Early Viewing of The Bard's Tale IV Kickstarter Rewards - UPDATE 5/21

For all Bard's Tale IV discussion that does not fit elsewhere, suggestions, feedback, etc. No spoilers allowed.

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Re: Early Viewing of The Bard's Tale IV Kickstarter Rewards - UPDATE 5/20

Post by meganothing » May 20th, 2015, 5:43 pm

I'm pretty sure the $33 tier is NOT the "normal" tier companion to the early bird $25. $33 is the "I pirated some previous game and want absolution" tier. I assume that shortly before the early bird slot is full (if at all) a new tier will be added by inXile with a $26 to $30 price tag.

A reason for the early bird is to get a mass of initial backers to put your project on a path to the important 50% of the goal. But here already both former torment and WL2 backers are informed and a percentage of those will back this on the first day because of BT or because of trust in inXile. So I don't see any reason to include an early bird at all. And it sends the wrong message to later backers, especially if early bird and normal tier differ by much (and I would consider $5 to be "much", based on how I backed or not backed some projects where I was just interested enough to back the minimum)

The suggestion to make it big, i.e. 20k, so that it lasts for the whole campaign, might backfire if people put too much importance into unfilled early bird slots at the end of the campaign. You see how often the $33 tier is misinterpreted to be the "normal" tier ("because there must be one")? There are deep-rooted expectations at work here.

If you really want to have an early bird tier, make it 20/22 or 23/25 and be sure to include the normal tier from the start.

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Re: Early Viewing of The Bard's Tale IV Kickstarter Rewards - UPDATE 5/20

Post by sirchaox1224 » May 20th, 2015, 5:56 pm

meganothing wrote:I'm pretty sure the $33 tier is NOT the "normal" tier companion to the early bird $25. $33 is the "I pirated some previous game and want absolution" tier. I assume that shortly before the early bird slot is full (if at all) a new tier will be added by inXile with a $26 to $30 price tag.
If $33 is not the "normal" tier (as you are right, it does include an extra item, albeit it's hard to really gauge the value of :P), then perhaps someone from inXile can grace us with their planned normal pledge level price, as this level is the most important (highest number of pledges and makes up the backbone of any KS). If only to discuss and make sure it is the right level for TBT.

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Re: Early Viewing of The Bard's Tale IV Kickstarter Rewards

Post by Woolfe » May 20th, 2015, 7:22 pm

Zombra wrote:
sirchaox1224 wrote:This doesn't really concern me as I'm likely pledging above the norm. But I want to echo that I'm here because of the weight inXile brings, not The Bard's Tale. I think those that are familiar with neither might be looking at this KS after the success of WL2; I don't think they will be swayed with a $25/$33 pledge level, but $20/$25 sounds much more reasonable for them. Those lower levels are much more friendly to newcomers.
I'm dittoing this as it resonates with me personally. I'm in for at least the minimum no matter what it is, but that's loyalty to inXile, not to the BT brand or blobbers or RPGs in general. (I have a huge backlog right now!) Of course, I am expecting some good salesmanship on the KS pitch, so that should draw in people too - but again, the main appeal there is to impulse buys and hype train jumpers who will have a lower tipping point against pledging. Frankly, when I see a $30 barrier of entry on any game KS, I start to tune out, and often I don't even watch the pitch video at that point. I know that if I hear good things about the release years later, I can probably get it for close to that price at that time, so why take the risk now? But I've pledged for plenty of $5 and $10s without even really knowing what they are. Gotta find that sweet spot.

P.S. I love the philosophy behind the Pirate tier, but it seems weird to have that as the basic "get the game" tier. Make it a dollar more or something.
Yep I am in the same boat.

Fans will pay above and beyond.
Non fans will pay the minimum to get the game and their foot in the door.

The trick will be growing the non fans up into higher tiers. Either cause they are rampant collectors, or because they grow more invested as time passes.

I think $5 as the pirate "amnesty" cost is a great plan.

And I also think the early bard tier should definitely be called "Early Bard gets the Wyrm", with a shout out to "TheBruce". That was totally gold :lol:
It's not too late. Make it Eight!

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Re: Early Viewing of The Bard's Tale IV Kickstarter Rewards - UPDATE 5/20

Post by maxheadroom » May 20th, 2015, 11:21 pm

I guess it's a licensing thing, but I would have liked to have seen the original trillogy included in one of the tiers.

