Well done inXile

Moderator: Bard Hall Bouncers
Yeah, this is rather worrying. No randomness is pretty boring, fights tend to go the same because your party will always be doing the same damage, while with more random damage you can have situations where it looks like your going to die but your warrior somehow gets some insanely lucky rolls and saves the day, or you could be on the brink of winning but then some unlucky fumbles puts you in trouble. It also leads to worse gear choices because choosing between 20dmg and 30dmg is an obvious choice, but choosing between 5-30 and 15-20 or something similar is more interesting. I mean I know the update says they have other stuff planned for spicing up fights, but ultimately damage is gonna be the main way you kill enemies.Themadcow wrote:Quite honestly this is probably the best update I could have hoped for apart from the line about static damage rather than an element of randomness.
I've only seen it work when the entire game is built around using debuffs to survive fights. And even then, it's usually just boss fights where it's an issue. I mean, DoT can be helpful against bosses sometimes, or against regenerating foes, but you're right that it's usually better to just pound the enemy into the dirt. Why stun/blind/poison/confuse the enemy when you can just cast NUKE?_noblesse_oblige_ wrote:In most gaming systems I've experienced, poisoning and bleeding effects don't remove enemies from the battlefield as quickly as direct damage.
Yeah. You're overthinking it, inXile. Factoring in stats and gear to damage is fine and expected, but I don't want every combat to be a puzzle. This isn't T:ToN. This is a dungeon crawl. There's going to be hundreds or thousands of combats. I don't want to spend twenty minutes strategically analyzing each one. Not every game with combat needs to be Jagged Alliance.Themadcow wrote:"Damage comes from the character's stats, which are sourced from a variety of places including gear, skills, level, etc. Most of the time, damage is a fixed amount instead of a random range. This really allows you to plan out the perfect combo, that will for sure take that ogre down before he crushes your skull in. There are some abilities that do random damage, but that random element is something special about the ability that makes it unique."
We're shocked toovv221 wrote:A BT4 update that makes everyone happy?!
Well done inXile
I dunno, I think I'd trade the 'I NUKE' button for a requirement to instead incapacitate foes in order to protect the squishy or to perhaps make victory a more viable option ... =)Drool wrote: but you're right that it's usually better to just pound the enemy into the dirt. Why stun/blind/poison/confuse the enemy when you can just cast NUKE?
Drool's reference was probably to an actual BT3 spell:dblade wrote:I dunno, I think I'd trade the 'I NUKE' button for a requirement to instead incapacitate foes in order to protect the squishy or to perhaps make victory a more viable option ... =)Drool wrote: but you're right that it's usually better to just pound the enemy into the dirt. Why stun/blind/poison/confuse the enemy when you can just cast NUKE?
Offensive spells in the original BT games didn't have side effects on the party - to the best of my knowledge.BT3 Manual wrote: NUKE 150 All Foes N/A
Gotterdamurung - The finest in offensive obliteration, this
spell annihilates the opponent for 2000 damage points.
I think that different tools are right for different jobs. If you're fighting a foe which is immune to most forms of direct damage or regenerates quickly from it (to borrow an example from Drool), then it might be appropriate. In large battlefield tactics games, it can be useful to wipe out combatants in back ranks, but it doesn't look like BT4 is headed in that direction so this particular use is probably irrelevant.dblade wrote:@_noblesse_oblige_
DOT's would slow down combat if they were the only damage type. Are you saying a round used for a DOT attack is a round wasted?
Well, it is Mr. Rogers who seems to be saying that, as a core pillar, it is supposed to be deeply involved. I am challenging that.dblade wrote: I'm not sure that saying combat is a core pillar demands that the combat must be not deeply involved / abstract and quite simple -- I agree with your claim of departure, but would prefer to see things evolve quite a bit on this front.
I personally don't have a problem with literate user interfaces and would actually be fine with scrolling text.dblade wrote: Are you suggesting the same semi static picture with scrolling combat text or something else? Would it be something like Myst + old school combat log and encounter window?![]()
I find the grid based positioning and smaller scale fights more involved. What they have discussed so far feels like a step in that direction and can only hope part 2 combat update tops it off nicely._noblesse_oblige_ wrote:
Do you want to see combat become more involved? What does your ideal combat model for BT 4 look like? If you had to determine the ratio of exploration and puzzle-solving to fighting, what would that be?
That's true in most games, yes. The only game I think of where DoT was powerful enough to be useful for you to invest into (and crippling enough to justify using turns of action to remove them from your party) was Lord of Xulima, that part was actually well calibrated in LoX, not overpowered, but definitely useful._noblesse_oblige_ wrote:In most gaming systems I've experienced, poisoning and bleeding effects don't remove enemies from the battlefield as quickly as direct damage.
There should be an option to deal increased damage instead of a status effect... but it sounds like that's what they're trying to avoid. Or maybe, a chance to insta-kill instead of status effect? Though that would probably go against their non-random damage idea...thebruce wrote:Personally I'm not as concerned about DoT & strategic gameplay elements - just as long as I'm not forced to use lengthier strategies for every single encounter. Sometimes I just want that satisfying bash and dash
Right, the value in DoT IMO is not in pure damage distributed, but additional effects benefitted throughout its duration that you can take advantage of. I don't like just pure damaged distributed over time (eg no difference between two attacks except for the amount of time it takes for the damage to be dealt). Provide a better or flexible risk/reward system with it. Even then, we shouldn't have[/] to be faced with lengthier combat if we don't want to (unless of course we're in it by choice or unexpected turns of events like failed strategies or unexpected enemy abilities/attributes).kilobug wrote:That's true in most games, yes. The only game I think of where DoT was powerful enough to be useful for you to invest into (and crippling enough to justify using turns of action to remove them from your party) was Lord of Xulima, that part was actually well calibrated in LoX, not overpowered, but definitely useful._noblesse_oblige_ wrote:In most gaming systems I've experienced, poisoning and bleeding effects don't remove enemies from the battlefield as quickly as direct damage.
enh, I'm not so much referring to insta-kill type mechanics so much as just speedy in-and-out encounters. They might still take a couple of rounds, but if I don't want strategic combat and I don't need to employ lengthier strategies, I shouldn't be forced to. If I want to do my AAAADDD (if possible) I would vastly prefer to have that option instead of having to define positioning and timing for every single character's actions every single phase.Sacred_Path wrote:There should be an option to deal increased damage instead of a status effect... but it sounds like that's what they're trying to avoid. Or maybe, a chance to insta-kill instead of status effect? Though that would probably go against their non-random damage idea... :|
I agree. The cumulative nature of damage over time made it very useful against not only bosses, but even normal tank like opponents. Its one of the few rpgs where I invested in damage over time skills.kilobug wrote:That's true in most games, yes. The only game I think of where DoT was powerful enough to be useful for you to invest into (and crippling enough to justify using turns of action to remove them from your party) was Lord of Xulima, that part was actually well calibrated in LoX, not overpowered, but definitely useful._noblesse_oblige_ wrote:In most gaming systems I've experienced, poisoning and bleeding effects don't remove enemies from the battlefield as quickly as direct damage.
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