Wasteland 3: tell us your stretch goal ideas

Discussion about the upcoming Wasteland 3!

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Simcc79
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Re: Wasteland 3: tell us your stretch goal ideas

Post by Simcc79 » April 10th, 2017, 11:11 am

I have always been a big fan of fallout series ever since fallout 1 came out and i like the stories and the freedom to do what you want in the game. After playing all the fallout including the bethesda versions and also wasteland 2, i find that i have a thirst to influence the people in the game and my action means something to the story line. So hopefully wasteland 3 can cover the below;

1. Total freedom of choice
- i have the freedom to be pure good or pure evil etc.
- no restriction on any child killing or doing bad things etc.

2. Base or home building
- having played fallout 4 i really love the idea of building settlements
- even if i cant build settlements in wasteland 3 i do hope we can have the option to choose where to build our base and hopefully small supply outpost
- customization of base or home should be fun and hopefully i can have those
- craft-able weapons or build new weapons, ammo, vehicle etc (customization of vehicle is a must, i want a different color car every time)

3. Open world concept
- makes the game more re-playable
- in wasteland 2, there is no reason to revisit a place that you have cleared and that really narrow the game down alot
- make every settlement have a radiant quest like clear raider, setup water or farm etc.

4. Influence the world
- this i find that all fallout games and wasteland failed to achieve this
- take fallout tactic for example, i love that game and story being a military group and help retake the settlement etc but after every mission no reason to revisit the place or worst no improvement of the settlement after you have save them etc
- take fallout 2 for example, cleaning up new reno and you cant take over the rest of the gangs place like earning income from casino, drug business or alcohol business etc.
- take fallout 4 for example, there is no real improvement in diamond city even when you have cleared the hostiles in the surrounding.
- i really hope that our action in game can influence the growth of the settlement or the downfall of it.
- if i wanna play a bad guy i hope the settlement i saved or help turn into a drug den, prostitute zone etc

5. Real impact on settlements
- i hope that the game can link our actions to each settlement for example the growth of population and bigger shop etc.
- if we decide not to help any settlement i hope that the next visit the settlement will hate you or slowly dying off etc.
- take wasteland 2 as example, if i didnt save highpool and it got destroyed, why can i rebuild it later? settlers will choose to settle in new places right rather than leave it a dead town.

6. Playable factions
- i hope that there is some factions to choose from. We can always start as desert rangers but maybe choose to switch side like join the raider kill the rangers and enslave the settlements etc.
- maybe i wanna play a crazy monk so i can turn the world to my will?
- i dont want to just influence the faction base on the decision but rather join in and make a difference.

7. Hardcore mode
- sleep, drink and eat or die
- time limit to safe a settlement under attack or they switch faction support etc
- for every lost of a teammate or civilians makes it harder or more costly to recruit new ones as people dont generally like to side the losing side.
- radiation damage and mutation without proper protection etc

I do hope that this game can be great, vehicle is a very good start and of course i always loved Brian's work.

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Re: Wasteland 3: tell us your stretch goal ideas

Post by Elderin » May 11th, 2017, 2:43 pm

Here are mine (some of these may already be there, its been a while since I've read the vision doc):

- Combat being more tactical: Flanking, height, cover, and abilities. Some of these were in WL2 but never seemed very impactful.

- Randomized loot: Loot prefixes and suffixes are nice, but these suffixes shouldn't just be stat boosts, they should add interesting gameplay mechanics like legendaries do in diablo 3. Non-randomized loot should still exist too.

- Open world: Being able to travel anywhere, even if the enemies there would destroy you.

- Stealth/Thief mechanics.

- Randomized Contract mission system.

- Steam workshop mod support. Mod creators can add new character customizations, missions, maps, weapons, ect...

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Re: Wasteland 3: tell us your stretch goal ideas

Post by Gizmo » May 11th, 2017, 2:54 pm

Elderin wrote:
May 11th, 2017, 2:43 pm
- Open world: Being able to travel anywhere, even if the enemies there would destroy you.
I like this, but I would hope for it to evaluate all locations in between points A & B, to prevent leap-frogging locations that the PC's passage would be challenged, or prevented by enemies and obstructions.

