DMG 4-Man SJ party , Tips & Character Creation 101

Check here to discuss Wasteland 2 gameplay topics. Please avoid spoilers in thread titles.

Moderator: Ranger Team Alpha

Post Reply
nidark
Initiate
Posts: 13
Joined: October 6th, 2014, 4:12 pm

DMG 4-Man SJ party , Tips & Character Creation 101

Post by nidark » October 7th, 2014, 12:03 pm

LET'S PARTY

Intro
- This party DMG should be close to the perfect one - 3 characters with base 20CI at the end game.
- I included as well the target stats for lv40 .
- I am assuming I will not max all the skills and I will also use skill book & trinkets on top of those. Feel free to check and advise on my skill plans ....
- I don’t plan to recruit any CNPCs
- I tried to optimize party’s total STR & INT to maximize Cary Weight & Skill Points using as few Attribute points as possible. Without Carry Weight in the picture, probably I would of give up the STR Guy.
- I am worried by my 3 X 2STR guys .... will they be able to carry 2 weapons and ammo at the end :D ?
- I haven't pass lvl 20 yet (a few restarts :D) so I am curios to see if my plan will work :)


Full Party HERE - Using this tool

Dozer, The Mule
Hi, I am Dozer! To be continued ...
CLASSIC: (2,1,4,8,8,4,1) -> (2,1,8,8,8,4,1)
DMG Stats: 9AP/13I -> 9AP/17I
Skills (12-129SP)
AR Weapons 3-10
Computer 1-9
Toaster Repair 1-3
Mechanical Repair 1-3
Hard Ass 0-6
Weaponsmithing 0-6

Doc, The Charming Killer
Hi, I am Doc. I have the biggest gun. To be Continued ….
CLASSIC: (2,1,6,2,10,4,3) -> (2,1,6,2,10,4,3)
DMG Stats: 8AP/16CI -> 8AP/20CI
Skills (12-129SP)
Sniper Weapons 3-10
Leadership 2-9
Medic 1-1
Energy Weapons 0-10

Gunny, The Specialist
Hello Boys! Show me the Target!To be Continued ….
CLASSIC: (4,1,6,2,10,4,1) -> (4,1,10,2,10,4,1)
DMG Stats: 9AP/16I -> 9AP/20I
Skills (12-129SP)
AR Weapons 3-10
Perception 1-6
Demolition 1-5
Brute Force 0-3
Medic 0-10
Surgeon 0-1

Silent , Quick Fingers
Hello Boys! Where do we need to slip in? To be Continued ….
CLASSIC: (4,1,6,2,10,4,1) -> (4,1,10,2,10,4,1)
DMG Stats:9AP/16I -> 9AP/20I
Skills (12-129SP)
AR Weapons 3-10
Lockpicking 1-9
Safecracking 1-3
Alarm Disarming 1-3
Surgeon 0-9

...............................................................................................................................................
Specialized Builds.
Charismatic Leader
Lucky Luke
To Be done ....

..............................................................................................................................................

TIPS

General
Press Z to make the loot items visible.
Save before attempting to disarm, unlock, lockpick, safecrack etc. You can make it even with 11% success rate and sometimes from the first or second try.
Once you reach California drop your water capacity trinkets (no need) and start using the nice skill ones.


Batle Tactics
Make sure you reload all your weapons before starting a battle(or just reload all after you finish one)
Options for starting battles (before the enemies engage you):
- Sniper: Setup & spread your team for an ambush (use kneel and cover). Use your Sniper to hit and enemy from range.
- Synchronized Shot: Select your party (use ranged weapons) and hit one enemy. You should be able to score a kill before the battle starts.
- Tanking: Setup & spread your team for an ambush (use kneel and cover). Use your SPD/STR character to go closer to the enemies and provoke the battle start. Run back under the team suppression fire. You may use Ambush quite effective here.
Check who is firing next. Focus that enemy down. ... Or ... is that 1 HP guy not firing soon ? You can let them to your least powerful guy and use the real damage dealer to take 100 HP from a full HP enemy.
Use Ambush rather than firing upon enemies staying in cover. They will jump out next turn and your guys will punish them.
If your enemies use EWW just take down your armor. They will become useless. ... Put back that armor after the fight.
Focus fire on one target. A target with 1 HP (CON) is just as effective as one with full HP.
Don't move without a reason to do so. Conserving AP for the next turn can grant you an extra shot/move when you need to.
AP Management (AR Example for 9 AP): Keep a 5 AP and also a 4 AP AR weapon. At the beginning you wont be able to use the Burst Head-shot (9AP) so you better use 1 X 5AP & 1 X 4 AP shots.

Character Creation/Progression
Every Attribute can be minimum 1. Most of them give you bonuses every 2 points so even if you don’t want to raise one attribute too much, it may be wise to raise it at 2 instead of leaving it at 1. Useful ones to keep at least at 2 are STR, SPD, CON.
For every 4 combined attributes in SPD, STR and INT you gain 1 AP. So plan to have (SPD+STR+INT) = 4Xmultiple
Every 10 levels you get 1 more Attribute point.
- Cap level is 50, but plan on getting 4 attributes only as you may not reach 50.
- AW is the best candidate to raise during leveling as you get 1 CI for each AW
- Don’t raise STR, SPD, INT, CHA during the leveling, but set them up from the start. Otherwise you will lose the lvl bonuses from INT and STR, XP bonus from CHA, or you have to wait for 4 attributes to gain 1 AP (STR, SPD, INT combination).
You don’t need to raise all your skills to 10 even if you need them at that level:
- Use skill books for +1
- Use items (trinkets) for +2/3
Don’t use the same type of weapon for all the members. You will run out of ammo.
Raise your Weapons skills at +3 (or +4) from the start to have an edge over initial enemies
Adding the first 3 levels to a skill cost you only 6 skill points. It may be a good trade-off (instead of adding 1 more level for a skill between 7&9).


STATS

Action Points (AP) ****
How many actions you can perform per turn.
More is better, but you will may get more benefits if you redirect some points to other attributes, depending on the build choice.
So add exactly as you NEED based on the weapon choice.
Ranged Hit Chance (RHC) ****
Chance to hit with ranged weapons.
This adds to the ranged weapon skills, so increasing those will suffice.
Critical Chance (CC) ***
Chance to perform a critical hit.
Don’t’ hunt for it unless you do a specialized build.
Combat Initiative (CI) *****
How fast you react when the battle starts. High enough and you can finish them before they can fire.
How many times you can act during the battle. Imagine you get 2 turns before an enemy gets one.
Aim for 20 and never under 12, unless a specialized build.

Chance to Evade (CE) ***
Great for Defence.
Aim to raise this instead of adding more HP.
CON ****
Total HP.
Combat Speed (CS) ****
Determines how many tiles you can walk for each AP.
Useful for any character, but great for melee and medics.
Skill/LVL ****
How many skill points you get per level.
Aim at least 3 unless you do a specialized build.
Carry Weight ***
How much you can carry.
CON per Level ***
How much more HP you get per level.
Range of View **
How far you can see in the fog
Leadership Radius ***
How big (distance) is your Leadership skill influence.
If you don’t use Leadership is useless.
Non-Combat XP Bonus *
How much more XP% you gain from non-combat skills.
Useful for some specialized builds.
Bonus Melee Crit Mult **
Melee damage multiplier in case of a critical hit.
Great for melee especially for Brawling as this skill will end up with 100% crit chance.


ATTRIBUTES

Coordination (CON): ***
Stats Impact:
+2 Coordination = +1 Action Points (AP)
+1 Coordination = +1% Ranged Hit Chance (RHC)
Summary:
Quite important fighting attribute, but less important than Speed or Awareness.
Aim to have it at least 2, but usually you need builds with higher CON.
Decide from the beginning how many AP you need and set CON in association with SPD, STR and INT to get that AP.
EX: If your weapon of choice is using 3AP you may want 9AP so you can use it 3 times.

Luck (LCK): *
Stats Impact:
+1 Luck = +1% Critical Chance (CC)
+2 Luck = +1% Chance to Evade (CE)
Summary:
Theoretically impacts a lot of game aspects (better lot, % lucky +1 AP per turn), however the only one I really noticed is the fact that the weapons are jamming quite often without Luck. However his is easy to overcome with the weapon mods. Unless you want the Direct Impact features you can safely let it at 1. Or you can create one “Lucky” character...

Awareness (AW): *****
Stats Impact:
+1 Awareness = +1 Combat Initiative (CI)
+2 Awareness = +1% Chance to Evade
Summary:
CI is the “DMG” skill of the game. You should plan to finish (lvl40sh) at 10 AW for a DMG character.

Strength (STR): ****
Stats Impact:
+1 Strength = +12 Carry Weight
+4 (Strength, Speed, Intelligence) = +1 Action Points
+1 Strength = +0.1 Melee Critical Multiplier
+1 Strength = +3 Base CON
+1 Strength = +1 CON per level-up.
Summary:
Very important (at the party level) for Carry Weight. This is the only reason I gave it 4 stars.
Good for melee, but not necessary.
Very important for tanks, but, surprisingly, not as good as Speed.
You need 7 STR to us the best Heavy Armor, but the best Light one is almost as good and without any speed penalties.
Don’t go too low: you may not be able to carry you gun at the end game.

Speed (SPD) *****
Stats Impact:
+2 SPD = +1 AP
+2 SPD = +1 CI
+4 (Speed, Strength, Intelligence) = +1 AP
+1 SPD = +1% Chance to Evade
+1 SPD = +0.1 Combat Speed
Summary:
The best overall offensive & defensive skill.
Impacts both CI & AP, and even more efficient than CO & AW.
Combat Speed determines how many squares you can move per AP: useful for flanking & defense/run.
+1SPD adds 1% Chance to Evade, so is better than STR for defense.
Aim to maximize it if you can.

Intelligence (INT): ****
Stats Impact:
+4 (Intelligence, Speed, Strength) = +1 AP
1 Intelligence = +2 Skill Points/Level
4 Intelligence = +3 Skill Points/Level
8 Intelligence = +4 Skill Points/Level
10 Intelligence = +5 Skill Points/Level
Summary:
Intelligence is the only attribute that affects the number of skills you will have at the end.
You need to decide the INT at the beginning.
Here are the LVL40 stats:
1 INT = ~2.01 maxed skills
4 INT = ~2.93 maxed skills (13.3 SP per each additional INT)
8 INT = ~3.82 maxed skills (10 SP per each additional INT)
10 INT = ~4.70 maxed skills (20 SP per each additional INT)
This suggests INT =1 is the most effective (but this might be to low), and INT=8 being the most ineffective.
The recommendation will be to use INT4 or INT10.
A few combinations(LVL40):
4 X INT1 costs 4 INT and results in ~8.19 maxed skills (360 SP)

4 X INT4 costs 16 INT and results in ~11.73 maxed skills (516 SP)
2 X INT1, 2 X INT8 costs 18 INT and results in ~11.73 maxed skills (516 SP)

1 X INT1, 2 X INT4 , 1 X IN10 costs 19 INT and results in ~12.62 maxed skills (555 SP)

2 X INT1, 2 X IN10 costs 22 INT and results in ~13.05 maxed skills (594 SP)
3 X INT4, 1 X IN10 costs 22 INT and results in ~13.05 maxed skills (594 SP)
Charisma (CHA) **
Stats Impact:
+1 CHA= +2m Leadership Radius
+1 CHA = +5% XP
Summary:
Charisma allows you to recruit the best CNPs, boosts the XP % gain and the Leadership range.
+1 Leadership = +1% Hit Chance for each of the party members in range.
It looks good, but think is the next dump candidate after Luck.
I must admit that a maxed CHA, INT Leader with a lot of non-combat skills (for maximum XP gain) would be an interesting build.
Maybe a leader for 3 brainless ranged DMG guys :D ? Bear in mind he will fight like a girl J.


SKILLS


WEAPONS SKILLS

Assault Rifles (AR) *****
AP Management: 9AP (Headshot Burst) or 10AP (5AP X 2 shots).
Summary:
Best DMG in game at all stages.

Sniper Rifles (SR): ****
AP Management: 7AP (5AP + Headshot), 8AP (6AP + Headshot), 10AP (5AP X 2 shots), 12AP (6AP X 2)
Summary:
Nice for starting the battles from the distance in some situations (see starting battle tips).
Great DMG at the beginning, good for finish targets later on.

