Armor List (Spoilers)

Check here to discuss Wasteland 2 gameplay topics. Please avoid spoilers in thread titles.

Moderator: Ranger Team Alpha

User avatar
Crosmando
Supreme Jerk
Posts: 5136
Joined: January 3rd, 2013, 8:48 am

Re: Armor List (Spoilers)

Post by Crosmando » June 3rd, 2014, 8:46 pm

You know, I think I actually like how armor isn't physically shown on your character's model, it allows you to keep the unique customized appearance of your Ranger at the same time as the armor bonus. Many RPG's have this issue of characters all looking similar towards the end of the game because they all wear the best armor.
Matthias did nothing wrong!

User avatar
Drool
Forum Moderator
Posts: 9810
Joined: March 17th, 2012, 9:58 pm
Location: Under Tenebrosia, doing shots with Sceadu.

Re: Armor List (Spoilers)

Post by Drool » June 3rd, 2014, 8:57 pm

Yeah, it's a real damned if you, damned if you don't situation. Regardless of their choice, people are going to complain.

Of course, right know, we just don't know exactly what the plan is. They've only just started putting in this functionality.
Alwa nasci korliri das.

User avatar
ClashFan
Explorer
Posts: 327
Joined: November 24th, 2013, 3:23 pm
Location: Knoxville, TN

Re: Armor List (Spoilers)

Post by ClashFan » June 8th, 2014, 12:36 pm

Felixg91 wrote:Power Armor should be the heaviest armor, and since it should enhance strength rather than require it.... :roll:

Uh really?

Am I to understand that we might be wearing armor but it wont change our characters appearance....if so that really blows...cause a waster with a leather jacket missing one sleeve does not look like a Soldier in Power Armor or carapace armor...

Frustration and disgust.
I'm with you on that. The starting character appearances are kind've humorous, for a little while. Once I start getting tactical vests and combat armors, however, I really want it to show. You can still vary the pants/boots and hats to personalize. As the party gains experience and loot, it would be nice for them to start looking more professional/badass.

At least add a "Show Armor" option to character screens! I guess I need to send that via Centercode.

I'll be very surprised if this is not implemented. I mean, the Fallout series and just about every rpg made with graphical paper dolls shows the armor being worn.

Dominativus
Acolyte
Posts: 61
Joined: April 28th, 2013, 8:47 pm

Re: Armor List (Spoilers)

Post by Dominativus » June 8th, 2014, 1:01 pm

I agree there should be an option to show armor on a character if you'd prefer that over clothing. They could just add an option to the right click menu of worn armor to show on the character instead of their clothing. Though that would require more art assets to show all the various armors on character models. But, I'm surprised they didn't already think of this as an option when they came up with the secondary clothing system. Some people will want specific characters of their's to have the armor showing as it fits their vision for that guy. Such as a blunt melee specialist who is the "tank" in chitin or power armor.

User avatar
wrkq
Acolyte
Posts: 64
Joined: April 19th, 2012, 1:21 pm

Re: Armor List (Spoilers)

Post by wrkq » June 8th, 2014, 1:16 pm

Except that in addition to "just adding a checkbox" they'd also need to "just add" and animate a ton of worn armor 3d models... very soon before release.
Are you sure Desert Rangers haven't been to Mars?

User avatar
Drool
Forum Moderator
Posts: 9810
Joined: March 17th, 2012, 9:58 pm
Location: Under Tenebrosia, doing shots with Sceadu.

Re: Armor List (Spoilers)

Post by Drool » June 8th, 2014, 8:29 pm

Yeah, if armor animations aren't already in, it's a little late to add them. If they are in, I'd support a "shadow armor" option. I think one of the Torchlight's had an option like that for helmets so you could see your character's face if you wanted.
Alwa nasci korliri das.