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Re: Wasteland 3: tell us your stretch goal ideas

Post by Grohal » May 12th, 2017, 1:00 am

Elderin wrote:
May 11th, 2017, 2:43 pm
Here are mine (some of these may already be there, its been a while since I've read the vision doc):

- Combat being more tactical: Flanking, height, cover, and abilities. Some of these were in WL2 but never seemed very impactful.

- Randomized loot: Loot prefixes and suffixes are nice, but these suffixes shouldn't just be stat boosts, they should add interesting gameplay mechanics like legendaries do in diablo 3. Non-randomized loot should still exist too.

- Open world: Being able to travel anywhere, even if the enemies there would destroy you.

- Stealth/Thief mechanics.

- Randomized Contract mission system.

- Steam workshop mod support. Mod creators can add new character customizations, missions, maps, weapons, ect...
I second all of those. But most of all the mod support. Skyrim for example is lacking many things in vanilla modders added - plus everyone can use the mods he thinks most important - be it better graphics or more fitting missions, locations, NPCs...
That way a game lives years longer than it would without.
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Re: Wasteland 3: tell us your stretch goal ideas

Post by undecaf » May 12th, 2017, 9:03 am

It could be neat if the dialogue offered a choice of "tone" on top of the dialog options. A gauge with options for, say, "Passionate/Normal/Indifferent".

The dialog choices themselves wouldn't change, but the NPC's response to them might alter based on the characteristics of the NPC in question. Some might respond better to a passionate approach, some to indifferent, and so on. A "passionate intimidation" might give a boost with some, scare others shitless, and annoy some others to no end; indifferent intimidation might produce some eyerolling and chuckles, or even sympathy.

(For example, trying to gouge some compensation from a trader that set you up to a rigged mission that blew on your face, the line could simply be "You set us up, you motherless fucking whore! We want double the fee or shit really starts to hit the fan!" and the responses from the NPC:
Passionate: "Whoa, ok calm down. We doun't want to make a mess here. Here's the money."
Normal: "You'd like that, wouldn't you. No results means no pay. No fuck off before I call the guards. Some rangers you are.. Pfft."
Indifferent: "Ok, you poor little fuckers have given up already. Normally I'd just fuck you over, but now I feel bad about your sorry faces. Let's make this [worse than the original] deal, and go about our businesses as usual, ok?"

And that's a higher tier situation that relates to quest outcome; normal discussion might just offer off hand remarks along the normal dialog, and only sometimes a more tangible and possibly quirky reaction.)

It needn't be a "major" feature either, just adding a touch of reactivity, flavor and consideration to the dialogs in general. Make the player think a bit more, and create a situations where the player sometimes needs to try and read the NPC's behaviror to evaluate to what kind of approach he might respond best. The game could even keep tabs under the hood about what kind of personality the party favors on a longer run, and as word goes around, the NPC's might start to respond to that too.

There'd potentially be a lot of extra dialog to be written, but that shouldn't be a shock after Torment.
Last edited by undecaf on May 12th, 2017, 9:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Wasteland 3: tell us your stretch goal ideas

Post by Gizmo » May 12th, 2017, 9:19 am

undecaf wrote:
May 12th, 2017, 9:03 am
It could be neat if the dialogue offered a choice of "tone" on top of the dialog options. A gauge with options for, say, "Passionate/Normal/Indifferent".
"Haughty, Sly, Nice, Meek, Abusive" ;)

Also, each NPC has a preference, for what they appreciate, fear, or respect. Some will take 'Nice' as a sign of weakness or gullibility; others [in context] might take "Haughty", or "Abusive" as a sign of social or military status; (and allow a bluff to succeed). Meek could be seen by some as 'harmless', or perhaps even insulting (The Black Knight, for instance)... 'Sly' might not be seen for what it is —by some; or recognized, and as an instant deal-killer by others.

You know Oblivion actually did this as well (of a sort); reduced small talk (via abstraction) down to its bare essential intents. It's one of the few aspects of the game that I actually liked.
Image

**Though the games that do this usually do so to bypass needing to have the dialog; and thus bypass the minor and/or generally repetitive nature of it.

When I first read your post, I mistook it for meaning emphasis on the text; the way the dialog was expressed by the PC. Where the same line delivered with different emphasis, could have a different impact on the listener. But that would be fairly difficult to present in plain text, with no voice-over.

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Re: Wasteland 3: tell us your stretch goal ideas

Post by undecaf » May 12th, 2017, 9:43 am

Gizmo wrote:
May 12th, 2017, 9:19 am
"Haughty, Sly, Nice, Meek, Abusive" ;)

Also, each NPC has a preference, for what they appreciate, fear, or respect. Some will take 'Nice' as a sign of weakness or gullibility; others [in context] might take "Haughty", or "Abusive" as a sign of social or military status; (and allow a bluff to succeed). Meek could be seen by some as 'harmless', or perhaps even insulting (The Black Knight, for instance)... 'Sly' might not be seen for what it is —by some; or recognized, and as an instant deal-killer by others.
I tried to keep it simple with "just three" options. :lol:
When I first read your post, I mistook it for meaning emphasis on the text; the way the dialog was expressed by the PC. Where the same line delivered with different emphasis, could have a different impact on the listener. But that would be fairly difficult to present in plain text, with no voice-over.
Well, I did have that in the back of my head whilst writing... just a tickbox at the side of the choices to choose an emphasis from is what I thought of, and possibly colour coding or otherwise specified text highlight to give off that the text is now meant to be spoken in a certain manner -- Passionate, normal, indifferent. (And perhaps a tag in the response to what the NPC is responding to --[indifferent]"You don't sound very convincing."--)... but the idea was a more general one about spicing the conventional dialog.
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Re: Wasteland 3: tell us your stretch goal ideas

Post by Gizmo » May 12th, 2017, 10:01 am

undecaf wrote:
May 12th, 2017, 9:43 am
(And perhaps a tag in the response to what the NPC is responding to --[indifferent]"You don't sound very convincing."--)... but the idea was a more general one about spicing the conventional dialog.
I like it, but I think it's been spoiled buy FO3. :D

[indifferent]"You don't sound very convincing."
[intelligence]"You don't sound very convincing."

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Re: Wasteland 3: tell us your stretch goal ideas

Post by undecaf » May 12th, 2017, 10:13 am

Gizmo wrote:
May 12th, 2017, 10:01 am
undecaf wrote:
May 12th, 2017, 9:43 am
(And perhaps a tag in the response to what the NPC is responding to --[indifferent]"You don't sound very convincing."--)... but the idea was a more general one about spicing the conventional dialog.
I like it, but I think it's been spoiled buy FO3. :D

[indifferent]"You don't sound very convincing."
[intelligence]"You don't sound very convincing."
Yeah, I get what you mean...

[intelligence]So you say Fallout 3's stat-check presentation spoiled [tags] for you?

Though, the point was that the [tag] was for the NPC, to mark that the NPC was responding to indifference. (Further thought, that's not a very good idea, NPC dialog tags, that is... it's just messy.)

There's really no need for any kind of tags as far as I'm concerned; but I also don't think it'd hurt to have some indication on what kind of tone the response is supposed to be spoken.

But this is all just spitballing stuff, anyway.
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Re: Wasteland 3: tell us your stretch goal ideas

Post by Woolfe » May 12th, 2017, 7:25 pm

undecaf wrote:
May 12th, 2017, 9:03 am
It could be neat if the dialogue offered a choice of "tone" on top of the dialog options. A gauge with options for, say, "Passionate/Normal/Indifferent".
This is something I heartily advocated in WL2 as well. The Tone is important.
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Re: Wasteland 3: tell us your stretch goal ideas

Post by Drool » May 12th, 2017, 11:01 pm

Grohal wrote:
May 12th, 2017, 1:00 am
I second all of those. But most of all the mod support.
If WL2 is any indication, they shouldn't bother.
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Re: Wasteland 3: tell us your stretch goal ideas

Post by Gizmo » May 12th, 2017, 11:21 pm

How popular were Titan Quest and Serious Sam for user modding? (Both shipped with an editor toolset). You could make your own Titan Quest mods fairly easy it seemed.

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Re: Wasteland 3: tell us your stretch goal ideas

Post by Remo » May 13th, 2017, 12:05 am

Drool wrote:
May 12th, 2017, 11:01 pm
If WL2 is any indication, they shouldn't bother.
Do you mean wouldn't instead of shouldn't? Otherwise why?

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Re: Wasteland 3: tell us your stretch goal ideas

Post by Grohal » May 13th, 2017, 12:51 am

Drool wrote:
May 12th, 2017, 11:01 pm
Grohal wrote:
May 12th, 2017, 1:00 am
I second all of those. But most of all the mod support.
If WL2 is any indication, they shouldn't bother.
Why? With Nexus-modders the possibilites would be endless.
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Re: Wasteland 3: tell us your stretch goal ideas

Post by undecaf » May 13th, 2017, 6:01 am

How possible would it be to have a "simple" modkit/tool that basically works as a more comprehensive than normal campaign editor for people to make games much like Wasteland 1 (the remastered version)?

Such that allows making/compiling an individual game not limited to using the Wasteland setting and assets.

Obviously with a bit beefed up functionality like adding music and sound, art (like deathanimations to the enemy portraits), skills (adding removing renaming), basic reactivity/dialog/mission scripting, and so on. Make your own stories and setups using Wasteland 1 as the base to build it on.
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Re: Wasteland 3: tell us your stretch goal ideas

Post by Remo » May 13th, 2017, 2:15 pm

There is no question if modding support is possible, only whether they want to provide it and to what extent. Given that they have ironed out the basics in WL2, and for WL3 they are now working on extra's (like Coop Multiplayer, Cinematic camera for Combat and more immersive first person dialogue). I think that modding support should be a priority.

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Re: Wasteland 3: tell us your stretch goal ideas

Post by Gizmo » May 13th, 2017, 2:19 pm

undecaf wrote:
May 13th, 2017, 6:01 am
How possible would it be to have a "simple" modkit/tool that basically works as a more comprehensive than normal campaign editor for people to make games much like Wasteland 1 (the remastered version)?
Three of these exist already; two pre-date Fallout.

Bard's Tale Construction Set, Dungeoncraft, and Forgotten Realms: Unlimited Adventures. Either could be user re-purposed to make a WL1 style game, but especially F.R.U.A. & Dungeoncraft.

BTCS though, will export a stand-alone executable game; while F.R.U.A. exports a dependent project folder. All three are FPP engines, BTCS is most like WL1, but DC & FRUA can do the overland map travel like WL1. By default combat with them is GB style; closer to WL2 than WL1.

Such an engine could also be done in BLENDER. [No need to mention Unity ;) ]
Last edited by Gizmo on May 13th, 2017, 2:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Wasteland 3: tell us your stretch goal ideas

Post by Zombra » May 13th, 2017, 2:21 pm

Let's not forget Adventure Construction Set (1984). :)
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Re: Wasteland 3: tell us your stretch goal ideas

Post by Gizmo » May 13th, 2017, 2:22 pm

Orson Scott Card criticized Adventure Construction Set's user interface, stating that it "was designed by the Kludge Monster from the Nethermost Hell"
:lol:

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Re: Wasteland 3: tell us your stretch goal ideas

Post by Drool » May 13th, 2017, 9:53 pm

Grohal wrote:
May 13th, 2017, 12:51 am
Why? With Nexus-modders the possibilites would be endless.
You'd think that, and yet the vast majority of "mods" for WL2 on Nexus are just portrait packs.
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