How to initiate combat?

Discuss Wasteland 3 gameplay topics like builds, systems, items, and combat. Please avoid spoilers in subject lines.

Moderator: Ranger Team Alpha

Post Reply
Brimsurfer
Initiate
Posts: 17
Joined: February 15th, 2015, 7:34 pm

How to initiate combat?

Post by Brimsurfer »

So what's the most efficient / effective way to initiate combat?

I am not very far in the game , almost level 10 now but I notice that most main fights start with a dialogue. When I get into a certain range of enemy NPCs. a dialogue sequence triggers automatically and when the dialogue ends / transitions into the combat and the combat grid rolls out, my party is often caught standing in the middle of no where like a 'deer caught in headlights' and the whole enemy group just simply unloads everything they have on my party.

Its rare that I get first turn {initiative is kind of mid range}, even if i get the first turn i usually just spend most of my APs looking for cover.

IMO this is a terrible way to start a fight in a turn based game.

Am I doing something wrong, is there a better way to initiate combat or is this how it is in this game?

I have played many turn based games but start of combat never felt so awkward or lame in any other turn based game.

I am really hoping that I am doing something wrong here, otherwise it will be very disappointing as I am having fun with other aspects of the game.

Please advise..
canyonaz
Initiate
Posts: 12
Joined: April 27th, 2013, 7:56 am

Re: How to initiate combat?

Post by canyonaz »

You can usually get people in position individually (not moving the entire group). That way they are in cover already and not standing in the middle of nowhere. Then I liked using a sniper to initiate combat because they could do it from farther away. I had much greater success doing this by attacking someone who wasn't a leader with my sniper than by attacking the person who was probably going to start a conversation. I could always get people in favorable positions - sometimes fantastic positions. There were a few battles where I would try to take the shot with my sniper and conversation would start anyway. But because we were in a good position, it generally wasn't a big deal.

Also, if you pick the Attack conversation option, you usually get initiative back.
Brimsurfer
Initiate
Posts: 17
Joined: February 15th, 2015, 7:34 pm

Re: How to initiate combat?

Post by Brimsurfer »

I tried doing that but so far all the situations I have been in, the dialogue sequence triggers when I am still too far from the enemy group and the cover i used was useless because enemy was out of range and closer cover spots are either already occupied by the enemy or I get shot to hell in trying to get in-range cover spots. My initiative is mid-range but still enemy mostly gets the first turn. Also these auto triggered dialogue sequences make the use of sneaking useless on a non sniper character as sneaking character is usually revealed and often even a sneaking sniper is revealed.
(What the hell kind of programming is this?)

Plus taking a cheap shot from sniper before the combat begins, does not makes sense RP-wise, because I would want to talk before opening fire, there may be a way to resolve the issue without bloodshed?! Not playing as renegade.

If this is how it works then, these dialogue sequences and how these sequences transition into combat need to be implemented better. I never had this kind of issue with any other turn based game, including x-com which, imo is a harder game.

I am loving other aspects of this game, it has Baldur's Gate kind of vibe to it, but how these dialogue sequences transition into combat, is kind of ruining the whole thing for me.

BTW I am playing on Ranger difficulty, its seems most balanced to me so far in terms of damage taken and receive, not sure if enemy gets a boost to initiative on Ranger or not.
User avatar
Juris
Scholar
Posts: 119
Joined: November 25th, 2014, 9:41 am

Re: How to initiate combat?

Post by Juris »

I'm a little unsure what you're asking but outside of a few scripted fights where you have to talk first you can always 'force fire' and initiate combat. The forced dialogue fights are annoying but that's what having initiative is all about. Sneaky shit and speed increase initiative, and there's a few backgrounds and quirks that help as well. If your squad runs headlong into an enemy squad it's initiative. In most cases I think the problem is the bad guys all have the same initiative so they all go at once. As Canyonaz said if you have a 'hard ass' dialogue option to start combat you usually win initiative.
User avatar
marceror
Adventurer
Posts: 989
Joined: July 1st, 2014, 8:40 am

Re: How to initiate combat?

Post by marceror »

Sometimes the game will force a dialogue, whether you are sneaking or even outside of the enemies' direct detection range. Either the devs want to make sure certain plot points are discussed, or they are just enamored with their writing and want to make sure the player sees it.

Most encounters allow you to position your team, sneak around to get flanking shots, and engage the enemy unaware.

Players just need to be cognizant that this approach won't work 100% of the time. It's already a pretty fair advantage the player gets to ambush enemies, so I find it is actually a good thing that it doesn't always work. The enemy should get a chance to a fire off a few rounds too.
Xarastier
Initiate
Posts: 5
Joined: September 30th, 2020, 5:24 pm

Re: How to initiate combat?

Post by Xarastier »

canyonaz wrote: September 29th, 2020, 11:01 pm You can usually get people in position individually (not moving the entire group). That way they are in cover already and not standing in the middle of nowhere. Then I liked using a sniper to initiate combat because they could do it from farther away. I had much greater success doing this by attacking someone who wasn't a leader with my sniper than by attacking the person who was probably going to start a conversation. I could always get people in favorable positions - sometimes fantastic positions. There were a few battles where I would try to take the shot with my sniper and conversation would start anyway. But because we were in a good position, it generally wasn't a big deal.

Also, if you pick the Attack conversation option, you usually get initiative back.
You explain my attack strategy exactly @canyonaz. I wasn't aware of the attack conversation option however, thanks for the heads-up. Keep on, Keep'n on. ;)
Brimsurfer
Initiate
Posts: 17
Joined: February 15th, 2015, 7:34 pm

Re: How to initiate combat?

Post by Brimsurfer »

Well this is just going round in circles, i guess this is how this game works.

Transition from dialogue sequence to combat is very awkward, I have been unable to figure out how to make it work. I am not playing a Renegade so i do not want to take a cheap shot with my sniper at the other party without opening a dialogue first (for RP reasons), as there may not be a need for bloodshed. But if things go south and the dialogue transitions into combat, it transitions very badly with no opportunity to set up. Also most main story impacting battles, start with a dialogue sequences which trigger from miles away so there is no point in setting up before the dialogue, as the enemy is too far out of range.

I never had this problem in x-com or gear tactics or shadowlands, mutants or any other turn based game and I have beaten most on harder difficulties.

Older Fallouts and Wasteland were not cover based so thats why this system worked in those games but since wasteland 3 is cover based, transition from dialogue to combat should have been implemented in a way which allowed the players opportunity to somewhat around the combat field.
Freelancer167
Initiate
Posts: 10
Joined: September 27th, 2020, 6:00 am

Re: How to initiate combat?

Post by Freelancer167 »

Well I recently got caught in this situation with a certain Dentist. Finally I decided to reload and skip this fight for now until I'm confident to survive a round of attacks. I really don't wanna to start the fight by taking a cheap shot without ever talking to this Dentist, well, for role playing reason. :roll:
Brimsurfer
Initiate
Posts: 17
Joined: February 15th, 2015, 7:34 pm

Re: How to initiate combat?

Post by Brimsurfer »

There are quite a few scenarios in the game where this happens and our initiative rating is completely ignored. At this point, I have almost maxed out initiative on most of my party still enemy gets the first turn in most of the story based encounters where dialogue is triggered even when you are far out of combat range and then the whole enemy party gets the first turn.

E.g. encounters in Bizzare Outskirts, encounters in Yuma are some of the examples.

Please change this...

This renders sneaky shit totally useless on a non sniper character as the character is instantly revealed as the dialogue transitions into combat.

I can take a cheap shot with my sniper from miles away but that also one shots the story RP element as I will be missing dialogue and skipping to combat directly in an unnatural way, which is an emersion breaker for me.

Why can't dialogue occur while we are in cover or why does stealth have to be removed if that particular party member is not directly engaged in conversation... Or at least give us a limited action turn to set our characters as soon as dialogue transitions into combat.

I never had this issue in any turn based game. Overall I like the game but this is particular issue is horrible and is ruining the experience.
Post Reply

Return to “Wasteland 3: Gameplay Discussion”