Energy Weapons (EW) ****
AP Management: 8 AP (Gamma Ray), 12 AP (2 X Death Ray)
Summary:
Excelent against armored target, extremely bad against non-armored ones.
Because of this they are useless half of the game so plan to take it later as a secondary weapon, therefore ‘only’ 4 stars.

Melee ***
Brawling > Blunt > Blade
Brawling AP management: 9AP (3 X AP Hit). 8AP (2AP Run To target + 2 X 2AP Hit)
Summary:
Brawling is quite bad before lvl 7 and is highly depended on the weapon, but after 7 you will get over 80% crit chance. If your character has a good STR you will get an excellent crit multiplier.
It can become a DMG champion … but melee characters waste a lot of AP moving around to catch up the enemies. (They need SPD to be effective).

TNT,Grenades, Rocket launchers ***
Very good as they are not impacted by skills so they can be used by all characters. If you have a melee that needs a ranged option or a CHA/INT/LUCK Leader without any combat skills they can make up for that gap. However you won’t have too many to use them all the time.
You can also use explosives to open safes.

SMG, Handguns, Shotguns **
All make decent options for a secondary weapon, but secondary weapons are non-really needed.

Heavy weapons *
Just bad if you compare them with ARs.


GENERAL SKILLS

Animal Whisperer **
Can give you +1 Awareness.

Barter **
Depends on your play-style.
If you need money you can easy spare 6 points and make it +3.
If not you can surely find another skill to raise.

Brute Force *** 
Some early quests require 2-3 levels here.
You ca use this to open doors by force instead of lock-picking.

Smart/Kiss/Hard Ass skills *** 
You will need at least one high for quests and items.

Leadership ***
Nice buff, but shines only if your character have a decent CHA.

Outdoorsman **
If you don’t want to have random fights all the time raise it.
If you prefer getting some more XP and losing some time (& ammo) forget about it.

Perception *****
Detecting traps helps you avoid a lot of damage.

Weaponsmithing **** 
Weapon mods are a must. You need +4 this as soon as your ranged weapons pass lvl 6-7.
Money gain is a bonus as well.

Knowledge skills

Alarm ** 
Deactivate alarms. Nice to have.

Computers ***
Loot & hack enemy robots. Good to have on Melee and/or SPD character.

Demolitions ****
Disable traps. Works great with Perception.

Field Medic *****
Mandatory. You may need 2 characters with this skill.

Lockpicking ***
Loot skill. You can open doors with brute force, but not locks.

Repair * 
Used sometimes for non-critical quests.
You can use this skill to fix the things you tried to open by force (Brute Force, Explosives) and try to open it again.

Safecracking:* 
Loot skill for 60% of the safes. The rest are using electronic looks (Computers).
Most of them (all ?) can be opened by TNT & grenades so you may forget about this skill.

Surgeon: *****
Mandatory. You may need 2 characters with this skill (lvl7 & lv1 can be a decent tradeoff).

Toaster: ***
Loot skill. You get unique items and a lot of xp and you don’t need to raise it too much.




Useful Skill Combinations:

Perception + Demolitions: An Item will add +3 to both. Also you can see the traps and disable them with the same character.
Weaponsmithing + Toaster + Repair: An Item will add +2 to all
Lockpicking + Safecracking: An item will add +2 to both.


Later Edits

1. Updated and improved mechanical repair, brute force and explosives, based on Gruftlord feedback
2. Updated and improved Sniper rifles, CI, Weaponsmithing & barter details, based on Tyraforce feedback.
3. Added a few INT party combinations at the Intelligence skill level.
4. Changed the party Tank (no melee -> AR) & Leader (less INT -> CHA & SPD) and added a few tips
5. Added a few great tips from NickAragua
6. Changed INT calculation per level (the initial one was faulty)

Last edited by nidark on October 10th, 2014, 4:33 am, edited 24 times in total.

User avatar
Gruftlord
Explorer
Posts: 453
Joined: September 23rd, 2014, 2:43 am

Re: My party, Tips & Character Creation 101

Post by Gruftlord » October 7th, 2014, 2:17 pm

Nice guide. Short, but to the point, with practical gameplay focussed builds. I like it.

Two thing you could add may be: a leader type character build with higher charisma for leadership.
Maybe additional comments about mechanical repair, brute force and explosives. They can help you open stuff you already critically failed on. They are more important on a playthrough without excessive reloading.

nidark
Initiate
Posts: 13
Joined: October 6th, 2014, 4:12 pm

Re: My party, Tips & Character Creation 101

Post by nidark » October 7th, 2014, 3:21 pm

Gruftlord wrote:Nice guide. Short, but to the point, with practical gameplay focussed builds. I like it.

Two thing you could add may be: a leader type character build with higher charisma for leadership.
Maybe additional comments about mechanical repair, brute force and explosives. They can help you open stuff you already critically failed on. They are more important on a playthrough without excessive reloading.
Thanks for the comments.

Indeed, Charisma is missing ...
Initially I did not plan for Leadership, but having Doc with 10 INT allows me to add it so now I miss CHA.
I might tweak him to: 2,1,6,4,2,10,3; 8AP/12CI, wich is still a decent fighter. I am losing 2 SPD and gain 2 CHA.

PS:
Good point on the Repair vs Brute Force/Explosives.
I will make an update in the next 'version', when I will add the specialized builds.

mauman
Initiate
Posts: 7
Joined: October 7th, 2014, 6:11 pm

Re: My party, Tips & Character Creation 101

Post by mauman » October 7th, 2014, 7:08 pm

Nice guide...

Little thing to add about Charisma. Their ARE hidden stat checks in dialogue (don't believe me? Use kiss-A on the radio tower thugs with a 10 charisma then a 1 charisma character, you're mind will be blown). This potentially increases the value of a charisma/leader based character.

Ray
Scholar
Posts: 103
Joined: July 22nd, 2014, 10:34 pm

Re: My party, Tips & Character Creation 101

Post by Ray » October 7th, 2014, 7:52 pm

mauman wrote:Use kiss-A on the radio tower thugs with a 10 charisma then a 1 charisma character, you're mind will be blown).
I don't see/read a difference when I use Kiss Ass with either Cha 1 or 10 on Spyke Alpha.

mauman
Initiate
Posts: 7
Joined: October 7th, 2014, 6:11 pm

Re: My party, Tips & Character Creation 101

Post by mauman » October 7th, 2014, 7:53 pm

Ray wrote:
mauman wrote:Use kiss-A on the radio tower thugs with a 10 charisma then a 1 charisma character, you're mind will be blown).
I don't see/read a difference when I use Kiss Ass with either Cha 1 or 10 on Spyke Alpha.
Might be because you've already found the shrine near ranger citadel.

If you have decent charisma he'll give you the location. Cha evidently does a lot of little things like that in the game. I'm interested in seeing a list.

Ray
Scholar
Posts: 103
Joined: July 22nd, 2014, 10:34 pm

Re: My party, Tips & Character Creation 101

Post by Ray » October 7th, 2014, 8:35 pm

You're right. I've checked it again together with Strength 8 and the Hard Ass option. I only saw no difference because the talker doesn't have to be the one with the required attribute; anyone in the party is fine.
So with Strength 8+ and Hard Ass and Charisma 6+ with Kiss Ass you can get the additional shrine location.
I've set all attributes to 10 for the Smart Ass option, but no shrine location was revealed.

Interesting. I'm going to check out more attributes according to the link here: http://wasteland.wikia.com/wiki/Attribute_Checks

Tyraforce
Scholar
Posts: 128
Joined: September 25th, 2014, 12:44 am

Re: My party, Tips & Character Creation 101

Post by Tyraforce » October 7th, 2014, 11:53 pm

Sniper rifles are not that great for starting battles. You want your whole team to take the free first shot and ARs have almost the same range.
CI also determines who goes first, which decides most battles fast.
Weaponsmithing used to make money? How? You mostly get a mod which sells for less than the weapon and if you want weapon parts than you want a low WS rank. High WS saves some money as it requires you to destroy fewer weapons.
3 ranks of barter+book are a cheap way to make some money if you feel you can use it.

A decent guide otherwise.

nidark
Initiate
Posts: 13
Joined: October 6th, 2014, 4:12 pm

Re: My party, Tips & Character Creation 101

Post by nidark » October 8th, 2014, 1:49 am

Thank you all for the feedback!

Revealing Charisma, mauman & Ray
I mentioned that a Intelligent & charismatic leader would be interesting, but without knowing how interesting :).
I can't decide if Doc can be a decent fighter and Leader in the same time :D.
Even if I will keep my party without a leader, at least, I will make a proposed Charismatic Leader in the Specialized Build section.
BTW Nice link on the attribute checks. Interesting that you can have Strength on one char and Hard Ass on another. This opens up some flexible possibilities (Strength on my tank and Hard-ass on my INT guy).


General Feedback, Tyraforge
Sniper rifles are not that great for starting battles. You want your whole team to take the free first shot and ARs have almost the same range.
Excellent point as no being the best every time.
Sniper shot is one of the 3 options I use to start battles and is great .... in certain situations. I will make an update.
That reminds me to add the starting battle tips, and one of it is the 'Synchronized Start Shots' you mentioned :)
Hmm, I know one of my (2) sniper riffles has ~10 more meters than the M16 I use now as AR, but I will check later on and edit this post.

CI also determines who goes first, which decides most battles fast.
Correct, I added that initially, but I thought is too much info :).
I will re-add it, because indeed it makes a big difference and worth being mentioned separately.

Weaponsmithing used to make money? How? You mostly get a mod which sells for less than the weapon and if you want weapon parts than you want a low WS rank. High WS saves some money as it requires you to destroy fewer weapons.
3 ranks of barter+book are a cheap way to make some money if you feel you can use it.

I agree 3 levels (6sp) in any skill (barter) is not much, but I am soooo blindly going for DMG type of skills :D.
Seriously, if I will need cash I will try to raise barter. I will update the comments.
Well, I did some money from scrap at low WS ranks. You might be right for later...

Shining Hector
Acolyte
Posts: 79
Joined: September 22nd, 2014, 1:17 am

Re: My party, Tips & Character Creation 101

Post by Shining Hector » October 8th, 2014, 11:14 am

Tyraforce wrote:Weaponsmithing used to make money? How? You mostly get a mod which sells for less than the weapon and if you want weapon parts than you want a low WS rank. High WS saves some money as it requires you to destroy fewer weapons.
Not quite true. Once I got 9 weaponsmithing I started routinely getting 18 parts even from crappy stuff like TNT, where the previous max had been maybe 14 which I saw very rarely. I thought at first of having a 1 weaponsmithing character to break down weapons, but you get minimal parts that way even if it takes away the accessory chance. It's best to just sell expensive weapons and break down cheap ones and have one weaponsmith with good skill.

chebur2013
Scholar
Posts: 107
Joined: April 6th, 2013, 11:52 am

Re: My party, Tips & Character Creation 101

Post by chebur2013 » October 8th, 2014, 11:47 am

Its great for roleplaying pusposes, but in this game this builup is useless. Luck is useless, charisma is useless, intelligence is useless. strength above 4 is useless, mele is useless, grenades and launchers are game breakers. So... have fun

NickAragua
Novice
Posts: 42
Joined: October 7th, 2014, 10:41 am

Re: My party, Tips & Character Creation 101

Post by NickAragua » October 8th, 2014, 12:42 pm

Pretty solid guide. I especially like the AP guidelines for weapons, that's pretty useful for planning character development. Some comments:

Weaponsmithing can make you good money while you still have access to Ranger Citadel. Once you move on to California, however, its major use is for high-end mods.

Here's a question for you folks: am I correct in thinking that bumping a given skill up to level 10 and then equipping a trinket that gives a bonus to that skill is useless?

If so, then a good strategy is to avoid spending the awful 8 points on that last pip and just swap in the trinket you need.

Also, once you hit California, you do not need water. This is important because you can now toss all your +water capacity trinkets and equip the good stuff.

The other (also unlikely) use for Repair is to heal up any friendly robots.

I actually got through the campaign on seasoned difficulty with only one medic/surgeon, but I can see how you may want a backup level 1 surgeon in case your specialist buys a big piece of the farm and is lying on the ground bleeding out.

Some tactics tips:
Before getting into a fight, try your best to scope out your opponents. Do you see a lot of glowing energy weapons? Take that armor off. Some of the later energy weapons do horrendous damage against targets above their "armor threshold". With your armor off, those energy weapons are about as effective as plastic spoons. Just don't forget to put the armor back on after the fight.

Focus fire on one target. A target with 5 con remaining is just as effective as a target with full health. You're better off removing one enemy from the action queue entirely than wounding a whole bunch of them.

Unless you really need to move your guy, you're better off standing still, as some of the APs you save this round carry over to the next. This could translate into an extra shot.

nidark
Initiate
Posts: 13
Joined: October 6th, 2014, 4:12 pm

Re: My party, Tips & Character Creation 101

Post by nidark » October 9th, 2014, 10:07 am

Here's a question for you folks: am I correct in thinking that bumping a given skill up to level 10 and then equipping a trinket that gives a bonus to that skill is useless?
If so, then a good strategy is to avoid spending the awful 8 points on that last pip and just swap in the trinket you need.
This is what I am counting for. My plan is to avoid lvl10 (8sp) skill as much as I can.
Also, once you hit California, you do not need water. This is important because you can now toss all your +water capacity trinkets and equip the good stuff.
The other (also unlikely) use for Repair is to heal up any friendly robots.
Good ones. I will add them when I do the next update.
I actually got through the campaign on seasoned difficulty with only one medic/surgeon, but I can see how you may want a backup level 1 surgeon in case your specialist buys a big piece of the farm and is lying on the ground bleeding out.
I play on the hardest one-SJ and only with 4 chars, but I haven't finish the game yet. I need 2 - sometimes you cant avoid investing in that piece of land :)
Some tactics tips:
Before getting into a fight, try your best to scope out your opponents. Do you see a lot of glowing energy weapons? Take that armor off. Some of the later energy weapons do horrendous damage against targets above their "armor threshold". With your armor off, those energy weapons are about as effective as plastic spoons. Just don't forget to put the armor back on after the fight.

Focus fire on one target. A target with 5 con remaining is just as effective as a target with full health. You're better off removing one enemy from the action queue entirely than wounding a whole bunch of them.

Unless you really need to move your guy, you're better off standing still, as some of the APs you save this round carry over to the next. This could translate into an extra shot.
Great ones. I love the first one which is not as obvious than standard tips.

I restarted and changed the first 2 chars .. as our friends comments about Charisma + Leadership made me think only of 100% hit chance on head-shot bursts :D.
I changed the tank for AR as well and made the Sniper a Charismatic guy.
I will update my build in the initial post as well and add some more details on skills.

User avatar
marceror
Adventurer
Posts: 841
Joined: July 1st, 2014, 8:40 am

Re: My party, Tips & Character Creation 101

Post by marceror » October 9th, 2014, 6:41 pm

Tyraforce wrote: Weaponsmithing used to make money? How? You mostly get a mod which sells for less than the weapon and if you want weapon parts than you want a low WS rank. High WS saves some money as it requires you to destroy fewer weapons.
It worked in the beta, and I think it's still possible in the full release, though maybe not as lucrative. But you have to sell to Melson inside Ranger Citadel in particular. He pays a nice amount of cash for broken weapon parts. But again, weapons values have been increased in the full release (buying and selling), so relatively speaking it's not as lucrative as it used to be compared to selling weapons outright.

nidark
Initiate
Posts: 13
Joined: October 6th, 2014, 4:12 pm

Re: My 4 SJ party , Tips & Character Creation 101

Post by nidark » October 10th, 2014, 1:32 am

I restarted and redesigned the party:

The tank now has AR instead of Brawling.
I feel like running to get a punch waste too much AP and, as his actions dont realy pull the enemies (like MMORPG tanks), AR will be better .... also because my new leader is has more than 1 CHA now.

My INT guy gave up the 10INT and 4 STR and spread the points in SPD & CHA.
He become a 16CI with a decent Leadership range (~4 tiles).
He is still a sniper and the 16CI-20CI will make him a great EWP.

The other 2 will only change some skills as now I have less SP ponts at the party level to play with.
I am mainly worried by my total party STR and that my 3 X 2STR guys will cary their guns an 10 ammo at the end :D

Here is my old party for reference. The new one will be updated in the initial post.
Bob, The Brainless Tank
All, meet Bob. He is the fighter spirit of our team. He is also the mule as the others guys only carry their guns and their water. He has high strength & speed so he can take a beating... or run. He is a Melee expert and has a stupid smile on his face when he gets an Energy Weapon. He is also an autodidact medic as he needs to patch himself ... because he goes deep in enemy lines where no one can help him. When he is surrounded by enemies he quickly retreats and throws TNT/Grenades in the middle of the enemies. Did I say that he loves Energy Weapons? … he is crazy about grenades! Oh ... and he doesn't speck.

CLASSIC: 1,1,5,9,10,1,1 -> 1,1,9,9,10,1,1 (or 2,1,8,9,10,1,1)
DMG Stats: 8AP/15CI -> 8AP/19CI (or 9AP/18CI)

Skills (Starting & Lvl40)
Brawling 3(9)
Medic 1(3)
Brute Force 0(5)
Energy 0(9)

Doc, The Educated Killer
Hi, I am Doc. I have the biggest gun. I can be everything you want me to be. To be Continued ….

CLASSIC: (2,1,6,4,4,10,1) -> (2,1,10,4,4,10,1)
DMG Stats:8AP/13CI -> 8AP/17CI

Skills (Starting & Lvl40)
Sniper Rifle 3(9)
Surgeon 1(9)
Toaster Repair 1(2)
Mechanical Repair 1(2)
Weaponsmithing 0(8)
Leadership 0(9)
Smart Ass 0(8)
Blunt 0(9)

Gunny, The Assault Scout
Hello Boys! Show me the Target!To be Continued ….

CLASSIC: (4,1,6,2,10,4,1) -> (4,1,10,2,10,4,1)
DMG Stats: 9AP/16I -> 9AP/20I

Skills (Starting & Lvl40)
Assault Rifles 3(9)
Perception 1(8)
Demolition 1(8)
Computer 1(8)
Surgeon 0(3)

Silent , The Assault Intel
Hello Boys! Where do we need to slip in? To be Continued ….

CLASSIC: (4,1,6,2,10,4,1) -> (4,1,10,2,10,4,1)
DMG Stats: 9AP/16I -> 9AP/20I

Skills (Starting & Lvl40)
Assault Rifles 3(9)
Lockpicking 1(8)
Alarm Disarming 1(8)
Safecracking 1(3)
Medic 0(8)

panisch
Initiate
Posts: 8
Joined: October 4th, 2014, 8:12 am

Re: DMG 4-Man SJ party , Tips & Character Creation 101

Post by panisch » October 10th, 2014, 6:25 am

just wanna add a little thought about tanks/brawlers/melee characters gameplay since alot of ppl complain about the inefficient ap loss on movement, which i agree with.

i use my brawler to
1. stay with my group in cover and intercept the approaching enemies (let them move instead) /to finish off low hp enemies i dont wanna spend high AP AR shots on
2. after i took down the most dangerous enemies / the combat/terrain allows it i run next to an enemies AR or SR user, lowering their accuracy and/or forcing them to move out of cover (basically flanking without moving my high DMG low CON guys out of their superior positions)

you could just not pick a STR guy, but im having more fun with the 2 STR 10 SPD guys than 4 STR 8 SPD, so i kinda feel that need 1 high STR guy.

nidark
Initiate
Posts: 13
Joined: October 6th, 2014, 4:12 pm

Re: DMG 4-Man SJ party , Tips & Character Creation 101

Post by nidark » October 10th, 2014, 11:40 am

panisch wrote:just wanna add a little thought about tanks/brawlers/melee characters gameplay since alot of ppl complain about the inefficient ap loss on movement, which i agree with.

i use my brawler to
1. stay with my group in cover and intercept the approaching enemies (let them move instead) /to finish off low hp enemies i dont wanna spend high AP AR shots on
2. after i took down the most dangerous enemies / the combat/terrain allows it i run next to an enemies AR or SR user, lowering their accuracy and/or forcing them to move out of cover (basically flanking without moving my high DMG low CON guys out of their superior positions)

you could just not pick a STR guy, but im having more fun with the 2 STR 10 SPD guys than 4 STR 8 SPD, so i kinda feel that need 1 high STR guy.
I fully agree with your brawler strategy. I used to use it in the same way and planned to duo with EW later... and indeed 10 SPD is a must for a brawler. .... The damage early on was the thing that discouraged me ...
My party has only 10 SPD ... is clear the best Attribute by far.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests