MS. Real success-stories! And that's because the head of MS has greenlighted things, and it sure turned out to be for the better. It sure did.
Soooo... whilst I somewhat agree, you do realise that all of those studios produced some great games under microsoft.

I would be curious to see how long they lasted compared to other independent studios. It may simply be that most of those studios would have folded sooner had MS not taken them on. It's not like there isn't a litany of indies that collapse.

Honestly if not for KS, InXile wouldn't be where they are today.
I beg to differ. Most produced very little, and most of what they produced, was not great anymore - compared to the original. Most got shut down. Some fought to get free again; which is strange, no, if it was such a good deal for indies?
Yes you have said all this already, and I said I somewhat "AGREE", just in case you missed it.

But the reality is some of the games these studios released under the MS banner were great. You can beg to differ all you want, but there were a number of successes in that lot.
svdp wrote:
November 23rd, 2018, 3:27 pm
As for your last part... well, that's a difficult one. Would they have succeeded on their own? I assume it would depend how you look at that. Things actually improved by things like kickstarter and such, because now indies have an alternative, as Inxile and Larian have demonstrated. It used to be, they had to beg money from the same big gamehouses or publishers we're actually talking about, and they often wanted their IP as collatoral as well.
My point was though, that had MS not bought them, there was no guarantee the games they produced would have eventuated, back then they pretty much had to work with publishers or find their own investors, which was often worse than the publishers due to .
This was one of the reasons Kickstarter was seen as a saviour for mid sized Devs. It allowed them to produce something without the need to get publishers involved. It also allowed them to keep their devs between games. Very few small devs that grew into mid sized survived. They either broke apart, stayed deliberately small, or were purchased by a larger company. Now the cynic says that some of those sales were purely about the money, but not all, a lot of companies simply could not continue at the time without the assistance of larger companies.

And yes you are right at that time, during the height of the consoles, the big names, EA, MS, Sony, etc etc etc would buy up the devs and either relegate them to a single task, or take/drive away the talent and let the company die.

Today however quite a few mid sized devs have shown they can operate without the Big names. And the Big names seem to be realising that their behaviour of the past contributed to certain failures of IP, and certainly to a loss of talent.

But don't imagine for a second that this isn't to some degree about money. InXile have grown themselves to a size where 2 commercial failures in a row is not going to fly. The way I see it is that without the KS funds they probably would have sold out some time ago.
svdp wrote:
November 23rd, 2018, 3:27 pm
So in fact, the reason they disappeared, often was the same, whether they were gobbled up, or they got forced into servitude by loans of the big corps; point is, that most of them went bust because of them. I mean, I'm sure there were some that just couldn't make it on their own as well, granted. But most of them seemed or have suffered the actual lethal blow once they were in the clutches of others, be it by directly being bought-up, or by having the loans and their IP.
Sure, and I am not going to say that there wasn't cutthroat behaviour going on. These companies ARE businesses. But you are taking it to an extreme that it doesn't need to be at.

And microsoft is a company that has had to change in the last years. You may not be aware of the sort of goings on in the MS world, but they are definitely a different company today than they were 20 or even 10 years ago. Apple's success hit them a lot harder than a lot realise. There is a reason Microsoft have now positioned themselves as a service provider, of which their OS's is just another element. They realise that controlling the whole market ends up working against them, so they want to control as much as they can, and then have their fingers in the rest. I don't know if you are aware but there has been a big push to make MS products like Office as the most obvious example, available on IOS, Android, Even moves towards linux.
svdp wrote:
November 23rd, 2018, 3:27 pm
As for your last part... well, that's a difficult one. Would they have succeeded on their own? I assume it would depend how you look at that. Things actually improved by things like kickstarter and such, because now indies have an alternative, as Inxile and Larian have demonstrated. It used to be, they had to beg money from the same big gamehouses or publishers we're actually talking about, and they often wanted their IP as collatoral as well.

So in fact, the reason they disappeared, often was the same, whether they were gobbled up, or they got forced into servitude by loans of the big corps; point is, that most of them went bust because of them. I mean, I'm sure there were some that just couldn't make it on their own as well, granted. But most of them seemed or have suffered the actual lethal blow once they were in the clutches of others, be it by directly being bought-up, or by having the loans and their IP.
I disagree, pretty much everything I have read or heard (Bryan Fargo even talked about it) was that prior to Crowdfunding, mid sized devs were pretty much screwed. They couldn't hold staff(because they couldn't pay them without an active project, and they generally weren't big enough to be able to do multiple projects at once), so they would lose the talent they had, which meant each project would bring more variables in staffing, plus they were beholden to the publisher's whims anyway, because were invariably the companies that invested the cash, and they would spend lots of resources on showing that they were making progress to the investors etc.

So pretty much everytime they finished a product, they would lose their staff etc, then they would need to bank on the profits of whatever release to ensure they could keep their doors open long enough to start a new project. So if the product didn't do well.... They died.

Crowdfunding has allowed a lot of smaller and mid sized devs to garner cash and support for a product, which then gives them greater bargaining power, both because they don't need as much from the investor/Publishers, but also because they can show an interest in the product immediately etc.
svdp wrote:
November 23rd, 2018, 3:27 pm
Of course, you actually have those that succeeded small, but DID make it. The irony to me, is that once they get big enough, they do the same as the others. Look at Bethesda. It's a pity, but I guess that, unless you fight it actively, the bigger you are, the more inclined you are to lose your touch, zeal and actual game-drive, and thus the 'soul', if you will, of the indie company, and slowly managers and accountants and CEO's of third parties that know nothing of games take over, and from their it goes down the drain, in regard to quality and novelty of the game. IT's just about mass-producing games and moneygrabbing, after a while.
There are some devs that stay deliberately small, as they can manage it better, and any wealth they make allows them to move onto the next game. But at a cost of not being able to do really big games.
svdp wrote:
November 23rd, 2018, 3:27 pm
Fallout 79, anyone? Mind you, I'm not saying good games can't come out anymore. I've played skyrim lots, and liked it. But compare the 'feel' of the company now with what it was when they released Morrowind, and you can already sense the difference. Gone are the days, for instance, that you got DLC's and extra stuff for free, and they actually listened to their fans. Now it's: we're asking half of what the game costs for a DLC that gives around 1/20th of the gameplay the main game has. Or: we'll ask 5 dollars for some cosmetic horse armor... that's where you saw it started. It caused outrage then, but now it's a currentl business model/practice for hundreds of games, and people have been lulled into believing its normal. And Bethesda started gobbling up other indies as well.
As I said, I do somewhat agree.
svdp wrote:
November 23rd, 2018, 3:27 pm
Is that the inevitable fate: either go down, or do the same? Either eat them, or get eaten? Become them, or become nothing?

I dare say there are some exceptions that give me hope, like Larian, but only if you have some 'known' IP (in their case; Divinity) you can still survive, me think, as a pure indie, especially with the alternative ways to get money these days.
Yep Pretty much, and yeah of course there are exceptions. And Larian didn't come from nowhere they built themselves up from a small spot, with a modest return each game, they found there own investors that supported them. They were a long game.

Most business is about the short game remember. I hate it as much as you, but remember that a lot of the people who worked in those great studios went on to other studios/projects. They are still creating, just not the same IP. Which IS sad. But reality is people need to make money to make games.

Welcome to capitalism at its finest.
It's not too late. Make it Eight!

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anastiel
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Re: inXile Entertainment joins Microsoft Studios

Post by anastiel » November 24th, 2018, 7:07 am

Good luck, and I wish you the best Inxile thanks for the best games
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