Player-Created Characters Are HUGELY Important.
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- Zombra
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Player-Created Characters Are HUGELY Important.
Sorry for the all caps, but I feel the emphasis is warranted.
As we have seen with the recent release of Bard's Tale IV, vocal players are not responding well to having premade characters forced on them. Starting BT4 with a premade character, then assigning more premade characters to the party, and only allowing player-created characters later via an obscure and counterintuitive token system after firing the premade characters, has not been praised by anyone; and everywhere I look (not just here, and not just on the Codex) players are complaining about it.
PLEASE DO NOT MAKE THIS SAME MISTAKE with Wasteland 3. Full character creation should be the DEFAULT OPTION and the game should be designed ON THE ASSUMPTION THAT THE PLAYER WILL CREATE THEIR OWN CHARACTERS, starting with the first character BEFORE THE GAME EVEN BEGINS. Premade characters should certainly be available for those who don't want to bother but that should be a SECONDARY OPTION. Wasteland 2 proved that this works fine.
Thank you for your attention.
As we have seen with the recent release of Bard's Tale IV, vocal players are not responding well to having premade characters forced on them. Starting BT4 with a premade character, then assigning more premade characters to the party, and only allowing player-created characters later via an obscure and counterintuitive token system after firing the premade characters, has not been praised by anyone; and everywhere I look (not just here, and not just on the Codex) players are complaining about it.
PLEASE DO NOT MAKE THIS SAME MISTAKE with Wasteland 3. Full character creation should be the DEFAULT OPTION and the game should be designed ON THE ASSUMPTION THAT THE PLAYER WILL CREATE THEIR OWN CHARACTERS, starting with the first character BEFORE THE GAME EVEN BEGINS. Premade characters should certainly be available for those who don't want to bother but that should be a SECONDARY OPTION. Wasteland 2 proved that this works fine.
Thank you for your attention.

- undecaf
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Re: PLAYER-CREATED CHARACTERS ARE HUGELY IMPORTANT.
Agreed.
And while we’re at it... Do also keep to-hit rolls and other RNG-based skillchecks.
And while we’re at it... Do also keep to-hit rolls and other RNG-based skillchecks.
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- Drool
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Re: PLAYER-CREATED CHARACTERS ARE HUGELY IMPORTANT.
Fully agree. What we've seen makes it sound like they're wanting it to open kind of like BT4 does, which would be a very bad idea. Additionally, Mercenary Tokens are a horrible idea.
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- Grohal
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Re: PLAYER-CREATED CHARACTERS ARE HUGELY IMPORTANT.
I second that - while I personally have lots of fun with Bards Tale IV I can understand everyone who insists on a self-made party. So make it optional.
Hell is no place, hell is a condition.
- Woolfe
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Re: PLAYER-CREATED CHARACTERS ARE HUGELY IMPORTANT.
Agreed.... Stop trying to be clever.
We will either want your characters or we won't. Personally I don't give a damn how much work you put into the NPC, making them chat as you walk along, no thanks I don't want to see it. Don't care, will probably just be annoyed because that isn't how I imagined the character.
We will either want your characters or we won't. Personally I don't give a damn how much work you put into the NPC, making them chat as you walk along, no thanks I don't want to see it. Don't care, will probably just be annoyed because that isn't how I imagined the character.
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Re: PLAYER-CREATED CHARACTERS ARE HUGELY IMPORTANT.
Creating a full team of Rangers was one of the best part of W2, i certainly don't want this to be changed.
On contrary i'd like to customize even more my party with Quirks or Traits, more stats in general, why not a morality system or a reputation with the factions, and stuffs like that.
On contrary i'd like to customize even more my party with Quirks or Traits, more stats in general, why not a morality system or a reputation with the factions, and stuffs like that.
- Gizmo
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Re: PLAYER-CREATED CHARACTERS ARE HUGELY IMPORTANT.
The option to make my own characters doesn't usually matter to me, not if the ones they provide are well done... but certain games are expected to support player created characters, and the Wasteland & Bard's Tale games are obviously two of those; where assigned PCs should only ever be considered as an optional starting party.
- sear
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Re: PLAYER-CREATED CHARACTERS ARE HUGELY IMPORTANT.
Wasteland 3's character creation is effectively the same as Wasteland 2's, discounting differences in the character system itself. You can create a fully custom character or go with premades. There are also companions you pick up along your journey, which are pre-defined characters who have their own story elements but are non-editable.
- Zombra
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Re: PLAYER-CREATED CHARACTERS ARE HUGELY IMPORTANT.
Wait wait wait. You can create ONE character?
That's not what we were told early on.
I appreciate the reply but unless I'm reading this wrong this is awful news.
That's not what we were told early on.
I appreciate the reply but unless I'm reading this wrong this is awful news.

