Bard's Tale IV Reviews

[Drool]

While not specific to this game, I find game reviews to be a curious thing. The professional reviews are only for the first few levels of a game, never the whole game. What's so strange is that you don't see this in other media. Professional movie critics don't watch 10 minutes of a movie and write a review. Book reviews are about the whole book, not just the first chapter. But that's what game reviewers do...they play a beta or just the first part of a game and then write a review on it.

Books and movies generally take less time to complete than games. Someone on Twitter was talking about having finished BT4 and it took them 60 hours.

Also, most professional reviewers seem to be completely awful at games, so many of them may still be trying to find the Adventurer's Guild. They can tell you if the game works or not. Beyond that, it's probably best to find trusted enthusiast reviews on YouTube or something.

[DNACowboy]

Well, we are now 2 days in after release, and Steam reviews are still in the low 40s.

Yes, and it doesn't matter whether they are called reviews or feedback or whatever. They are legitimate. Reviews by gaming journalists may be subject to their own biases, arising from personal associations and such. In many ways, feedback from actual gamers is much more honest. We opened our wallets for the game and didn't receive free copies. We have a simple criterion: is it fun or is it not fun? Whether it's not fun can be because it crashes, because it's slow, because the mechanics are bad, because it doesn't meet expectations, or whatever. Doesn't matter. The feedback is valid. The gaming press, otoh, are more like wine tasters, having much ado about things that don't factor into the basic question of whether the game is fun or not.

The white-knighting and attempted apologetics by some is pretty risible at this point. What are those people even hoping to get out of all this? A pat on the head from the saddened devs, looking for a ray of sunshine in their day? Forum moderator privileges? A chance to perform testing of future inXile games? I don't get why some people, who aren't in the employ of inXile, care that other people have a negative view of this Barrows Deep game. What is their motivation?

I hope INXILE learns their lessons, but i dont think they will.

I'm pessimistic as well, but we can hope. They won't be getting my money again, unless they can really, really turn things around with their Legacy Mode. Even then, I will probably not be an early backer and will take a wait-and-see approach to any future projects of theirs.

You are really starting to sound desperate and worse, a little crazy. The rest of us have moved on, enjoying the game for the most part, but here you are still pontificating on just how ‘bad’ the game is and questioning (in frankly nasty detail) the motivations of people who love the game as if to say ‘omg, I hate this game why don’t others? they must have some sort of ulterior motive’, honestly, move on.
In closing, it’s funny, your nick ‘Noblisse Oblige’ (privilege demands responsibility)? You have shown yourself to be anything but a responsible gentleman what with your personal attacks and now these sly insinuations.

[ZiN]

Please keep it civil and avoid insulting prestigious scholars, like noblesse, who has worked hard to preserve the lore of Bard's Tale.

[thebruce]

Back on topic. Bard's Tale IV Reviews.

[Woolfe]

That is interesting.

The Gog & Steam pages both title it: Bard's Tale VI: Barrows Deep, but the game's main menu shows it differently.

I wonder if the change was last minute, and the store pages haven't reflected the change? I've no idea. I haven't installed the game yet.
Is this title screen [below] still used for the main menu in the released version? Does the game's title in the intro cinematic have the number 4?

I don't know I haven't played it yet. I am awaiting the first bunch of major patches.

[Gizmo]

Same here. I do not have (honest/true) unlimited Internet, and cannot afford dedicating what I have to 5GB patches.

[Themadcow]

Sooo... back on topic.

http://gamingtrend.com/feature/reviews/ ... ep-review/

The Bard’s Tale IV could be a fun — but seriously flawed — game if it weren’t hamstrung by technical problems. Its frequent framerate drops, bugged combat abilities, and crashes are compounded by an archaic save system that makes it far too easy to lose progress. Though it features some great combat and challenging puzzles, they’re not without their own flaws, and become extremely repetitive over the game’s 30–40-hour playtime. -5/10

There probably should be a separate thread for sales performance, but from what I can tell it's not great - and the release of Pathfinder appears to be hitting active player numbers.