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Re: Early Viewing of The Bard's Tale IV Kickstarter Rewards - UPDATE 5/20

Post by Entrei » May 20th, 2015, 11:38 pm

Very cool. I'll be getting one of the boxed versions. Is there any way you could have a boxed version include tides of numeria? ;)
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Re: Early Viewing of The Bard's Tale IV Kickstarter Rewards - UPDATE 5/20

Post by Tobi » May 21st, 2015, 2:08 am

I want to chime in regarding the lowest tiers where you actually get the game.

I think this is not a rational question (“What can I afford?” or “How much is the game really worth?”) but to a great extent a psychological one. Especially for people who are not hardcore fans but only (mildly) interested or who just want to support inXile. My fear is that if people see 25 or 33 they will say to themselves “Nah, I’m not THAT interested” or something along those lines. So my first suggestion, although I despise marketing tactics, would be:

Early Bird: $24
Regular: $29
The psychology aspect is obvious: $24 is “only a bit more than $20” and $29 is still “below $30”.

My second point is that Wasteland 2 was $15, Torment was $20, Pillars was $20, Broken Age was $15. Divinity was $25 - it had significantly fewer supporters and one could argue that the entry price was too high for some/many. Massive chalice was $20 and had many more backers at that level than Divinity. I don’t have proof but my strong feeling is that $20 is what regular people (casual / interested as opposed to hardcore fans) deem appropriate to throw at projects in which they are not too heavily invested. So all in all I would suggest the following pricing:

Early Bird: $19-$24
Regular: $24-$29

This way the entry barrier is lower and you will have more backers IMO. And definitely offer the absolution mail as an add-on. And how about an addon for like $29 bucks for an actual letter, signed by Mr. Fargo. And for $49 or $59 an actual scroll or a fancy document with a seal and all.

Anyway, good luck with the campaign!

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Re: Early Viewing of The Bard's Tale IV Kickstarter Rewards - UPDATE 5/20

Post by Dartbord » May 21st, 2015, 4:29 am

1.
I think the only way I'm backing this is when I get my hands on one of these:

Premier Collector's Edition - $95 - Early Bard

I definitely fall into the 'Gotta Collect It All' category (to a certain price point) and can see myself paying this, because I think this is a good amount of goodies for what I pay. Also, physical art books.... YEAH!!! <3

I haven't played the older Bard's Tale games but have seen people play it on youtube and it looks like fun, but I'm not paying $25 for just a digital copy of the game. I have a huge backlog of games so I have no problem whatsoever to wait for it to be (a lot) cheaper but I'd only wait because I'm more interested in the collectables... :roll:

Having said that, amongst others, I backed:

Broken Sword - The Serpent's Curse @ $100 Collector's Edition
(content of this edition is great, but I seriously HATE that they put a 'sleave' around the box and didn't print the info on the box. Very poor choice of design in my eyes. Please don't do this for the Bard's Tale!)

Pillars of Eternity @ $140 Retail Collector's Edition (and added some things later like the playing cards)
(great value for money, the contents were all cool and high quality)

Wasteland 2 @ $150 Collector's Edition
(awesome and fun design and truly one of a kind box!!!, pretty cool content but could have had a LITTLE more goodies for this price in my eyes)
Very awesome that the GOTY update is going to be free for owners of the original. This goes above and beyond in my eyes and is very much appreciated.

And yet to be released:

Torment: Tides of Numenera @ $275 Cypher Collector
(This exclusive collector's edition boxed copy includes the Torment game, printed game manual, cloth map, printed concept art book, CD soundtrack by Mark Morgan, hardcover Numenera corebook, your name in the game's credits and on a tombstone, and much more!)
I already received the Numenera corebook of course, that's been available for a while now. The Numenera books are stunningly beautiful and full of awesome stories and artwork. Did I say I loooove art books yet? :roll:

So that's why I think $95 is a fair price.

Have you already thought about how many of those are going to be available?

2.
Also, I like the suggestion of a lot of seperately selectable add-ons, what are your thoughts on that?

3.
I agree with what Tobi (post above mine) said about the psychology behind pledging and think that those prices* are much better for getting people to throw money at the screen.

*Early Bird: $19-$24
Regular: $24-$29

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Re: Early Viewing of The Bard's Tale IV Kickstarter Rewards

Post by dungeoncrawl » May 21st, 2015, 5:34 am

RangerKeenan wrote:I've noticed a few comments about the $25 "Early Bard" tier, which would be slightly higher when sold out. How would you feel if the # of early bard copies were say, around 20,000? Do you think that would potentially reward the early comers but also be enough to not sell out in the first few days?
I definitely think that helps a little. But, my comments were mainly about a $33 pricetag being too high. If somebody misses that first day, or 20k copies (or whatever limit you put on it), they're then faced with paying $33 and that seems too high to me for a game that will likely cost $40 at launch. Now, if it's $60 a launch, then $33 is a good deal. :)

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Re: Early Viewing of The Bard's Tale IV Kickstarter Rewards

Post by dungeoncrawl » May 21st, 2015, 5:40 am

thebruce wrote:Early bard gets the wyrm!
So much win!

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Re: Early Viewing of The Bard's Tale IV Kickstarter Rewards - UPDATE 5/20

Post by Jaradcel » May 21st, 2015, 7:36 am

*delurks*

Liking what I see but can I ask:

Are there plans for a *PHYSICAL* guide book?

If so, could/would that be something that could be added to the collector's physical edition as part of the tiers already?

I am a massive guide book fan and was surprised when PoE suddenly came out with a guide book (albeit, that thing was filled with errors, misprints etc) and I had to buy that separate from my pledge (because I didn't jump for CE since it was digital) and I'm hoping for a physical for Tides as well (W00t to RPGs!)

I don't know how feasible that is I guess, or how much cost it would add, but I'd sing lusty songs of ribaldry for a physical guide book!!! I have the older guide books lying around in my house as well *laughs*

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Re: Early Viewing of The Bard's Tale IV Kickstarter Rewards - UPDATE 5/20

Post by Skirge01 » May 21st, 2015, 8:01 am

I was initially thinking that $25 was fine, but, after reading Tobi's post, I think his reasoning makes a lot of sense. That said, I'm not a lower tier backer and am definitely a collector who has never played the originals, but will be backing because of my faith that, simply put, inXile makes games I like. Actually, that might not be a bad tagline for the company:

inXile - We make the games you love™*
inXile - Making the games you'll remember™*
* Contact me for licensing info

Back on topic, Divinity had only 10k backers with their $25-28 pricing and never broke $1M during their KS. As I said, I believe in inXile, but I'm not sure that this particular franchise is the one to test the waters with a $25 point of entry, especially considering the funding goal. Honestly, I'd prefer to see this tested on either a lower funding goal OR an established franchise (not both). For example... Wasteland 3. There, people already know the type of game being made and should recognize where more money could have been spent (graphics, VO, etc). Just my 2 cents.

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Re: Early Viewing of The Bard's Tale IV Kickstarter Rewards - UPDATE 5/20

Post by sirchaox1224 » May 21st, 2015, 9:35 am

Tobi wrote:I want to chime in regarding the lowest tiers where you actually get the game.
Thanks for doing so! :)

I agree, this seems like a better strategy to me. I also like your example involving Divinity being $25; this is the reason I didn't initially pledge to the game and decided to wait until release. If it was $20, then I would have pledged for certain. But it was also competing with... Torment? Pillars? Gah, it has all become a haze...

Anyway, I'm not sure how well $24/$29 could do, but if the pitch is great and it is clear the game being offered is something big, then it certainly could.

Another strategy could be to add some kind of small digital item to these initial tiers, just to make them more enticing at these higher price points.

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Re: Early Viewing of The Bard's Tale IV Kickstarter Rewards - UPDATE 5/20

Post by Skirge01 » May 21st, 2015, 9:56 am

sirchaox1224 wrote: Another strategy could be to add some kind of small digital item to these initial tiers, just to make them more enticing at these higher price points.
What about the 1st Novella? Offer the 2nd and 3rd ones for $5 each as addons, thereby making that first one also valued at $5, which is the exact bump in cost. The first novella could even be offered for the $5 pledge to give them something tangible and, perhaps, even a reason to spend $10 more to finish the story, which could wind up causing them to pledge for the full game... assuming they like what they read.

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Re: Early Viewing of The Bard's Tale IV Kickstarter Rewards - UPDATE 5/20

Post by sirchaox1224 » May 21st, 2015, 10:07 am

Skirge01 wrote:What about the 1st Novella? Offer the 2nd and 3rd ones for $5 each as addons, thereby making that first one also valued at $5, which is the exact bump in cost. The first novella could even be offered for the $5 pledge to give them something tangible and, perhaps, even a reason to spend $10 more to finish the story, which could wind up causing them to pledge for the full game... assuming they like what they read.
If they were to use that idea, then it would have to be a digital item EVERYONE would want, otherwise people will see it and think they are paying extra for this thing they do not want. I'm not sure what would be a good item to fit this category... So this may not be the best idea after all. :( Unless it is a universally desired item, it may taint the base game pledge level.

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Re: Early Viewing of The Bard's Tale IV Kickstarter Rewards - UPDATE 5/20

Post by Skirge01 » May 21st, 2015, 11:00 am

sirchaox1224 wrote:If they were to use that idea, then it would have to be a digital item EVERYONE would want, otherwise people will see it and think they are paying extra for this thing they do not want. I'm not sure what would be a good item to fit this category... So this may not be the best idea after all. :( Unless it is a universally desired item, it may taint the base game pledge level.
Yep... I think you just nailed down the issue of adding anything to the lowest tier to get the game. Although, it still might be kinda cool to add the 1st Novella to the $5 pledge. At $5, you're not really pledging to get something; you're pledging to stay in the loop or to show a little support.

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Re: Early Viewing of The Bard's Tale IV Kickstarter Rewards - UPDATE 5/20

Post by huxi » May 21st, 2015, 11:08 am

Oh, one more thing that just popped into my mind:

Please don't add any Kickstarter exclusive digital stuff (like items, special dungeons etc.) that add real functionality to the game.
Current tiers don't have those right now but I wanted to mention it in advance since I can't know how the tiers will change and what stretch goals are planned. Cosmetic features (e.g. golden harp instead of wooden one, with identical stats) are fine but please no paywall for actual features of the game.

I'm into crowdfunding partially because I want to help create awesome games for all the other players that will pick the game up at some point in the future. I firmly believe that every player should be able to have the same experience regardless of their personal ability to afford high backer tiers.

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Re: Early Viewing of The Bard's Tale IV Kickstarter Rewards - UPDATE 5/20

Post by Zombra » May 21st, 2015, 11:23 am

huxi wrote:Please don't add any Kickstarter exclusive digital stuff (like items, special dungeons etc.) that add real functionality to the game.
Yeah, I think inXile learned their lesson on that one. They tried exclusive items and whatnot with Wasteland 2 but the community complained loudly and (unlike some Kickstarter devs) they actually listened. :)
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Re: Early Viewing of The Bard's Tale IV Kickstarter Rewards

Post by RangerKeenan » May 21st, 2015, 11:58 am

huxi wrote:The most important reason for Early Bird tiers in Bard's Tale is the excellent Early Bard pun.
This does rate quite high on the reasons why I like it ;)
meganothing wrote:A reason for the early bird is to get a mass of initial backers to put your project on a path to the important 50% of the goal. But here already both former torment and WL2 backers are informed and a percentage of those will back this on the first day because of BT or because of trust in inXile.
While I know the intent of your post was against Early Birds, this section is true. The first few days of a project are the most important to a Kickstarter, no doubt. As our previous backers have been notified, we see it as a way to also give them an edge to getting it at a cheaper price.
Woolfe wrote:And I also think the early bard tier should definitely be called "Early Bard gets the Wyrm", with a shout out to "TheBruce". That was totally gold

It was brilliant...and certainly under consideration.
Zombra wrote:huxi wrote:
Please don't add any Kickstarter exclusive digital stuff (like items, special dungeons etc.) that add real functionality to the game.

Yeah, I think inXile learned their lesson on that one. They tried exclusive items and whatnot with Wasteland 2 but the community complained loudly and (unlike some Kickstarter devs) they actually listened.
I still use that example of why crowdfunding and getting early feedback is great. We thought it was a good idea but seeing the backlash forced us to reexamine.

Anyways, still working out the details, but another update to the rewards will be incoming shortly.
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Re: Early Viewing of The Bard's Tale IV Kickstarter Rewards - UPDATE 5/21

Post by RangerKeenan » May 21st, 2015, 1:48 pm

After reading through the comments and discussing it internally, we've adjusted the pricing on the first digital tiers. You'll now find our entry level price is at $20 for the first early bard.
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Re: Early Viewing of The Bard's Tale IV Kickstarter Rewards - UPDATE 5/21

Post by Zombra » May 21st, 2015, 2:34 pm

Wow! What can be said about a team that listens to their supporters? I hope you'll find this is a good move.
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