- sear
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Re: PLAYER-CREATED CHARACTERS ARE HUGELY IMPORTANT.
You're reading too much into my phrasing.

- Zombra
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- Woolfe
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Re: PLAYER-CREATED CHARACTERS ARE HUGELY IMPORTANT.

It's not too late. Make it Eight!
- Drool
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Re: PLAYER-CREATED CHARACTERS ARE HUGELY IMPORTANT.
Before the game truly starts, or are we still doing the "start with one and then, later, make your party"?
Alwa nasci korliri das.
- Zombra
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Re: PLAYER-CREATED CHARACTERS ARE HUGELY IMPORTANT.
Based on everything I've read, particularly sear's "nothing has changed", it's still "start with one". Not my preference but I'm fine with it.

- Gizmo
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Re: PLAYER-CREATED CHARACTERS ARE HUGELY IMPORTANT.
Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale did that... and players would deliberately host private offline multiplayer games—intending that no one else join, so that they could make their entire party, and assign themselves control of each character... and play it the way the SSI gold box games allowed.
I wonder if someone will manage to create customized save states that achieve similar in the BT game?
I wonder if someone will manage to create customized save states that achieve similar in the BT game?
- Gennadios
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Re: PLAYER-CREATED CHARACTERS ARE HUGELY IMPORTANT.
I blame developer's insistence on cramming their games with terribad, un-optimised joked characters to this very day.
Has anyone played Baldur's Gate and looked at Minsc recently? I had fond memories of him, but looking at his terrible ass class and his tendency to rage at just about everything, it's painful even adding him to my party.
WL2 was guilty of that as well, with a few characters that would have been great if they didn't have 3 levels worth of skill points dumped on toaster repair or animal whisperer for [s]no good reason[/s] roleplay immersion.
Compromise: Start recruitable NPCs with weapon skills only and a few skill points and let the player decide if toaster repair is a theme they want to pursue.
Has anyone played Baldur's Gate and looked at Minsc recently? I had fond memories of him, but looking at his terrible ass class and his tendency to rage at just about everything, it's painful even adding him to my party.
WL2 was guilty of that as well, with a few characters that would have been great if they didn't have 3 levels worth of skill points dumped on toaster repair or animal whisperer for [s]no good reason[/s] roleplay immersion.
Compromise: Start recruitable NPCs with weapon skills only and a few skill points and let the player decide if toaster repair is a theme they want to pursue.
- Grohal
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Re: PLAYER-CREATED CHARACTERS ARE HUGELY IMPORTANT.
I always gave Minsc a good bow and he was very efficient with it. As he was a ranger and not a barbarian that's the way to go in "optimised" D&D anyway.
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Re: PLAYER-CREATED CHARACTERS ARE HUGELY IMPORTANT.
All PCs should be flawed gems; never perfect, and each with some bit of annoyance to offset their valued abilities. Ideally just enough that some will not find them worth it, while others will.
I remember in Temple of Elemental Evil, the party can recruit a Giant; he stands over twice as tall as any other party member; stomps enemies good too. But he is evil, gruff, temperamental... and the town refuses you entrance with him in your party.
Another NPC in that game, is just a regular amicable guy, looking for something to do for a while. He performs well in the party—at least until he decides that the party is of no more direct benefit to him... and then he has no problem with trying to murder them all.
Yoshimo in Baldurs Gate 2, is a minion of Irenicus. He's a great PC/npc to have, but of course he will turn on you when he is commanded by his master; and he genuinely seems sorry about it.
Jan (also in BG2) is a fine PC, but he rants on and on about family and turnips...
I remember in Temple of Elemental Evil, the party can recruit a Giant; he stands over twice as tall as any other party member; stomps enemies good too. But he is evil, gruff, temperamental... and the town refuses you entrance with him in your party.
Another NPC in that game, is just a regular amicable guy, looking for something to do for a while. He performs well in the party—at least until he decides that the party is of no more direct benefit to him... and then he has no problem with trying to murder them all.
Yoshimo in Baldurs Gate 2, is a minion of Irenicus. He's a great PC/npc to have, but of course he will turn on you when he is commanded by his master; and he genuinely seems sorry about it.
Jan (also in BG2) is a fine PC, but he rants on and on about family and turnips...
- Gennadios
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Re: PLAYER-CREATED CHARACTERS ARE HUGELY IMPORTANT.
That works but it's still not the best use of a character slot (then again, everything Minsc does isn't a great use of a character slot

My playstyle relies on having melee characters to engage with the archers to get them to switch to melee weapons, and the rogues/clerics/mages in the ranged backline targeting spellcasters for interruption. Jaheira with a sling was a better ranged interruptor/caster than Minsc.
- Highwayman667
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Re: PLAYER-CREATED CHARACTERS ARE HUGELY IMPORTANT.
Well... it worked for Witcher 3 xD ...
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