Any one know how to re-spec?

For all Bard's Tale IV discussion that does not fit elsewhere, suggestions, feedback, etc. No spoilers allowed.

Moderator: Bard Hall Bouncers

User avatar
thebruce
Forum Moderator
Posts: 1876
Joined: February 17th, 2015, 8:46 am
Contact:

Re: Any one know how to re-spec?

Post by thebruce » September 21st, 2018, 7:53 am

Absolutely!

A respec in this sense would be paying the cost (whatever that may be) and perhaps "imagining" time has passed while you train in those new abilities.
Visit BardsTaleOnline.com - your community Bard's Tale classic RPG resource!
Twitter: @BardsTaleOnline / Facebook: Bards.Tale.Online
@thebruce0

User avatar
Spectralshade
Scholar
Posts: 219
Joined: May 22nd, 2012, 8:58 am

Re: Any one know how to re-spec?

Post by Spectralshade » September 21st, 2018, 8:05 am

it is starting to grate me that a fair amount of steam users have taken to the 'it was the backers fault' line that inXile fed them.

thanks for feeling like a valued backer inXile...

User avatar
thebruce
Forum Moderator
Posts: 1876
Joined: February 17th, 2015, 8:46 am
Contact:

Re: Any one know how to re-spec?

Post by thebruce » September 21st, 2018, 10:35 am

An interesting point... this was never an issue with the original trilogy. There were no 'skills' to 'choose' - you got levels, and and your stats improved base on race and class. Combat was defined entirely by char stats, class, and equipped item stats. No 'skills' apart from the Class bonus, so no need to respec.
At least, respeccing was generally done by just creating new characters or a wohle new party, typically on a new playthrough :)

The micromanagement of this skill tree concept is what gets people all up in arms about being 'stuck' with a skill selection; the alternate skills are within arms' reach. No one said "I don't like my hunter, I want to make him a monk!" unless they started a new playthrough.

Just some thoughts about this instance of 'stray' from the original trilogy.
Visit BardsTaleOnline.com - your community Bard's Tale classic RPG resource!
Twitter: @BardsTaleOnline / Facebook: Bards.Tale.Online
@thebruce0

User avatar
Lord of Riva
Adventurer
Posts: 964
Joined: October 14th, 2014, 10:18 am

Re: Any one know how to re-spec?

Post by Lord of Riva » September 21st, 2018, 11:10 am

thebruce wrote:
September 21st, 2018, 10:35 am
An interesting point... this was never an issue with the original trilogy. There were no 'skills' to 'choose' - you got levels, and and your stats improved base on race and class. Combat was defined entirely by char stats, class, and equipped item stats. No 'skills' apart from the Class bonus, so no need to respec.
At least, respeccing was generally done by just creating new characters or a wohle new party, typically on a new playthrough :)

The micromanagement of this skill tree concept is what gets people all up in arms about being 'stuck' with a skill selection; the alternate skills are within arms' reach. No one said "I don't like my hunter, I want to make him a monk!" unless they started a new playthrough.

Just some thoughts about this instance of 'stray' from the original trilogy.
Well to be fair the skills are all visible and perfectly informative in what they do, so people should read the skills before selecting them....

THAT SAID

The differences between the builds is nearly non-existant you get like 2-3 Skills per weapon type so you cant actually lock yourself in a unwinnable state i would think.

Blave
Initiate
Posts: 7
Joined: January 27th, 2016, 3:29 am

Re: Any one know how to re-spec?

Post by Blave » September 21st, 2018, 11:42 am

Lord of Riva wrote:
September 21st, 2018, 11:10 am

Well to be fair the skills are all visible and perfectly informative in what they do, so people should read the skills before selecting them....

THAT SAID

The differences between the builds is nearly non-existant you get like 2-3 Skills per weapon type so you cant actually lock yourself in a unwinnable state i would think.
The fact that some skills are mutually exclusive is less than clear. Reading descriptions is also not always helpful when you're new to a game and don't really know in detail how everything works. The descriptions are also incomplete, lacking stuff like durations or area of effects for some bard songs and stuff like that.

Also, I was completely annoyed when I finally got a second fighter and he was skilled just like I had skilled my first one.

User avatar
ZiN
Adventurer
Posts: 681
Joined: January 27th, 2015, 7:57 am

Re: Any one know how to re-spec?

Post by ZiN » September 21st, 2018, 11:46 am

Themadcow wrote:
September 21st, 2018, 7:17 am
Omelet79 wrote:
September 21st, 2018, 7:07 am
"Courtesy of feedback from users such as Omelet79, we are adding a cost to resetting your characters’ skill trees. It is no longer freely available anywhere. You now pay using a mercenary token at the Review Board to do so."

Please explain why this was not implemented as specified in the Kickstarter Update.
Zoiks. Apology from inXile incoming I assume...
Double apology actually. One for lying about the implementation and another for trying to blame it on backers on the Steam forums.
Spectralshade wrote:
September 21st, 2018, 8:05 am
it is starting to grate me that a fair amount of steam users have taken to the 'it was the backers fault' line that inXile fed them.

thanks for feeling like a valued backer inXile...
Well, sadly, attacking and spinning narratives about fans, for not accepting a garbage product and being vocal about it, is becoming more and more widespread in the entertainment industry.

User avatar
Lord of Riva
Adventurer
Posts: 964
Joined: October 14th, 2014, 10:18 am

Re: Any one know how to re-spec?

Post by Lord of Riva » September 21st, 2018, 11:51 am

Blave wrote:
September 21st, 2018, 11:42 am
Lord of Riva wrote:
September 21st, 2018, 11:10 am

Well to be fair the skills are all visible and perfectly informative in what they do, so people should read the skills before selecting them....

THAT SAID

The differences between the builds is nearly non-existant you get like 2-3 Skills per weapon type so you cant actually lock yourself in a unwinnable state i would think.
The fact that some skills are mutually exclusive is less than clear. Reading descriptions is also not always helpful when you're new to a game and don't really know in detail how everything works. The descriptions are also incomplete, lacking stuff like durations or area of effects for some bard songs and stuff like that.

Also, I was completely annoyed when I finally got a second fighter and he was skilled just like I had skilled my first one.
Oh right, the "dotted" lines, yeah those arent explained at all which is a problem.

Don't worry im not trying to defend how they made it.

Telstar
Initiate
Posts: 15
Joined: September 20th, 2018, 4:30 pm

Re: Any one know how to re-spec?

Post by Telstar » September 21st, 2018, 1:38 pm

Respec is needed since the "review board" is not explained and you are basically forced to take useless skills until you get there.

Jamey
Acolyte
Posts: 76
Joined: November 8th, 2014, 6:15 pm

Re: Any one know how to re-spec?

Post by Jamey » September 21st, 2018, 1:52 pm

A few things:

1) It'd be nice to have a way to keep the pre-generated characters with their unique chatter to each other in the party, but that is largely not desirable because you didn't get to select their skills.

2) We all make mistakes when learning the game. I know I'd make adjustments to a lot of my characters now.

3) I'm roughly level 15 when I finally got a Cleric. That basically locks me out of full use of the Cleric tree. Apparently you cannot create a new Mercenary without picking all of their skills before leaving character generation, so I cannot make a better Cleric. Ugh.

4) If the problem is crafting skills, the devs need to recognize that we can make crafting characters, swap them into the party in the AG, and then swap them out after making items.

In short, I'd be enjoying the game more if I could respec.

Tuoweit
Acolyte
Posts: 94
Joined: September 27th, 2014, 11:25 am

Re: Any one know how to re-spec?

Post by Tuoweit » September 21st, 2018, 3:17 pm

You can technically use a mercenary token to roll a new character with the spec you want, but that's not quite the same thing.

Jamey
Acolyte
Posts: 76
Joined: November 8th, 2014, 6:15 pm

Re: Any one know how to re-spec?

Post by Jamey » September 21st, 2018, 3:28 pm

Tuoweit wrote:
September 21st, 2018, 3:17 pm
You can technically use a mercenary token to roll a new character with the spec you want, but that's not quite the same thing.
It's not the same thing if you're enjoying the chatter from a character. It also doesn't allow you to roll a reasonable Cleric.

User avatar
rumpelstilskin
Acolyte
Posts: 76
Joined: September 25th, 2014, 9:02 am

Re: Any one know how to re-spec?

Post by rumpelstilskin » September 21st, 2018, 4:41 pm

small update: seems that paranoia poison is genuinely bugged (after some patch i presume). it's not present in the mastery list even if you add it on a new character. however, i was able to do some editing on the save game files. it's far from a full respec editor, but i was able to unpack a save, make some minor changes, and repack it again. at the very least, i can reliably add free skill points to a character.

Jamey
Acolyte
Posts: 76
Joined: November 8th, 2014, 6:15 pm

Re: Any one know how to re-spec?

Post by Jamey » September 21st, 2018, 6:14 pm

rumpelstilskin wrote:
September 21st, 2018, 4:41 pm
small update: seems that paranoia poison is genuinely bugged (after some patch i presume). it's not present in the mastery list even if you add it on a new character. however, i was able to do some editing on the save game files. it's far from a full respec editor, but i was able to unpack a save, make some minor changes, and repack it again. at the very least, i can reliably add free skill points to a character.
Out of curiosity, how are the save files compressed? I can't get 7zip to decompress it. I'd like to see if I can fix my most acute problems by a quick edit to a character.

User avatar
Eirynfox
Initiate
Posts: 4
Joined: September 2nd, 2018, 4:55 am

Re: Any one know how to re-spec?

Post by Eirynfox » September 21st, 2018, 9:02 pm

Ugh, so people complained about re-spec? Then they took this out because people complained? Wow. I'm amazed. If people don't want it then don't use it! Why take it out when others needed it?
Maybe a better idea would have been putting it into easy mode and taking it out of hard mode? So many better options than just removing it all together.

Hieronymous Alloy
Acolyte
Posts: 51
Joined: September 21st, 2018, 9:50 pm

Re: Any one know how to re-spec?

Post by Hieronymous Alloy » September 21st, 2018, 9:53 pm

oh lord, they had a respec option in beta and they took it out?

I assumed they just never got around to programming one!

*sigh*

Lanatir
Explorer
Posts: 261
Joined: March 22nd, 2012, 7:43 am

Re: Any one know how to re-spec?

Post by Lanatir » September 21st, 2018, 10:31 pm

Eirynfox wrote:
September 21st, 2018, 9:02 pm
Ugh, so people complained about re-spec? Then they took this out because people complained? Wow. I'm amazed. If people don't want it then don't use it! Why take it out when others needed it?
Maybe a better idea would have been putting it into easy mode and taking it out of hard mode? So many better options than just removing it all together.
No, people said they didnt want FREE respecs, so INXILE announced that in the game there would be respecs for mercenary tokens. And, as usual, they didnt follow up on their announcement, instead completely removed the option to respec unannounced, and are now blaming the backers for the removal. THAT is the story.

User avatar
rumpelstilskin
Acolyte
Posts: 76
Joined: September 25th, 2014, 9:02 am

Re: Any one know how to re-spec?

Post by rumpelstilskin » September 22nd, 2018, 4:54 am

Jamey wrote:
September 21st, 2018, 6:14 pm
rumpelstilskin wrote:
September 21st, 2018, 4:41 pm
small update: seems that paranoia poison is genuinely bugged (after some patch i presume). it's not present in the mastery list even if you add it on a new character. however, i was able to do some editing on the save game files. it's far from a full respec editor, but i was able to unpack a save, make some minor changes, and repack it again. at the very least, i can reliably add free skill points to a character.
Out of curiosity, how are the save files compressed? I can't get 7zip to decompress it. I'd like to see if I can fix my most acute problems by a quick edit to a character.
it's a custom file format. they split it into 128k chunks and compress every chunk with zlib (it's a c++ library, which uses zip compression i think). maybe i'll make a full standalone packer/unpacker app. but my problem with paranoia poison is resolved - it's just used as a trinket now. before it was a separate ability that you could only activate if you had the poison in your trinket slot, but the way it's now of course makes more sense.

NemoNoone
Initiate
Posts: 1
Joined: September 22nd, 2018, 6:25 am

Re: Any one know how to re-spec?

Post by NemoNoone » September 22nd, 2018, 6:31 am

rumpelstilskin wrote:
September 22nd, 2018, 4:54 am
it's a custom file format. they split it into 128k chunks and compress every chunk with zlib (it's a c++ library, which uses zip compression i think). maybe i'll make a full standalone packer/unpacker app. but my problem with paranoia poison is resolved - it's just used as a trinket now. before it was a separate ability that you could only activate if you had the poison in your trinket slot, but the way it's now of course makes more sense.
A packer/unpacker would be great or a quick guide on how to do it.

Jamey
Acolyte
Posts: 76
Joined: November 8th, 2014, 6:15 pm

Re: Any one know how to re-spec?

Post by Jamey » September 22nd, 2018, 7:09 am

rumpelstilskin wrote:
September 22nd, 2018, 4:54 am
it's a custom file format. they split it into 128k chunks and compress every chunk with zlib (it's a c++ library, which uses zip compression i think). maybe i'll make a full standalone packer/unpacker app. but my problem with paranoia poison is resolved - it's just used as a trinket now. before it was a separate ability that you could only activate if you had the poison in your trinket slot, but the way it's now of course makes more sense.
Thanks. There's a thread about this topic here:
viewtopic.php?f=43&t=19515

I'm going to take discussions of this to that thread and leave this one for respeccing. :)

nwreed
Initiate
Posts: 2
Joined: September 24th, 2018, 9:04 am

Re: Any one know how to re-spec?

Post by nwreed » September 24th, 2018, 9:19 am

The lack of ability to respec (particularly with how it prevents you from making a decent cleric) along with the lack of fast travel/a decent save system etc. means that this game is getting uninstalled for me until/unless there's a game of the year edition at some point that fixes it.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests