Design Choices: Plot; Props; Scenery [general]

For discussing Torment's story, setting, and characters. Ninth World discussions encouraged. Spoilers allowed.

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Firkraag
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Design Choices: Plot; Props; Scenery [general]

Post by Firkraag » June 11th, 2016, 6:08 am

In first hour sequence I've found three numanera, that look, like a sphere (Antagonist, Tar River Globe, that sphere in a pyramid). I'm not saying it's a pattern and maybe there's a reason, why each of those things looks, like Numenera, but it still looks, like a pattern to me.

And I know, how tempting it sometimes to make something into polytope or a sphere - there IS something attracting about them, but I'd advice to go looking some nature in the nearest park or look for one of those weird things, scientists keep finding. Not a while ago I discovered such thing, as tryppophobia (which is not a phobia, mind you, but rather a neural system reaction on a pattern). You can go google it (trigger warning, it's unnerving).

I don't say do something like this, probably I'm wrong about that pattern, but just keep in mind to count, how many spherical Numenera objects game features and ask yourself why is that?

P.S. Order of Truth (especially loading screen) looks like a cozy nightclub. For some reason I imagined something more, like a Jedi Temple from Star Wars, Ep. II. :)



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P.P.S. Every one can contribute this thread their own observations.
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Re: Design Choices: Plot; Props; Scenery [general]

Post by Brother None » June 11th, 2016, 8:39 am

These all come from different sources - Antagonist was one of the first items I designed, Tar River Globe is a backer item, the sphere comes from level design. I guess that shows it's just a natural human pattern to return to. I recall talking with one of our artist about how many backer items appeared to be spheres - we thought it interesting, but not something we'd need to "overrule" in any way. So ultimately you're going to run into a healthy amount of spheres, albeit of very different substances and natures.

Of course numenera run the gamut from biological to mechanical to otherworldly, and come in all kinds of shapes and sizes, spheres, cubes or less traditional eye-twisting shapes.
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Re: Design Choices: Plot; Props; Scenery [general]

Post by Firkraag » June 11th, 2016, 11:18 am

Hm. Okay. I'll keep an eye on things. ;)
"I am a warhead of weaponized Truth." The Last Castoff (non-canon).

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Re: Design Choices: Plot; Props; Scenery [general]

Post by Firkraag » June 11th, 2016, 3:27 pm

A bit weirded out, that in the same city keep meeting people (Min, Manth), who knew Castoff's body inhabitant in the past, but don't make an inference (Changing God exists, he has special tattoo, former vessels of Changing God have that tattoo, that's a Castoff) about who they met and Changing God cultists, that identity Castoff immediately on sight. With them preaching around the city it is not farfetched to presume, that everyone would know a bit about Castoffs and Changing God.
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Re: Design Choices: Plot; Props; Scenery [general]

Post by Firkraag » June 16th, 2016, 2:49 pm

Suddenly asking myself What are Torment: ToN's estimated age ratings/restrictions?

Would it be more "safe" and kid-friendly in general, as visceral and edgy as PS:T was at times or somewhere in the middle ground?
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Re: Design Choices: Plot; Props; Scenery [general]

Post by anonymous6059 » June 16th, 2016, 3:14 pm

Firkraag wrote:Suddenly asking myself What are Torment: ToN's estimated age ratings/restrictions?

Would it be more "safe" and kid-friendly in general, as visceral and edgy as PS:T was at times or somewhere in the middle ground?
This is one of the points I'd brought up long long ago. The game doesn't feel crass or even noteworthy strange. It just comes off as PG rated Science Fantasy. My hope is that the game progressively gets weirder as you descend into the rabbit hole.

My guess is PEGI 12+ unfortunately.

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Re: Design Choices: Plot; Props; Scenery [general]

Post by Firkraag » June 16th, 2016, 4:52 pm

That's a bit different ake on my question.

Well, game is strange alright. But "strange" in quotemarks. Either because of it's design choices or video game environment it finds itself in.

Modern gamer/reader/viewer with some experience is both very picky and keen.

We had a lot of different kinds of "weird" throughout the years. First... um.. 6 hours of Sagus feels pretty calm. There are weird inhabitants of ninth world, who're pretty weird and fit right into Numenera or even Planescape setting, but they're all good as third rate NPCs.

Planescape took me with few important things.
It hit me with it's world with a full speed of accelerating truck and after that was pretty... homey with it's weirdness.
Sigil was both clear and consistent with it's rules and internal mythology. And those rules were followed.
Sigil, you might say was as much as character, as any other important characters.
There were "unimportant" characters, that did stand out far taller among everyone else. And I think there reason for that was, that they were problematic. Microquests, postmodern mini backstories that linked to their current situations, deep rooted traumas, real concerns, urgent struggles...
TNO didn't felt, like he met characters or started conversations. It felt, like he bumped into them, piqued their interest, stirred some troubles or or was just right mab to dump some problem on. Named characters more often, than not were part of quests.
And for strangest reason, Planescape felt warm, when it expected to be cold.
Full, when it supposed to be empty. Wise, when it should felt pretentious.
Old grannies, caring for walking corpse. Serenity while operating on yourself without a anesthesia.
Flying skull, flirting with ladies. Succubus with a heart of gold. Githzerai, who made himself slave. Angel who fights fire with fire...

PS:T revelled in paradoxes, inconsistencies and irony.

I said myself, that we should not compare old game to the existing one, because thet can't be the similar thing and I still think that way. Just, can't stop myself... And I do admit, that my experience of the game are limited, compared to the size of the beta.

Torment, those parts I participated in, feels, like philosophical excursion. It shows, it tells, it lets comment, but short on intrusions.

In a way, you can say, that because of working on multitude of choices, the developers made a social less handcrafted, because they're less scripted...

On the other hand, that may be bunch of crap. Considered deleting this post, but decided to leave, as I was asked to not contemplate whether feedback is constructive or not.
Last edited by Firkraag on June 17th, 2016, 8:19 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Design Choices: Plot; Props; Scenery [general]

Post by anonymous6059 » June 17th, 2016, 7:29 am

Just saying one of the most "adult" moments in the game is hearing an visitant in the Order of Truth talk about sexual practices of different species. Maybe the game isn't just vanilla Science Fantasy and only the first 6-10 hours, but the adult content felt very very low. You ask what the rating for the game is and I'm suggesting PEGI 12+ from what I've seen. PST was also rated TEEN 13+ so I'm not really surprised or anything. I just feel like the game could use a bit more of a "Dark philosophical" undertone. although, I'm sure it will be there either later in the game or throughout the final release.

I really need to spend some more time playing the updated beta before giving feedback though. Most of my experience is based off the earlier beta version.

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Re: Design Choices: Plot; Props; Scenery [general]

Post by Brother None » June 17th, 2016, 7:41 am

Firkraag wrote:Suddenly asking myself What are Torment: ToN's estimated age ratings/restrictions?

Would it be more "safe" and kid-friendly in general, as visceral and edgy as PS:T was at times or somewhere in the middle ground?
We don't tend to aim for an age rating, we create the game we want to create and see where the chips fall. It's too early in the age-rating process to give an estimate, really, but if I'd have to guess I'd expect the same as WL2 got.

I've seen these posts on visceral edge of the game and well, let me just say to keep in mind you're only seeing the first part of the game. Torment has a carefully planned internal progression in its storyline which naturally resulted in Sagus being a more opening, less hostile, "nicer" place. I don't want to give too much away, but let me just say I've seen our age rating submissions and it gets pretty far out there. I'm much looking forward to when you can play through the full story, including the Bloom, and then loop back to the question about visceralness.
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Re: Design Choices: Plot; Props; Scenery [general]

Post by anonymous6059 » June 17th, 2016, 8:05 am

Brother None wrote:
Firkraag wrote:Suddenly asking myself What are Torment: ToN's estimated age ratings/restrictions?

Would it be more "safe" and kid-friendly in general, as visceral and edgy as PS:T was at times or somewhere in the middle ground?
We don't tend to aim for an age rating, we create the game we want to create and see where the chips fall. It's too early in the age-rating process to give an estimate, really, but if I'd have to guess I'd expect the same as WL2 got.

I've seen these posts on visceral edge of the game and well, let me just say to keep in mind you're only seeing the first part of the game. Torment has a carefully planned internal progression in its storyline which naturally resulted in Sagus being a more opening, less hostile, "nicer" place. I don't want to give too much away, but let me just say I've seen our age rating submissions and it gets pretty far out there. I'm much looking forward to when you can play through the full story, including the Bloom, and then loop back to the question about visceralness.
This is exactly what I've been hoping to hear now for sometime! Thank you for giving us some hints on this topic. I figured most of the good stuff would be hidden away in the bloom. If that's the case I think the "nicer" more colorful Sagus Cliffs will contrast nicely. Making it all the more grisly in appearance I'd imagine. Wasteland 2 is rated Mature 17+ which I feel would be most appropriate for a Torment game. Especially one that was crowd funded by adults exclusively.

Anyway, THANK YOU. Been hoping to hear this for a while now.

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