User avatar
Pangaea
Acolyte
Posts: 89
Joined: April 17th, 2012, 6:12 am
Location: Oslo, Norway

Re: Armor List (Spoilers)

Post by Pangaea » June 9th, 2014, 5:51 am

Drool wrote:Yeah, if armor animations aren't already in, it's a little late to add them. If they are in, I'd support a "shadow armor" option. I think one of the Torchlight's had an option like that for helmets so you could see your character's face if you wanted.
I'd be extremely (!!!) disappointed if visible armour isn't in. That would be a huge immersion breaker. It's fine that they want to focus on story, but come on... :? Yet another step backwards?

SagaDC
Global Moderator
Posts: 3506
Joined: May 2nd, 2012, 5:51 am

Re: Armor List (Spoilers)

Post by SagaDC » June 9th, 2014, 2:01 pm

Pangaea wrote:
Drool wrote:Yeah, if armor animations aren't already in, it's a little late to add them. If they are in, I'd support a "shadow armor" option. I think one of the Torchlight's had an option like that for helmets so you could see your character's face if you wanted.
I'd be extremely (!!!) disappointed if visible armour isn't in. That would be a huge immersion breaker. It's fine that they want to focus on story, but come on... :? Yet another step backwards?
I really wouldn't worry that much about it. Just because we haven't seen it yet doesn't mean that it's not in, especially when they're still in the middle of fine-tuning and implementing the clothing system. I mean, I wasn't expecting them to have Weapon Mods actually effect the appearance of weapons, but they snuck THAT in. Just give it a few more builds, and if it still isn't in a month before the game comes out, THEN you can worry.

User avatar
Woolfe
Supreme Jerk
Posts: 5863
Joined: March 22nd, 2012, 6:42 pm

Re: Armor List (Spoilers)

Post by Woolfe » June 9th, 2014, 7:33 pm

What I haven't seen done too often is where the armour is shown, but then additions are shown on top.

So for example you have a helmet, but then you put your hat on top.

Or a combat vest that you put a shirt over, or power armour that you add a "cloak" to. Or Stickers... Or a paint job or any number of other things that allow you to both have the "armour" represented. But prevent the "everyone looks the same" issue.

I personally am not super bothered by the lack of armour appearance. I would prefer it though.
It's not too late. Make it Eight!

Damien Mondragon
Initiate
Posts: 1
Joined: July 5th, 2014, 8:44 am

Re: Armor List (Spoilers)

Post by Damien Mondragon » July 5th, 2014, 10:27 am

SagaDC wrote:Still poking around with the XML Editor, while we wait for the next big patch to come along. This time, I tallied up the full list of armor. Much like weapons, there are six tiers of armor, with two types of armor on each tier - one "Heavy" type that provides more protection at the cost of mobility, and one "Light" type with less protection but more mobility.

Costs start off relatively low at $250, but spike to $5000 by the highest tiers. Aside from the Armor Bonus, certain armors also have a Combat Speed Penalty (reduces movement) and a Strength Requirement:

Armor - Tier 1
Bullet Proof Shirt (Light): +2 Armor, 4 Pounds
Goat Hide Armor (Heavy): +3 Armor, -40 Combat Speed, 5 Strength

Armor - Tier 2
Leather Jacket (Light): +3 Armor
Steel Plate Armor (Heavy): +4 Armor, -80 Combat Speed, 6 Strength

Armor - Tier 3
Combat Armor (Heavy): +5 Armor, -40 Combat Speed, 4 Strength
Tactical Vest (Light): +4 Armor

Armor - Tier 4
Kevlar Suit (Heavy): +6 Armor, -40 Combat Speed
Kevlar Vest (Light): +5 Armor

Armor - Tier 5
Mobile Infantry Armor (Light): +7 Armor, -60 Combat Speed, 4 Strength
Power Armor (Heavy): +9 Armor, -100 Combat Speed

Armor - Tier 6
Pseudo-Chitin Armor (Heavy): +10 Armor, -60 Combat Speed, 7 Strength
Spectrum Assault Vest (Light): +7 Armor

Sounds like the power armor is unpowered power armor lacking functioning servo motors. Shouldn't mechanic skills enable this to be repaired?

Any reason there should not be medium power armor that allows you to move and maneuver faster than heavy power armor (which should also be able to move faster than the average person,) what value lumbering power armor on the battlefields of it's day, armor that is very expensive, yet easy to kill with contemporary man portable anti armor weapons like LAWs and RPGs capable of killing a tank?

The medium suit might offer less protection, but twice or more the speed and/or endurance and strength to the wearer.
Power armor should give the wearer the speed and endurance to give beleagured troops close to breaking and running the feeling serious help is on the way and can save them if they hang on as long as they can, as well give enemy troops the feeling irresistable hell is inbound and they had better move out fast, far and soon if they need to survive.

SagaDC
Global Moderator
Posts: 3506
Joined: May 2nd, 2012, 5:51 am

Re: Armor List (Spoilers)

Post by SagaDC » July 5th, 2014, 10:54 am

Damien Mondragon wrote:Sounds like the power armor is unpowered power armor lacking functioning servo motors. Shouldn't mechanic skills enable this to be repaired?
Well, I didn't mention it above, but I think the Power Armor actually weighs almost nothing - likely to represent the fact that its motors compensate for much of the weight. But at the same time, those motors are nowhere near as fast as an unburdened person moving under their own power would be (hence the -100 Combat Speed).
Damien Mondragon wrote:Any reason there should not be medium power armor that allows you to move and maneuver faster than heavy power armor (which should also be able to move faster than the average person,) what value lumbering power armor on the battlefields of it's day, armor that is very expensive, yet easy to kill with contemporary man portable anti armor weapons like LAWs and RPGs capable of killing a tank?
Unlike the Fallout setting where all sorts of Power Armor suits were developed, both before and after the Great War, I rather suspect that in the Wasteland setting they had barely even reached their prototype stage when the world ended. That is to say, they're about as advanced as they're going to get, at least without some major power spending some time studying and refining the technology.

The ones present in the original game were almost exclusively used by cultists entrenched in a top-secret government facility - probably the same facility the armor was developed in - and nothing has really hinted that anyone else has the technological savvy to build or refine the existing suits. This might change in the late-game for Wasteland 2, since we already know we're up against a technologically advanced cyborg cult, but for the most part I think they'd be more prone to use their technology to improve a person directly rather than improving something someone would have to wear.

It's also entirely possible that we might come across some kind of "unique" power armor at some point, representing a more technologically advanced prototype. My list here doesn't include any potential unique suits of armor that might be included in the final game.

User avatar
Woolfe
Supreme Jerk
Posts: 5863
Joined: March 22nd, 2012, 6:42 pm

Re: Armor List (Spoilers)

Post by Woolfe » July 5th, 2014, 8:11 pm

I haven't seen power armour in the game yet (is it in the beta?)

But the original never had any imagery of it. Do we know if power armour is the "servo motor" style fallout type stuff. (IE very heavy requiring servo motors to allow normal/enhanced movement)

Or is it "power" as in has some sort of powered effect that enhances the defensive nature of the armour.
It's not too late. Make it Eight!

User avatar
Crosmando
Supreme Jerk
Posts: 5136
Joined: January 3rd, 2013, 8:48 am

Re: Armor List (Spoilers)

Post by Crosmando » July 5th, 2014, 8:35 pm

There's no power armor in the beta, highest armor is Combat armor (sold in Ranger Citadel).
Matthias did nothing wrong!

User avatar
Woolfe
Supreme Jerk
Posts: 5863
Joined: March 22nd, 2012, 6:42 pm

Re: Armor List (Spoilers)

Post by Woolfe » July 5th, 2014, 9:55 pm

Crosmando wrote:There's no power armor in the beta, highest armor is Combat armor (sold in Ranger Citadel).
I thought so.. but I haven't been everywhere yet... And probably won't till release now..
It's not too late. Make it Eight!

User avatar
Crosmando
Supreme Jerk
Posts: 5136
Joined: January 3rd, 2013, 8:48 am

Re: Armor List (Spoilers)

Post by Crosmando » July 5th, 2014, 10:31 pm

Would be interesting if power armor did need some kind of battery supply which was consumed whenever you took damage, maybe the same ammo as Energy weapons?
Matthias did nothing wrong!

User avatar
Priest4hire
Explorer
Posts: 480
Joined: May 9th, 2012, 12:38 pm

Re: Armor List (Spoilers)

Post by Priest4hire » July 5th, 2014, 11:23 pm

Makes sense to reuse energy storage technology. Though since movement isn't free, you'd expect even regular power armour to use some sort of power source just to run.
SagaDC wrote:Well, I didn't mention it above, but I think the Power Armor actually weighs almost nothing - likely to represent the fact that its motors compensate for much of the weight. But at the same time, those motors are nowhere near as fast as an unburdened person moving under their own power would be (hence the -100 Combat Speed).
That would render the armour pretty much unusable. Not to mention that if slower motors translates into reaction lag, which it easily could, it would be outright dangerous to use. Though it would be hilarious for the would be badass to leap into the field of battle only for his knee to explode followed by a very undignified squeal and him flopping over to lay helpless on the ground. Odd note, this very problem is what killed early experiments in powered exoskeletons.

At any rate, why would they blow money on armoured versions before the exoskeleton was properly functional? Surely you'd get the exoskeleton up to full capability under load first, and then you'd start designing the actual armour component. Also, why does power armour have to be servos and heavy metal plates a la Fallout? Other than originality being a dirty word that is. How about synthetic muscle and high strength nanotube reinforced ceramics? Or the best of both worlds: powered exoskeleton being used to pack electromagnetic reactive armour.

But to me power armour is basically the revenge of the nerds. As in you can be a spindly little guy but strap into the suit and you can crush the head of the toughest jock like a pimple. It's the armour equivalent of an automobile. You don't need muscle to bury the pedal on the 700HP Dodge Challenger and leave any athlete or horse rider in your dust. That's what über technology is for after all. Personally I'd like to see power armour as the legendary armour of the game. Something that's really awesome, but not game breaking, and requires a good deal of effort to acquire.

SagaDC
Global Moderator
Posts: 3506
Joined: May 2nd, 2012, 5:51 am

Re: Armor List (Spoilers)

Post by SagaDC » July 5th, 2014, 11:25 pm

Oh, yeah, sorry Woolfe. I should have made myself clearer in the original post. All of the armor information above Tier 3 was extrapolated from in-game files using an XML editor. The values present on the Tier 4-6 armors aren't "officially" final, so any one or more of them could still be changed if the Devs decide they need some tweaking. :)

The information is basically what appeared on the item's reference card, which included a short description, the item stats, and a "photo" of the armor (though I honestly can't remember what it looked like at this point - I'll have to glance at it again, later).

EDIT - Oh, but I do have the item's description written down, since I'm kind of OCD that way. The description for power armor is: "This armor is so heavy it has it's own motors to move. +9 Armor, -100 Combat Speed." It's worth noting that my speculation in the above post was largely based on this description, coupled with the fact that this is the only "Heavy" armor option that has no associated Strength requirement (the weight is not, in fact, lighter than average - now that I've double-checked it I can confirm that it is 14 pounds, making it heavier than any other armor in the game).

And, just for the sake of completion, here's the other armor descriptions for the armors that haven't made it into the game yet (again, for the sake of my mild OCD!) -

Kevlar Suit (Tier 4): Full body protection for the Ranger on the go. Bonuses: +6 Armor, -40 Combat Speed.

Kevlar Vest (Tier 4): Light and flexible, this vest provides great protection for its weight. +5 Armor.

Mobile Infantry Armor (Tier 5): The front line troop's armor of a future that never happened. +7 Armor, -60 Combat Speed. Requires: 4 Strength.

Pseudo-Chitin Armor (Tier 6): The best armor pre-war government money could build. +10 Armor, -60 Combat Speed. Requires 7 Strength.

Spectrum Assault Vest (Tier 6): This miracle of technology provides top notch protection while retaining its mobility. +7 Armor.

User avatar
Priest4hire
Explorer
Posts: 480
Joined: May 9th, 2012, 12:38 pm

Re: Armor List (Spoilers)

Post by Priest4hire » July 6th, 2014, 1:06 am

14 pounds? Surely that has to be a placeholder. Armour that's described as so heavy it requires motors to move can't be light enough to carry in one hand. And that necessarily includes the weight of the exoskeleton itself. Already it weighs less than half of what the IOTV (current US Army body armour) does. Strip out the exoskeleton and just use the armour by itself and it would be light enough to do gymnastics in and offer the same protection.

Odd side note: The armour that Tom Cruise wears in Edge of Tomorrow is obviously not real power armour, but it is real in the sense of being a practical suit. With weapons on it weighed 135 pounds. And that's just a mock-up of power armour. Puts things in perspective.

User avatar
Woolfe
Supreme Jerk
Posts: 5863
Joined: March 22nd, 2012, 6:42 pm

Re: Armor List (Spoilers)

Post by Woolfe » July 6th, 2014, 3:17 am

Priest4hire wrote: But to me power armour is basically the revenge of the nerds. As in you can be a spindly little guy but strap into the suit and you can crush the head of the toughest jock like a pimple. It's the armour equivalent of an automobile. You don't need muscle to bury the pedal on the 700HP Dodge Challenger and leave any athlete or horse rider in your dust. That's what über technology is for after all. Personally I'd like to see power armour as the legendary armour of the game. Something that's really awesome, but not game breaking, and requires a good deal of effort to acquire.
:lol: Oh I get that totally... The idea of power armour and its bigger mech type brothers, has always been something I have been a fan of as well.

But the idea of a "power armour" so just a suit of clothes or something that has some sort of energy field/absorbing ability when powered, has always seemed like an obvious thing to me.

And as the original never had an image or an indepth description, it was always up in the air a little.
SagaDC wrote:EDIT - Oh, but I do have the item's description written down, since I'm kind of OCD that way. The description for power armor is: "This armor is so heavy it has it's own motors to move. +9 Armor, -100 Combat Speed." It's worth noting that my speculation in the above post was largely based on this description, coupled with the fact that this is the only "Heavy" armor option that has no associated Strength requirement (the weight is not, in fact, lighter than average - now that I've double-checked it I can confirm that it is 14 pounds, making it heavier than any other armor in the game).
Well thats that then :) I kind of expected that sort of armour anyway, but since it hadn't been defined yet I thought something else may have been a possibility.

Its not an issue for me either way. Just something I was curious about.
It's not too late. Make it Eight!

SagaDC
Global Moderator
Posts: 3506
Joined: May 2nd, 2012, 5:51 am

Re: Armor List (Spoilers)

Post by SagaDC » July 6th, 2014, 4:47 am

Priest4hire wrote:14 pounds? Surely that has to be a placeholder. Armour that's described as so heavy it requires motors to move can't be light enough to carry in one hand. And that necessarily includes the weight of the exoskeleton itself.
It's certainly possible that it's a placeholder value, but then again it might not be. After all, they already use several abstracted weights throughout the current version of the beta. I mean, under the current numbers a set of Steel Plate Armor weighs 13 pounds, and Mobile Infantry Armor weighs 8. I don't know if I'd really expect realistic weight values for any item, let alone armor, especially since some of the other oddball inventory decisions (such as lumping canteens and radiation suits as "communal" party items). I mean honestly, under the current weight system a night stick is heavier than a machine gun or a rocket launcher, and a "long barrel" weapon mod is actually heavier than most of the currently implemented guns.

It could very well just be a weight value that's more based on guesswork, than anything else.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest