Thing that made Fallout "Fallout"

For all Wasteland 2 discussion that does not fit elsewhere, suggestions, feedback, etc. No spoilers allowed.

Moderator: Ranger Team Alpha

Neohanja
Initiate
Posts: 8
Joined: March 14th, 2012, 9:00 pm

Thing that made Fallout "Fallout"

Post by Neohanja »

I know this has probably been said a lot, but the Fallout feeling. While it was a great series, it isn't Wasteland. Things to avoid I think are:

- Digital "Watches" that track everything about a character and their stats, from some Technology that meant to help our lives a lot. *CoughpipboyCough*

- Vaults. Great idea, explains a lot, but simple, small bomb shelters might work. Just not the whole "testing how societies work then finding out they actually saved people, which was not their real intent."

This is all I can think of that really trademarks Fallout to what it is now. Like someone else said, this shouldn't be or feel like "Fallout 4" or even "Van Buren Resurrected."
Elthosian
Novice
Posts: 39
Joined: March 14th, 2012, 1:17 pm

Re: Thing that made Fallout "Fallout"

Post by Elthosian »

I agree, as much as I hate Bethesda having its dirty hands on the Fallout franchise, Wasteland should continue to be Wasteland, maybe you could put one or two cameos, and adopt some of the things that worked on the original FO games (no point in not doing if it makes the game better), but conserving the Wasteland essence should be your number 1 priority guys, no Vaults, no Vault Boy, no pip-boy!
User avatar
falloutgod13
Explorer
Posts: 356
Joined: March 13th, 2012, 7:38 pm

Re: Thing that made Fallout "Fallout"

Post by falloutgod13 »

After so long of having a portable wasteland PDA accessory it will be a little strange entering a wasteland world without one. I agree though, having one would make it feel too much like Fallout but at the same time.. I wouldn't turn down something very similar. It was damned nifty. But I suppose it's just a stylized and immersive way to view character sheets. We can definitely do without it.
"They finally shoved you in the box they could never fit you in, an empty cell forever locked. So much for best intentions, but some will load the gun and some will hone the knife. Some will raise the fist as they recall your life."
User avatar
Cruxador
Novice
Posts: 45
Joined: March 14th, 2012, 5:27 pm

Re: Thing that made Fallout "Fallout"

Post by Cruxador »

A PDA-type device might make sense. If this is going to be a serious future game rather than a retro-future game, then it would make sense for smart phones to still exist. Most would have broken or ended up with no batteries, but there would still be durable phones with solar rechargers. And even if the "phone" aspect of the device doesn't work, at least not in most locations, they'd still be very useful to Rangers.
Neohanja
Initiate
Posts: 8
Joined: March 14th, 2012, 9:00 pm

Re: Thing that made Fallout "Fallout"

Post by Neohanja »

Touche, a PDA might be fun, just saying, don't run back to the "digital wrist device" idea.
User avatar
burgotastic
Initiate
Posts: 16
Joined: March 16th, 2012, 12:12 am

Re: Thing that made Fallout "Fallout"

Post by burgotastic »

One of the other things that made Fallout Fallout was the "retro-futuristic" style of it. There's been a lot of talk in these forums about ensuring that this is a Wasteland sequel and not a Fallout sequel, and I think that's an important distinction to make.

By retro-futurism, I mean the "this is the future, as it was imagined in the fifties" look, as evidenced in the vehicles, architecture and, perhaps most notably, the Vault-Boy/Vault-Tec posters and artwork. It was cute at first, but by the end of the first Fallout it felt a little over-done, and after 3 more games I'm definitely over it. Besides, it makes it that much more incongruous when they get something wrong and it doesn't fit with this world they've created.

It should be the future as we imagine it today, after it's been subject to a nuclear apocalypse. I think that would go a long way toward avoiding Fallout comparisons.

And that means getting rid of the fifties music too, though I thought that was one of the greatest aspects of the Fallout series.

(my apologies if this has been raised elsewhere already)
User avatar
Ausir
Scholar
Posts: 153
Joined: March 5th, 2012, 2:13 pm

Re: Thing that made Fallout "Fallout"

Post by Ausir »

It should be the future as we imagine it today, after it's been subject to a nuclear apocalypse. I think that would go a long way toward avoiding Fallout comparisons.
Actually, it's shouldn't. The original Wasteland was a future as imagined in 1988, had a nuclear war taking place in 1998, and was very much grounded in the 1980s stylistically. They should not retcon that timeline, but should retain the 1980s retro style.

No 1950s, though, agreed.
geezer
Explorer
Posts: 256
Joined: March 13th, 2012, 5:13 pm

Re: Thing that made Fallout "Fallout"

Post by geezer »

It was set in the late 80s because the game was published in the late 80s. I think it is silly to go for any kind of retro future style. That was Fallout. It's not necessary here. I think the world should be as it would be if it were destroyed maybe 10 years in the future. Trying to imagine anything much further into the future tends to be difficult.
User avatar
Tanglebones
Explorer
Posts: 268
Joined: March 6th, 2012, 5:03 am

Re: Thing that made Fallout "Fallout"

Post by Tanglebones »

Ausir wrote:
It should be the future as we imagine it today, after it's been subject to a nuclear apocalypse. I think that would go a long way toward avoiding Fallout comparisons.
Actually, it's shouldn't. The original Wasteland was a future as imagined in 1988, had a nuclear war taking place in 1998, and was very much grounded in the 1980s stylistically. They should not retcon that timeline, but should retain the 1980s retro style.

No 1950s, though, agreed.
This. Thinking of your avatar, I suggested in different thread that if there had to be a "PDA" type device, it should be a visor. The 80's seemed to think that high tech visors were going to be the way of the future. The Virtual Boy, Geordie LaForge... anyway... there doesn't need to be a visor... not like it'd even really be visible if the sprites are staying the size as they were in Fallout 1&2... but there does need to be an 80's vibe to the game.
geezer wrote:It was set in the late 80s because the game was published in the late 80s. I think it is silly to go for any kind of retro future style. That was Fallout. It's not necessary here. I think the world should be as it would be if it were destroyed maybe 10 years in the future. Trying to imagine anything much further into the future tends to be difficult.
Like Ausir pointed out, the nuclear holocaust happened in 1998... and the Soviet Union was a participant in the nuclear holocaust, so... things have been different in the WL universe at least since 1991, and since 1991 is in the past, but WL2 takes place in the future, I don't see how at least some degree of retrofuturism is avoidable...
User avatar
Ausir
Scholar
Posts: 153
Joined: March 5th, 2012, 2:13 pm

Re: Thing that made Fallout "Fallout"

Post by Ausir »

As a fan of the original, I don't want it to be retconned, but I prefer the new game to follow the original timeline. And hey, an 80s retro vibe is fun!
User avatar
BrotherMagneto
Acolyte
Posts: 69
Joined: March 5th, 2012, 1:06 pm

Re: Thing that made Fallout "Fallout"

Post by BrotherMagneto »

Remember when the 80s was the present and not retro?

:(
DNSDies
Initiate
Posts: 21
Joined: March 14th, 2012, 9:34 am

Re: Thing that made Fallout "Fallout"

Post by DNSDies »

It would be cool to see the the "PDA" type device be something like the old Apple Newton, Palm Pilot 1000, or Psion Series 3.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psion_Series_3
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Newton
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilot_1000

These would all be timescale appropriate, as they were products from the early 1990s.

Even better, a version of the Nokia 9000.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_9000_Communicator

it actually had a phone built in, first PDA with that capability.
Whatever we call it, it needs that 80s/90s futurism vibe where they put an absurd number in the name to make it seem futuristic, like the 9000 in the Nokia 9000.
User avatar
Ausir
Scholar
Posts: 153
Joined: March 5th, 2012, 2:13 pm

Re: Thing that made Fallout "Fallout"

Post by Ausir »

I like the visor idea myself.
User avatar
homeslice82
Scholar
Posts: 203
Joined: March 13th, 2012, 9:45 pm

Re: Thing that made Fallout "Fallout"

Post by homeslice82 »

The original was '80s pulp. Keep it that way.
User avatar
Hiver
Adventurer
Posts: 743
Joined: March 13th, 2012, 4:17 pm

Re: Thing that made Fallout "Fallout"

Post by Hiver »

Ahem... i hope some attention will be taken when designing this retro feeling.
There were terrible things in the 80... terrible!

And, really 98 was very far from the 80 themselves, at least in our history. Maybe it would be better to throw in some 90s into the mix. Have it clash with the 80 retro all the way to having gangs representing each era fighting with each other.

But i would certainly want to see some "normal" people... everyone being in those horrible haircuts and fashion will be intolerable if overdone.


-also- i cant resist but correct the OP and several other posters about what actually made fallout "Fallout".
The art style was just one of the components including the retro 50... and no, the Pip boy was not worn on the wrist.
It was more like an electronic book of sorts or... yeah...PDA.
Some people that much later on decided to present it in different manner had a lot to do with what does not make Fallout, "Fallout" actually. And if anything, they proven thoroughly that just copying art style and setting isnt enough.

- this had to be said. I was refraining from it for half a day. carry on.
Psilos
Acolyte
Posts: 57
Joined: March 16th, 2012, 2:55 pm

Re: Thing that made Fallout "Fallout"

Post by Psilos »

Why not have the Radio used to radio in to the ranger center also act as a PDA ?

Actually I think a description of the Pipboy back in fallout 1 or 2 already described it as a being worn on the wrist.

Also I do believe that the Pipboy being able to read Holodisks was a very important feature.
Last edited by Psilos on March 16th, 2012, 3:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Ausir
Scholar
Posts: 153
Joined: March 5th, 2012, 2:13 pm

Re: Thing that made Fallout "Fallout"

Post by Ausir »

The art style was just one of the components including the retro 50... and no, the Pip boy was not worn on the wrist.
It was more like an electronic book of sorts or... yeah...PDA.
It was worn on the wrist.

http://www.falloutwiki.com/Pip-Boy_2000
User avatar
Quarex
Scholar
Posts: 132
Joined: March 6th, 2012, 2:46 pm

Re: Thing that made Fallout "Fallout"

Post by Quarex »

Geezer, I thought we already had this discussion elsewhere but I am probably thinking of someone else; yes, Wasteland was 1980s themed because it was made in the 1980s, but the 1980s were also the last period of true nuclear-armageddon fears and Cold War paranoia, both of which are great elements for post-apocalyptic fiction (in fact, so far, they have been basically essential). Taking today's world of pop culture for inspiration would just be sad.

I think it would be fairly amusing if you could find a vault in the game, that of course had long since collapsed after the occupants ran out of air decades before it was due to open.
geezer
Explorer
Posts: 256
Joined: March 13th, 2012, 5:13 pm

Re: Thing that made Fallout "Fallout"

Post by geezer »

hiver wrote:Ahem... i hope some attention will be taken when designing this retro feeling.
There were terrible things in the 80... terrible!
What are you referring to exactly? I remember the obsession with 'feathered' hair and skin tight Jordache jeans and fuzzy sweaters. Surely the 70s were worse. Now that was a true embarrassment. And it wasn't even just in the US. The whole world seemed to fall in love with bad taste in every way. Luckily I was too young to remember the whole decade very well.
Quarex wrote:Geezer, I thought we already had this discussion elsewhere but I am probably thinking of someone else; yes, Wasteland was 1980s themed because it was made in the 1980s, but the 1980s were also the last period of true nuclear-armageddon fears and Cold War paranoia, both of which are great elements for post-apocalyptic fiction (in fact, so far, they have been basically essential). Taking today's world of pop culture for inspiration would just be sad.
Have we had this discussion? Anyway, you do have a point about the nuclear paranoia of the 80s, but that is just how things happened to play out. Things could have been different. I don't necessarily think that is a sufficient justification for a post-80s setting. I haven't played Wasteland, but if the game was published in 1988 and the war was supposed to have happened in 1998 it seems like the original devs had a similar idea to mine.

The fall of the Berlin wall happened only a year after the game was published. Bad timing there. Already the game story became implausible and dated. If we are going to pay attention to the actual history at the very least we should have the war happen before the fall of the Berlin wall. Probably before the first game was even published. But I certainly don't think that's the only option.

What's so bad about current pop culture? It doesn't seem any worse to me than 80s culture. In fact, with the possible exception of the Facebook generation feeling the need to communicate exclusively through cell phone texting, I think I prefer things as they are now. I'm not entirely sure how different the game would be if it were set in the 80s versus now anyway. I guess the cars would be different. And no cell phones. And computers were more primitive.
User avatar
Smejki
Scholar
Posts: 137
Joined: March 15th, 2012, 11:12 am

Re: Thing that made Fallout "Fallout"

Post by Smejki »

Hey, definitely. Thou being big FO fan, I don't want WL2 to copy its style and game mechanics. Only the gamedesign philosophy which was almost the same.
Post Reply

Return to “Wasteland 2: General Discussion”