[eisberg]

https://www.mmorpg.com/columns/bards-ta ... 1000013036

This is your grandpappy’s old-school RPG, but it is made for the modern day. It’s made for RPG lovers of all types, ages, and experience. Bard’s Tale 4 follows squarely in the footsteps of giants without missing a beat. It has taken all those classic features and brought them into modern game play. It feels both fresh and true to its roots, at the same time. I highly recommend this to veterans and newcomers to the series alike.

[Themadcow]

https://www.mmorpg.com/columns/bards-ta ... 1000013036

Already posted on page 1 by the venerable Infinitron and DNA Cowboy.

[Themadcow]

https://games.avclub.com/the-bard-s-tal ... 1829188003

At its worst, Bard’s Tale IV can feel like cosplay of the style of game it’s meant to be invoking. (Well, actually, at its worst, it’s barely functional as a piece of software—this is definitely a situation where waiting for the promised week one fix patch is probably a good idea.) Non-player characters, while well-written, lack depth, parroting back the same few lines no matter how many times you visit them. Exploration tools are little more than esoteric keys to a variety of easily identified doors. And the vast underground labyrinth of Skara Brae frequently feels like little more than a series of gussied-up corridors. But when it clicks, it clicks hard, invoking those old, long-forgotten feelings of being lost in a hostile place with nothing but your wits and your weapons to help you win the day. That’s the sort of thing that can occasionally be worth sifting through a little dross to find.

[Crosmando]

https://www.mmorpg.com/columns/bards-ta ... 1000013036

This is your grandpappy’s old-school RPG, but it is made for the modern day. It’s made for RPG lovers of all types, ages, and experience. Bard’s Tale 4 follows squarely in the footsteps of giants without missing a beat. It has taken all those classic features and brought them into modern game play. It feels both fresh and true to its roots, at the same time. I highly recommend this to veterans and newcomers to the series alike.

So MMORPG players like it, not surprising

[Themadcow]

So MMORPG players like it, not surprising

I think the discussion below the Torven's article is pretty reflective of, well, everything on BT4... it's very 'marmite'.

Old schooler's are distinctly unhappy, while those coming to the game with no expectations are finding it quite fun. The reviewer is just another RPG player with their perspective on the game. This guy isn't getting paid for his review, and if one of the other posters had picked up the free PR key instead... maybe it would have been a very different review. Torven doesn't reflect the view of MMORPG as a whole, just his view.

[Crosmando]

So MMORPG players like it, not surprising

I think the discussion below the Torven's article is pretty reflective of, well, everything on BT4... it's very 'marmite'.

Old schooler's are distinctly unhappy, while those coming to the game with no expectations are finding it quite fun. The reviewer is just another RPG player with their perspective on the game. This guy isn't getting paid for his review, and if one of the other posters had picked up the free PR key instead... maybe it would have been a very different review. Torven doesn't reflect the view of MMORPG as a whole, just his view.

I'm saying it because many of BT4's mechanics cater quite heavily to the MMO crowd; cooldowns, stats via equiptment, chargen being being very simplistic etc.

EDIT: Then again, in MMO's you can cast any spell in combat (as opposed to BT4's mastery slots) and they also have many more spells and abilities than BT4 so maybe MMO's are actually better than BT4.

[tomimt]

Here's my own personal take on BTIV: http://playernone.blogspot.com/2018/09/ ... -2018.html

If you don't want to click and read my thoughts after the first 10 hours of playing it, my take, in a nutshell, is, that despite the game has some technical and even design issues, it is none the less a fun game. I'm digging it far more than I like the original BT games.

[Malvado]

Personally I was ready for the Bards Tale IV to be so much more, but then it failed misserably on points that are important for me :

*A fluid and interesting combat system where classes and individual tactics do play a role. It should give variety through different playthroughs and different characters. An archer could help the Forward Paladin and Fighter while the thief sneaks in the shadow towards the boss, menwhile the priest and mage counters magic and helps injured to recover. And when things gets hard the mage could summon an beast to help in combat.

*Sure, the old BT didnt have much to go on when it came to changing and evolving your characters, what skills you wanted them to spend time on, if you wanted them to be able to endure wounds or really wound the enemy in combat instead and kill them off rapidly. This was a point where character development and choises would interest players a lot and would give sense to see your character evolve.

*The interesting part is that with a proper system in order the two points above should not even be difficult to handle for newcomers, they could just get a "Premade party" that has a description of what kind of playstyle they give and have some kind of "automated" level up for the characters unless the player wants to take control on his own, that way they know what will happen once they level up.

I could probably name the early rpg's I played like the Dark heart of Uukrull, Bards Tale 1 & 2 and partly 3, Eye of the Beholder trilogy, Dungeon Master , Pool of Radiance, a lot of other games in the D&D packets and of course great games like Ultima underworld, Ultima 1 - X , Might and Magic to name a few. The point is all these games where great once but today they could be so much more, even though the graphics was not top notch we have the computer power to do so much more with them, but again the developers like Brian Fargo seems to really have forgotten the old value of these games and give us an improved and way better experience that we wont forget nor our kids if we show them this new game.

[eisberg]

Plenty of attacks against those who like the game have come from those who don't like the game, so attacks are happening from both sides.

Haven't seen many from my side of the fence. But, feel free to call them out if you do see them. Doesn't change anything about me wondering about the motivations of those who love the game who are making the attacks.

Also, looking over the Steam reviews, there are not that many reviews in relation to those who expected something closer to the 1980s games and the ones that do exists vast majority of them are from people who didn't buy it from Steam which means their review is not even being used for the percentage on Steam since the percentage only represents people who bought the game from Steam (rather than getting a key from somewhere else and activating it on Steam).

Not sure what argument you are trying to make here. If you are saying that a lot of people got their Steam keys from CrowdOx or Xsolla and that their reviews are not being counted as part of the percentage, then I'm not sure what relevance I'm supposed to draw from that. Doesn't that still mean that, of those who purchased on Steam directly, there are still 48% who hold a negative view? (Is it your claim that those who got their Steam keys from elsewhere are not properly represented by the statistically significant sample of those who did get their keys on Steam?)

I suspect that once the technical issues are fixed, that we'll see it go up to the 70s.

I'm not much given to prognostication, so I have no idea about the longer term trend. But, if people are on the fence about whether to try the game now, it is probably not going to help them choose to try it later when they see the large pile of negative views, even if there are some folks saying "hey, the game is totally patched now - it is a joy to play, you should try it out". Given the rapid churn of titles in this industry, Barrows Deep will most likely be mostly forgotten under a pile of newer, better games before it is fully patched.

I have been reporting the attacks on Steam, and I have gotten several messages thanking me for the report and it has been dealt with. The attacking messages were sometimes deleted, a few people have been banned with all their messages deleted on the whole forum, while some remain but the developers got on to say to stop with the attacks.

I was giving context to the 52% score shown on Steam. Showing that the score really is not being driven by nostalgia of the original series, but other things which for the most part is technical reasons, and then the lack of save anywhere and no respec being in second place, and then graphics being in third. Which is why I said, with patching up technical stuff I can see it reaching the 70%.

There really is not that many good games that are released each year, so it is highly doubtful that this game will be forgotten, cause what we have here really is a great game but with technical problems. The height of a sales period for PC games now days go on for like 3 months or more, so getting the technical stuff fixed as soon as possible can still very much still give them the sales they need.

it is still way to early to be calling out Doom and gloom for this game.

[Jalis]

I suspect that once the technical issues are fixed, that we'll see it go up to the 70s.

Sadly, I agree with noblesse... by the time the technical issues are sorted through, the damage may already be done. That's too bad, too, because despite not being what many backers wanted, there's a good game here, deserving a better score than 52% or whatever it's currently at on Steam.

[eisberg]

I suspect that once the technical issues are fixed, that we'll see it go up to the 70s.

Sadly, I agree with noblesse... by the time the technical issues are sorted through, the damage may already be done. That's too bad, too, because despite not being what many backers wanted, there's a good game here, deserving a better score than 52% or whatever it's currently at on Steam.

nah, it is way to early to spell out doom and gloom on this. Peak sales for PC games now days go on for like 3 months sometimes even more, and I highly doubt it is going to take them 3+ months to get the technical issues sorted out.

[_noblesse_oblige_]

Plenty of attacks against those who like the game have come from those who don't like the game, so attacks are happening from both sides.

Haven't seen many from my side of the fence. But, feel free to call them out if you do see them. Doesn't change anything about me wondering about the motivations of those who love the game who are making the attacks.

Also, looking over the Steam reviews, there are not that many reviews in relation to those who expected something closer to the 1980s games and the ones that do exists vast majority of them are from people who didn't buy it from Steam which means their review is not even being used for the percentage on Steam since the percentage only represents people who bought the game from Steam (rather than getting a key from somewhere else and activating it on Steam).

Not sure what argument you are trying to make here. If you are saying that a lot of people got their Steam keys from CrowdOx or Xsolla and that their reviews are not being counted as part of the percentage, then I'm not sure what relevance I'm supposed to draw from that. Doesn't that still mean that, of those who purchased on Steam directly, there are still 48% who hold a negative view? (Is it your claim that those who got their Steam keys from elsewhere are not properly represented by the statistically significant sample of those who did get their keys on Steam?)

I suspect that once the technical issues are fixed, that we'll see it go up to the 70s.

I'm not much given to prognostication, so I have no idea about the longer term trend. But, if people are on the fence about whether to try the game now, it is probably not going to help them choose to try it later when they see the large pile of negative views, even if there are some folks saying "hey, the game is totally patched now - it is a joy to play, you should try it out". Given the rapid churn of titles in this industry, Barrows Deep will most likely be mostly forgotten under a pile of newer, better games before it is fully patched.

I have been reporting the attacks on Steam, and I have gotten several messages thanking me for the report and it has been dealt with. The attacking messages were sometimes deleted, a few people have been banned with all their messages deleted on the whole forum, while some remain but the developers got on to say to stop with the attacks.

I was primarily referring to activity here in this forum. I don't know what's been happening on Steam. I've seen reports of people having threads deleted for being negative about the game. I can't speak to interpersonal heat as the threads were gone by the time I heard about them. I've only poked my head in the forums there a couple of times. I've had one post that was negative about Barrows Deep in relation to the BT Remasters deleted without even a word of warning. The great lengths that inXile is going to censor criticism in the Steam forums shows that they are highly sensitive to the precarious PR situation that they are in. If they truly felt confident about their product, they would be able to ride out the occasional attack because it would be drowned out by positive sentiment.

I was giving context to the 52% score shown on Steam. Showing that the score really is not being driven by nostalgia of the original series, but other things which for the most part is technical reasons, and then the lack of save anywhere and no respec being in second place, and then graphics being in third.

I don't dispute that fidelity to the originals is not the only concern. (And I don't remember claiming that the score was being driven by that alone.) A lot of the reviews I've read had a combination of factors, mostly to do with stability/performance and other things like action points, combat system, and lack of fidelity to the originals. None of that changes the fact that the negative response rate has been hovering around 50% for about the past two weeks and after a patch.

Which is why I said, with patching up technical stuff I can see it reaching the 70%.

I won't hold you to your prediction, if it doesn't pan out.

it is still way to early to be calling out Doom and gloom for this game.

Momentum is a hard thing to change.

[Jalis]

https://www.ign.com/articles/2018/09/26 ... eep-review

IGN's review is in. A lot of similar sentiment; good RPG hampered by technical issues. 7.9 "Good". That will likely bump some sales.