Other First-Person Turn-Based Party-Based RPGs

[meganothing]

...And you have missed the tail end of that quote you've mangled.
(Setting it deftly out of context.)

That we ALSO talked about other examples doesn't mean we didn't talk about the iron door.

That means, grand passage of time in game (day/night cycle) = ok; realtime combat/puzzles where win/lose outcomes are decided upon by choices you are forced to make (meaning incorrect choice or lack of choice = lose) within short time frames = not ok.

Is that a brief and concise enough summary of our position?

It is a position I could sign without hesitation. But I could be persuaded to compromise a lot further on the not-ok part, allowing challenges in the minutes time frame. I don't think I would lose much by this. Because BT4 has to have a "the baby cries/mother calls/I have to go" emergency save in one way or another I can always stop that timer by just exiting the game.

[thebruce]

The only thing I have about the 'emergency' issue is that there are loads of games out there that are completely realtime (whether FPS or RPG). How do people deal with emergencies in times like that? They have a pause option (unless it's online multiplayer; yet somehow people deal with those situations ). If BT4 were to have realtime mechanics, it would need to have a pause option. That also means being able to pause within a BT2 Snare (I think that is probably the most legitimately infuriating thing about those snares). If there's a pause, then localized immediate emergencies are a non-issue.
Game saves is a different beast.

[Gizmo]

realtime combat/puzzles where win/lose outcomes are decided upon by choices you are forced to make (meaning incorrect choice or lack of choice = lose) within short time frames = not ok.

Why on Earth not? Do you not recall that monsters can attack while the party is loitering in place? That spells expire in realtime? Presumably if there are underwater areas, the party can drown in realtime; or would you expect it done in staggered phased rounds?

What exactly do you have against ~for instance, a room that locks when the party enters, and has a puzzle on the wall; and the walls start closing in after a moment, and the party has two minutes to solve the puzzle ~or be crushed.

[thebruce]

realtime combat/puzzles where win/lose outcomes are decided upon by choices you are forced to make (meaning incorrect choice or lack of choice = lose) within short time frames = not ok.

Why on Earth not?

Because that is our preference.

Do you not recall that monsters can attack while the party is loitering in place? That spells expire in realtime? Presumably if there are underwater areas, the party can drown in realtime; or would you expect it done in staggered phased rounds?

Please note "somewhere in between", and the specific examples. Your examples would fall closer, for us, to the passage of day/night, than to realtime combat and puzzle solving. You can't dispute that, that is our opinion about such mechanics.

What exactly do you have against ~for instance, a room that locks when the party enters, and has a puzzle on the wall; and the walls start closing in after a moment, and the party has two minutes to solve the puzzle ~or be crushed.

It's not Bard's Tale [classic].
With the exception of BT2's controversial Snares.
We don't think they belong in BT, that's it.
Please don't attempt to say we're wrong, just accept that we have a different opinion and preference than you, apparently

[Themadcow]

For anyone with their head stuck in the sand, GOG have now re-released the Forgotten Realms (EOTB, Gold Box) games for a very reasonable price. OK, you can download most of them for free if you wanted to, but I'd happily pay £7 for the effort they made to bring them out again and the convenience of the Galaxy launcher and less-hassle (removal of copy protection etc, DOSbox config) tweaks they've made.

The Gold Box games were the 3rd best oldschool CRPG series ever IMO, behind BT and Wizardry.

[ssfsx17]

Stranger of Sword City has been out for some time, although I had not initially remembered this topic when I first cleared it.

It features a much more personal and emotional storyline than you might expect from a dungeoncrawler with six customizable characters. Its art style is, much like Elminage: Gothic, distinctly japanese while still not being "anime" in any stereotypical sense. Although the game contains a lot of anime options for character portraits. It allows characters to change classes something like 5 or 6 times, gaining stat boosts each time, such that you would strive to make super-characters who can clear the bonus dungeons.

By the same developers, Ray Gigant has also been out for some time. It is unfortunately not as good as Stranger of Sword City, and is focused on having pre-set parties of three characters. It is pretty darned anime, which will turn some of you off. But I enjoyed it for what it was, something to pass the time while waiting for bigger and better dungeoncrawlers to be released.

[demeisen]

Do any of you DW owners have any idea how to update the game? I bought it apparently in 2006, which is some time ago now. At the time it was quite unstable for me and crashed too much to practically play, so it's been sitting on my disk mostly forgotten ever since. Is the stability situation better now, especially for Linux? And how on earth do you update it? My purchase mail said the member's site was http://renhall.devilwhiskey.com, but that domain no longer resolves. I be willing to just buy it again on GOG if it's stable these days, except I looked, and it isn't available on GOG

[Crosmando]

Do any of you DW owners have any idea how to update the game? I bought it apparently in 2006, which is some time ago now. At the time it was quite unstable for me and crashed too much to practically play, so it's been sitting on my disk mostly forgotten ever since. Is the stability situation better now, especially for Linux? And how on earth do you update it? My purchase mail said the member's site was http://renhall.devilwhiskey.com, but that domain no longer resolves. I be willing to just buy it again on GOG if it's stable these days, except I looked, and it isn't available on GOG

DW is owned by Decklin's Domain nowadays. The final patch is 2.0.

I own DW over on Gamer's Gate (https://www.gamersgate.com/DD-DEWH/devil-whiskey), the installer you download there is just the 2.0 version, no previous versions or patches are listed. There's a Linux version too, which I assume is 2.0 also. I gave it a quick google but I wasn't able to find any DW linux patches, only the windows ones.

I'd also mention that there's a really good unofficial "Megamod" around which includes bug fixes, new quests, etc:
http://www.weekendwastemonster.net/crpgs/dw/dw.html

[demeisen]

Thanks Crosmando . I think I may have bought mine through a Humble Bundle, or at least, it wasn't through the Gamer's Gate store. Maybe if I do enough email searching, I'll discover how I downloaded it in the first place...

[Crosmando]

I do believe that there was some kind of big RPG sale on Humble Bundle which included DW some time ago.

[Jademonk]

Since I don't think they've been mentioned, I'll toss in the Phantasie series, and Legacy of the Ancients.

[Ranger1]

StarCrawlers is releasing soon and is well worth checking out.

[Crosmando]

StarCrawlers is releasing soon and is well worth checking out.

Yep, the 23rd. The game only has 4 character slots and no front/back line though, but pickers can't be choosers I guess.

[ZiN]

StarCrawlers is releasing soon and is well worth checking out.

Indeed, i can vouch for StarCrawlers as well. I have backed it and so far i haven't regretted it (unlike several other early-access titles). 3 years in development, the developer was very communicative, active and listened to feedback (check out the Steam discussions). I'd say it was an exemplary early-access game. And it's out right now!

[ssfsx17]

Operation Abyss: New Tokyo Legacy and Operation Babel: New Tokyo Legacy have been released for a few months. They adhere more closely to Wizardry 1-3 and 5. Their artstyle and stories are quite anime, but the gameplay is certainly up to par. They were developed by Experience Inc, the same devs as Stranger of Sword City.

Overall - even if The Bard's Tale 4 should end up being disappointing, it seems that there are plenty of these types of games to keep us busy for as long as the classic games did. Hopefully, though, The Bard's Tale 4 ends up being fun, and can push the genre further.

[farland]

right now I'm playing griomoire its a awesome game

[Themadcow]

right now I'm playing griomoire its a awesome game

Grimoire is definitely very fun once you look past the UI and erm, odd bug. Best Wizardry style blobber for some time but it's highly, highly recommended to read some party and beginners guides before starting out (e.g. a diseased character is a dead man walking unless you heal it quickly - and how to heal it isn't obvious).

[Crosmando]

Also the graphics are very nostalgic and just a good example of pixel art done right.

[grantrob202]

Not a turn-based game but please don't forget the excellent "BLACK CRYPT"

[ssfsx17]

Elminage: Original has been out on Steam for a few months.

It's mostly an orthodox Wizardry-like, except of course with Elminage's signature classes. Unlike Elminage Gothic, it has automapping as well as a constantly-displayed minimap.