Your Ideal Party Members

For all Bard's Tale IV discussion that does not fit elsewhere, suggestions, feedback, etc. No spoilers allowed.

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Your Ideal Party Members

Post by phimseto » January 12th, 2018, 1:03 pm

As we’re playing/testing The Bard’s Tale IV, something that’s come up internally is: which fantasy character would you most want to team up with on an adventure? It’s led to some animated discussions about the pros and cons of various suggestions. It was a fun exchange, so we’ve decided to take the conversation public! Which fantasy character from books/movies/etc. would *you* love to team up with?

I had some suggestions of my own, but I'll wait until the thread has been on for a while before weighing in.

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Re: Your Ideal Party Members

Post by Drool » January 12th, 2018, 4:03 pm

Oh, no. Please. Please don't tell me you're planning a "cute" Easter Egg referencing some random fantasy character. Please don't let this be a sign that BT4 is going to spend all its time winking at the player.

That said, Alias.
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Re: Your Ideal Party Members

Post by kingfelix » January 12th, 2018, 5:02 pm

Nicomo Cosca from the Dan Abercrombie books would be entertaining to travel with! So would Martin Silenus from Hyperion.

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Re: Your Ideal Party Members

Post by _noblesse_oblige_ » January 12th, 2018, 7:30 pm

Firstly, I would prefer if all the characters that I "teamed up" with were player characters that I created and not an assortment of NPCs foisted upon the party at various stages of the game.

But, with that out of the way:
  • The story of Túrin Turambar from J.R.R. Tolkien's Silmarillion is one of my favorites, a person larger than life and the subject of great tragedy - to adventure beside that man would be to adventure beside a legend of the ages.
  • Aviendha from Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series was one of the best-developed (and most admirable) characters in those books. I like her code of honor, her blend of wildness and discipline, her passion, and her high level of competence. However, I hope not to encounter any Fichti spear maiden modeled after her in the game, as I will regard it as a major heresy against her awesomeness.
  • Conan the Cimmerian from Robert Howard's stories about his Hyborian Age would be fun to hang out with for all his wildness, brash courage, and quick-witted survival instincts.
  • Aragorn from J.R.R. Tolkien's Lord of the Rings books would make a great companion for his wisdom, stern and unfaltering will, and great skillfulness in many areas. Similarly for Faramir, son of the steward of Gondor, in those same books.
  • I also hold Éowyn of Rohan from that series in high regard for many of the same reasons that I like Aviendha above.
But, to reiterate, I would not want to see any of the above, or even their strong likenesses, appear in BT IV. None of them are a fit for it and I would prefer to keep fantasy worlds separate. This was purely a thought exercise about who I would like to have an adventure with, not who I would like to have a BT IV adventure with.
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Re: Your Ideal Party Members

Post by ZiN » January 12th, 2018, 11:56 pm

- 1 or 2 bards (elven female and half-elf male), depending on how bards playing multiple instruments work.
- At least 2 magic-users.
- One super tank (warrior or paladin).
- A few open spots for spellbound, summoned, or recruited monsters.

As for NPCs: I prefer mysterious ones, who don't talk much, look badass and are a major force to be reckoned with in combat. Remember, this is the revival of an old-school dungeon-crawler, so while there are many well-written, complex, interesting personages in literature, which I like, I don't think I'd like to team up with any of them in Bard's Tale; So:

Vhailor, animated suit of Mercykiller armor (PlaneScape Torment).
Sss'ra, draconian warlock of Myrror (Master of Magic).
Darkstorm, minotaur warlock of Enroth (Might & Magic).
Rodan Lewarx, umpani lord. (Wizardry).

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Re: Your Ideal Party Members

Post by Lord of Riva » January 13th, 2018, 1:32 am

Drool wrote:
January 12th, 2018, 4:03 pm
Oh, no. Please. Please don't tell me you're planning a "cute" Easter Egg referencing some random fantasy character. Please don't let this be a sign that BT4 is going to spend all its time winking at the player.
i could have answered first and would have said the same, (probably in worse english ;) ) this is a bit worrying.

I wouldnt mind a Samuel Vimes like character. However, Original Characters are simply better, easter-eggs like this would be cringeworthy for me as well.

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Re: Your Ideal Party Members

Post by Zombra » January 13th, 2018, 9:59 am

I wonder if they're looking for ideas for voice acting for party members!

I definitely don't want to meet Bandalf the Wizard or Ponan the Barbarian in BT4. I certainly don't want to meet "guy doing an impression of Jim Carrey" or "guy doing an impression of Winston Churchill" ... or even "guy doing an impression of Richard O'Brien".

I would like to see strong personalities in the voice acted roles though. Not based on ripping off an existing character or "distinctive likeness", but just put together from basic traits. A guy who seems kind of angry and often mentions food. An impatient woman who wants to do everything in a hurry and can't pronounce her Rs. A laid back guy who always suggests violence first. Things like this. Go through the voices in Wizardry 8's character creation screen, or the recruitment screen in Jagged Alliance 1, and you should get some good ideas. (But don't copy characters!)

I don't really have favorite characters from fantasy, but I'll mention a few favorite heroes from comics instead: Flaming Carrot; Reid Fleming, World's Toughest Milkman; Donald Duck; the Tick; Buck Godot - Zap Gun For Hire. Characters like these - with glaring flaws as well as strengths - make their stories interesting.
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Re: Your Ideal Party Members

Post by Orpheus the Bard » January 14th, 2018, 8:33 pm

When I first got the game back in 89. I think I used characters from those B Grade action film set in the dark ages mixed with a bit of fantasy. I think my favourite there was DEATH-STALKER. Surely you know these films if you play this game & that name went on to be used as one of the range of Razor Keyboards I was planning I buying some time, but couldn't afford that one and purchased the Ornata, after retiring my failing Widow-Maker (some keys are missing :( )to a older computer.

I think made him a warrior. Human warrior of course, just like his movie counterpart & I fell into the habit of inviting friends over to show-off the computer game equivalent of what passed for AD&D without realising it's lack of group play appeal, & aside from the Pool of Radience game I purchased at the same time which played a larger a role in actually being that computer game equivalent! My friends initially declined my invitation, much to my disappointment, but finally relented on a later occasion.

So, I had some interesting character names with one Monty Python & the Holy Grail reference. But I won't go there, since that was not for the Bard's Tale game, the faulty one I that where I could only have a party of adventurers roaming the town of Skara-Brae and never the starter dungeon & beyond the town gates. One of my friends who fancied them-self to have real life occult connections called his Orc Mage 666. Eventually, there was a adventurer belonging to each of my former role playing game groupies.

Of course, Orpheus (The Bard) came from a long list of names I got out of a large book of ancient world mythology and real world history. The fact that he was also a hobbit in the game was just random to me. Chuckling to myself right now as I think he could very well have been called Homer (Famous for a Iliad (I had to look that one up just now.) & the infamous Odyssey (Knew that one, but needed to spell check it.) as that well known Simpsons cartoon debuted about the same time. I really did know much about real Orpheus and his eventual fate. To quote the wisdom in Drizz't Do' Urden's words, "Everyone Dies". (Eventually...... or Psychotically, Everyone Dies (Right now!)

Fast forward to present day now, and my late forays into Thief of Fate. I wanted to make my own party of adventurer's after murdering A-Team & eventually recruiting the Interplayers to raise enough gold to resurrect them. For some reason, that game no longer gives out starting gold, or never did really. You know why, I wanted that, didn't you? Other names I have know fallen into the habit of using are....

Myrddin Wylt - Which is supposedly another name for Merlin or his real name even. Look it up if you doubt me. Of course he is a spell-caster.

BuffytheSlayer - No one should misunderstand this name if they have been alive for the last 20 years. There is only one Buffy, despite what might come up if I put into name in search engine and I know about do with the same in The Sims Pets. Of course, I love he television series and used to watch same episode up to three to four times a day while reading the synopsis, famous quotes, and other trivia from the Buffy Wiki-pages and IMDB.com every days for months over and over again until I broke the habit when the series was finally taken off the air. Lately, I have the Buffy regulars in X-com Two along with the original Ghost-Busters (Now there's a idea
"Back off. I'm a Science-Mage" (I wonder if that could be worked into the game as another annoying Easter Egg.) if they weren't any thing else.) Suicide Squad, and then I had to uninstall that game since it could handle the excessive modding. Yeah, the game just kept crashing and I kept using the Buffy name in other game like the Pool of Radience redux for Neverwinter Nights Two. Naturally, she had to be a Monk , either Human, half-elf or a hot looking Gnome (If you go by the Forgotten Realm's D20 standards for that meta-type.) At last I made her a Hobbit, by accident or boredom. Considering they're tendency for forced celibacy and her watcher's tendency to monitor and limit Buffy's social life. She didn't have much of social life, well, not always.

Aeon-Fux - (Yes, exactly how I spelt it too.) A play on words of the animation and film of similar name. It's kind of rude & she was Half-Elf or human Monk, of course.

Lampades - Who was the name for a Warrior Caste of Nymphs from Greek myths. Some thing I read about while playing Age of Mythology. It may turn out to be a ficticous kernel of info belonging to that game only, but this was the last of my troupe of female monks. Aside from the very silly Lady-Beard Pants. (More about that a little further on.)

Galadriel & Gandalf made it into my list of adventures. Galadriel is still being used in game, but dead and waiting for resurrection. Sadly like every other one above her listed here.

Randy Blade & Rusty-Blade. The former could have been a porn star. Both are Half-Orcs and I know the latter is a Hunter. I love making Half-Orc Hunter's.

Lastly, one of the teams of players I had to create to raise gold to resurrect the earlier ones were given sillier names to reflect how much I wasn't going to keep them after they had saved the entire back log of my A list.

Sir-No Beard the male Human Paladin.

Lady Beard Pants the female Dwarf fighter type. Don't recall her exact designation exactly and the name might be a reference to the excessive body hair of female dwarves. Was she wearing that or going au'natural ;)

Memory starting to fail, but pretty sure I had a adventuring party filled with just Dwarves as physical adepts and a human healer at the back called The Last Man and a male.

That's all for now.
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Re: Your Ideal Party Members

Post by thebruce » January 15th, 2018, 9:00 am

Agreed with all the sentiments above. And expanding what Orpheus said - I think we can all agree that when we played the classics, we'd name all/some of our characters as references or spoofs to other characters from other properties we enjoyed or thought might fit a role. But that's us creating our own characters, not BT giving them to us.

That said, there were obviously some inside joke nods as items and characters in the classics, but if you didn't know the reference, they weren't obvious; they seemed to fit right in. As a youth I had no idea that Ybarra was the last name of a developer, or where the 'holy hand grenade' came from (though I was younger, and I'm sure there are people who got the ref immediately). But when I learned of some of these types of 'inside jokes', it was long afer I'd fully enjoyed the games, and got a nice chuckle from it. That's the type of 'easter egg' I think we'd all appreciate more than fairly blatant plays on words and names.

Remember, we'd like to be immersed in the game, not pulled out with meta references or out of place humour... please keep it a serious/relevant(contextual humour, of course) game!
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Re: Your Ideal Party Members

Post by Zombra » January 15th, 2018, 11:16 am

thebruce wrote:
January 15th, 2018, 9:00 am
I think we can all agree that when we played the classics, we'd name all/some of our characters as references or spoofs to other characters from other properties we enjoyed or thought might fit a role. But that's us creating our own characters, not BT giving them to us.
Maybe I'm weird, but I never did this. From my earliest D&D characters, any I created were original. From my halfling Zik in a home brew P&P game to Zombor the orc-blooded in my first Bard's Tale party, I made up names and personalities with no intention of recreating any existing character. I may have unconsciously ripped off a few ideas but I never meant to.
thebruce wrote:
January 15th, 2018, 9:00 am
That said, there were obviously some inside joke nods as items and characters in the classics, but if you didn't know the reference, they weren't obvious; they seemed to fit right in. As a youth I had no idea that Ybarra was the last name of a developer, or where the 'holy hand grenade' came from (though I was younger, and I'm sure there are people who got the ref immediately). But when I learned of some of these types of 'inside jokes', it was long afer I'd fully enjoyed the games, and got a nice chuckle from it. That's the type of 'easter egg' I think we'd all appreciate more than fairly blatant plays on words and names.
The subtler the better. In fact, so subtle I never ever notice them at all would be my preference (i.e. they're not there in the first place). The pop culture reference is among the lowest and cheapest forms of humor. I love Monty Python too, I really do, and going around quoting them as a kid was a good way to develop our ability to perform and be funny later in life - but for anyone but a kid to do it is a little sad. Make original stuff.

Note that remakes or new renditions of old material can be wonderful. I'm not saying no one should perform Shakespeare ever again, or that writing a new novel based on the structure of a classic is a bad idea. I just prefer it when such an homage is central to the concept of a work.
thebruce wrote:
January 15th, 2018, 9:00 am
Remember, we'd like to be immersed in the game, not pulled out with meta references or out of place humour... please keep it a serious/relevant(contextual humour, of course) game!
Strongly agree. Particularly in Bard's Tale 4 which is heavily invested in setting a mood. I expect some wall-breaking in something like Wasteland - it's kind of part of the series identity there - but not here. Let's have a setting with some integrity.
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Re: Your Ideal Party Members

Post by Lord of Riva » January 15th, 2018, 11:42 am

for one all seem to agree, i am totally amazed :D

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Re: Your Ideal Party Members

Post by ZZGO » January 15th, 2018, 1:59 pm

Zombra wrote:
January 15th, 2018, 11:16 am
Maybe I'm weird, but I never did this. From my earliest D&D characters, any I created were original. From my halfling Zik in a home brew P&P game to Zombor the orc-blooded in my first Bard's Tale party, I made up names and personalities with no intention of recreating any existing character. I may have unconsciously ripped off a few ideas but I never meant to.
+1, same here.
In fact, I created a pool of original character concepts for the original Bard's Tale that keep popping up in my roleplaying to this day, as cRPG characters or tabletop NPCs: For example, "Shingan" will always be an unsavory rogue/thief/martial artist of highly questionable lineage from the gutters, and "Trebor" will always be a half-elven or at least fair mannish priest/druid type character, no matter what game I'm playing. But when they were first thought up for the Bard's Tale over three decades ago by a kid who barely spoke enough english to read and understand the game's manual, they started out as a half-orc hunter and a half-elf conjurer.

As for the original question, Bard's Tale was never a funny or snarky game. It was epic with a totally straight face, and the NPCs I remember most are those interesting characters about whom I always wanted to know more.
What kept Kylearan from doing more to help Skara Brae?
Why did Roscoe work for Mangar, to the point of building stuff in Mangar's Tower?
Who was Baron Harkyn, and was he a good or bad guy in the overall picture?
What was the story of Oscon, or Dargoth?
And, of course, Hawkslayer...
Humor doesn't (and shouldn't) have to be shoehorned in. Regarding all the Monty Python references, my impression was that they were primarily snuck in by Becky Heinemann in the ports and in BT3. There were genuinely fun minutiae such as the "cute" princess in Tangramayne. But overall, it was pretty serious dungeon crawling business.

The 2004 approach wasn't bad per se, but it was its own thing and didn't work for me in a Bard's Tale context. I wouldn't expect BT4 to go down that route. (Didn't play myself, but watched a friend play it for some time.)

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Re: Your Ideal Party Members

Post by Woolfe » January 15th, 2018, 10:49 pm

Zombra wrote:
January 15th, 2018, 11:16 am
thebruce wrote:
January 15th, 2018, 9:00 am
I think we can all agree that when we played the classics, we'd name all/some of our characters as references or spoofs to other characters from other properties we enjoyed or thought might fit a role. But that's us creating our own characters, not BT giving them to us.
Maybe I'm weird, but I never did this. From my earliest D&D characters, any I created were original. From my halfling Zik in a home brew P&P game to Zombor the orc-blooded in my first Bard's Tale party, I made up names and personalities with no intention of recreating any existing character. I may have unconsciously ripped off a few ideas but I never meant to.
Not weird, all my characters were original as well. Though not in Bard's Tale, as I never played the originals at the time.

They may transfer between worlds but I always create unique characters, even when they may be somewhat generic (Mythril my Dwarf Warrior/Priest).
Zombra wrote:
January 15th, 2018, 11:16 am
thebruce wrote:
January 15th, 2018, 9:00 am
That said, there were obviously some inside joke nods as items and characters in the classics, but if you didn't know the reference, they weren't obvious; they seemed to fit right in. As a youth I had no idea that Ybarra was the last name of a developer, or where the 'holy hand grenade' came from (though I was younger, and I'm sure there are people who got the ref immediately). But when I learned of some of these types of 'inside jokes', it was long afer I'd fully enjoyed the games, and got a nice chuckle from it. That's the type of 'easter egg' I think we'd all appreciate more than fairly blatant plays on words and names.
The subtler the better. In fact, so subtle I never ever notice them at all would be my preference (i.e. they're not there in the first place). The pop culture reference is among the lowest and cheapest forms of humor. I love Monty Python too, I really do, and going around quoting them as a kid was a good way to develop our ability to perform and be funny later in life - but for anyone but a kid to do it is a little sad. Make original stuff.

Note that remakes or new renditions of old material can be wonderful. I'm not saying no one should perform Shakespeare ever again, or that writing a new novel based on the structure of a classic is a bad idea. I just prefer it when such an homage is central to the concept of a work.
Aye, I am kind of over the referential stuff. I don't need to see it. And sometimes it sticks out like a sore thumb.
Zombra wrote:
January 15th, 2018, 11:16 am
thebruce wrote:
January 15th, 2018, 9:00 am
Remember, we'd like to be immersed in the game, not pulled out with meta references or out of place humour... please keep it a serious/relevant(contextual humour, of course) game!
Strongly agree. Particularly in Bard's Tale 4 which is heavily invested in setting a mood. I expect some wall-breaking in something like Wasteland - it's kind of part of the series identity there - but not here. Let's have a setting with some integrity.
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Re: Your Ideal Party Members

Post by thebruce » January 16th, 2018, 6:27 am

I did say "all/some" and "I think" :P geez people, lol. Yeah many of my characters were original names, but I'd occasionally throw in a play on a name from somewhere else, usually because I couldn't think of an original name :)

BT2004 was a very different game than BT1-3, so as long as the feel is more classic than met nods, I'll be content in that respect. I'll quote here what I said in another thread, and I like the ring it has to it.

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Re: Your Ideal Party Members

Post by Gizmo » January 16th, 2018, 10:21 am

Zombra wrote:
January 15th, 2018, 11:16 am
Maybe I'm weird, but I never did this. From my earliest D&D characters, any I created were original. From my halfling Zik in a home brew P&P game to Zombor the orc-blooded in my first Bard's Tale party, I made up names and personalities with no intention of recreating any existing character. I may have unconsciously ripped off a few ideas but I never meant to.
Same here.

**Funny though: I once called Black Isle technical support to mention that an NPC that I'd recruited in BG2, had joined the party using my character's last name, and I'd wondered if it was a script error. I turned out to be the name for that character... but I had made my PC in BG1, and completed the game with it, and later, when BG2 was released, I bought it, and imported my BG1 party into it. It was just an odd coincidence with the names.

My PC name was Kraven BloodAxe, and the BG2 NPC was named Korgan BloodAxe.

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Re: Your Ideal Party Members

Post by Zombra » January 16th, 2018, 10:24 am

thebruce wrote:
January 16th, 2018, 6:27 am
I did say "all/some" and "I think" :P geez people, lol. Yeah many of my characters were original names, but I'd occasionally throw in a play on a name from somewhere else, usually because I couldn't think of an original name :)
Sometimes I rip off names, either from fiction or more often from history. My fantasy crime boss Cicero wasn't meant to evoke the Roman politician, it was just his name. I only have so much creativity to name Woobledoob, Wizard #388. :P
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Re: Your Ideal Party Members

Post by Orpheus the Bard » January 18th, 2018, 8:13 am

Gizmo wrote:
January 16th, 2018, 10:21 am
Zombra wrote:
January 15th, 2018, 11:16 am
Maybe I'm weird, but I never did this. From my earliest D&D characters, any I created were original. From my halfling Zik in a home brew P&P game to Zombor the orc-blooded in my first Bard's Tale party, I made up names and personalities with no intention of recreating any existing character. I may have unconsciously ripped off a few ideas but I never meant to.
Same here.

**Funny though: I once called Black Isle technical support to mention that an NPC that I'd recruited in BG2, had joined the party using my character's last name, and I'd wondered if it was a script error. I turned out to be the name for that character... but I had made my PC in BG1, and completed the game with it, and later, when BG2 was released, I bought it, and imported my BG1 party into it. It was just an odd coincidence with the names.

My PC name was Kraven BloodAxe, and the BG2 NPC was named Korgan BloodAxe.
Sounds like something I must have done when coming up with a name for the very first Character I rolled up for TSR's Pool of Radience. Which you mau know I brought at around about the same time purchased one of the earlier Bard's Tale games. I called my human warrior Hawkslayer and now I know why. It was used somewhere in the backing story documentation for Bard's Tale (One or Two.) I always thought I got that name from the cult fantasy film Hawk the Slayer. Any The TSR games and these ones here are differenr when you get into them, but with a similar premice.

BTW, Hawk-Slayer got a naturally rolled 18 for Strength, (With a High percentile score that I can't remember.) Dexterity & Constitution. A natural hero. I now also understand this reflects my attitude about the importance of having higher physical stats over social, mental stats, since I thought I could get away with that if I roleplayed my charges correctly. These days I wouldn't care so much, You can ge by with any combination of ststa with good roleplaying.
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Re: Your Ideal Party Members

Post by Zadkiel » January 18th, 2018, 3:34 pm

phimseto wrote:
January 12th, 2018, 1:03 pm
As we’re playing/testing The Bard’s Tale IV, something that’s come up internally is: which fantasy character would you most want to team up with on an adventure? It’s led to some animated discussions about the pros and cons of various suggestions. It was a fun exchange, so we’ve decided to take the conversation public! Which fantasy character from books/movies/etc. would *you* love to team up with?

I had some suggestions of my own, but I'll wait until the thread has been on for a while before weighing in.
Dear god, please No. Just No.

Nothing would break my immersion and ruin my gaming experience quicker than suddenly meeting Gandalf or having Drizzt join my party...

This is the most worrying thing I've read on this forum.

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Re: Your Ideal Party Members

Post by Gizmo » January 18th, 2018, 4:30 pm

I have to second the sentiment. I am certainly not looking forward to NPC personalities based on recognizable characters. I don't want to meet up with Konan the Barbarian, or Sue Bow-tie the archer/thief.

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Re: Your Ideal Party Members

Post by Lord of Riva » January 19th, 2018, 2:58 am

@Phimseto if i may inquire as this is pretty much consensus what exactly is it you guys want to do and what are your ideas?

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