Backer Alpha discussion

For Bard's Tale IV gameplay-related discussion. May include gameplay details and spoilers.

Moderator: Bard Hall Bouncers

Post Reply
User avatar
Gizmo
Grandmaster
Posts: 3422
Joined: March 6th, 2012, 6:25 am

Re: Backer Alpha discussion

Post by Gizmo » April 19th, 2018, 10:20 pm

The Disciples series dates back to the late 90's. It is turn based, and challenging, but it does include a (~deliberately~) bad auto-combat ai option. For fights that seem tedious, the player can choose to let the CPU handle it—though they will very likely take more damage to their party than if they had played the rounds themselves.

User avatar
Lord of Riva
Adventurer
Posts: 922
Joined: October 14th, 2014, 10:18 am

Re: Backer Alpha discussion

Post by Lord of Riva » April 19th, 2018, 11:11 pm

Gizmo wrote:
April 19th, 2018, 10:20 pm
The Disciples series dates back to the late 90's. It is turn based, and challenging, but it does include a (~deliberately~) bad auto-combat ai option. For fights that seem tedious, the player can choose to let the CPU handle it—though they will very likely take more damage to their party than if they had played the rounds themselves.
unless you use werewolfs that are immune to physical damage and since most attacks are physical you have basically won any auto combat.

i would be careful using that game series as an example :lol:

User avatar
Gizmo
Grandmaster
Posts: 3422
Joined: March 6th, 2012, 6:25 am

Re: Backer Alpha discussion

Post by Gizmo » April 19th, 2018, 11:34 pm

Lord of Riva wrote:
April 19th, 2018, 11:11 pm
unless you use werewolfs that are immune to physical damage and since most attacks are physical you have basically won any auto combat.

i would be careful using that game series as an example :lol:
There were too many great aspects to that series... but it was certainly not the only one to have an automatic combat option.

*Mainly it was just Disciples 2 chapters/expansions that were good; but the D3 games had certain merits.

User avatar
Lord of Riva
Adventurer
Posts: 922
Joined: October 14th, 2014, 10:18 am

Re: Backer Alpha discussion

Post by Lord of Riva » April 20th, 2018, 4:24 am

Gizmo wrote:
April 19th, 2018, 11:34 pm
Lord of Riva wrote:
April 19th, 2018, 11:11 pm
unless you use werewolfs that are immune to physical damage and since most attacks are physical you have basically won any auto combat.

i would be careful using that game series as an example :lol:
There were too many great aspects to that series... but it was certainly not the only one to have an automatic combat option.

*Mainly it was just Disciples 2 chapters/expansions that were good; but the D3 games had certain merits.
i was just poking fun at you Gizmo, everything is fine :)

User avatar
ZiN
Adventurer
Posts: 546
Joined: January 27th, 2015, 7:57 am

Re: Backer Alpha discussion

Post by ZiN » April 20th, 2018, 7:46 am

Zombra wrote:
April 19th, 2018, 2:25 pm
As always, I respect your passion for the classics, but in this case I disagree that it's sufficient reason to take the teeth out of gameplay. "I 'should be' able to walk over them" = "some encounters should be trivial" = "some gameplay should just be going through the motions". Leaving aside faith to the classics, is there a reason that conflicts you can overcome with your eyes closed honestly excite you as a player?

I mean, I guess if you want to step on rats at level 10, I won't be mad if they allow it in the game, but it shouldn't be rewarded.
A few years ago, around the time of the Kickstarter campaign, some developer specifically mentioned, that going back to lower level areas and mopping the floor, with the same trash mobs that kicked your ass a dozen levels ago, was fun and satisfying. Just as the opposite, when you stumble upon a group, from which you have to run, with your tail between your legs, then plan your revenge.

demeisen
Explorer
Posts: 263
Joined: July 11th, 2015, 9:59 am

Re: Backer Alpha discussion

Post by demeisen » April 20th, 2018, 12:53 pm

(Bringing this quote over from the vote thread):
Zombra wrote:- Large dynamic spell selection / versatility (not <=5 at once)
- Long term SP pool (spell AP cost subtracts from, no casting when zero)
- Use for unused AP (carry over half, and/or allow better defense)
- Per-character AP pool, rather than per party
Commentary: the latter 4 combat changes would all undermine the basic structure of the combat. I like the basic structure of the combat. Party "Opportunity" points instead of per-character AP is a cool concept for example.
You think so? I like the basic structure of combat too, but I want to try to make a case that these things could fit within that basic structure.

I'm one who's on-board with the 2D combat grid, the relatively tactical combat system, etc. I like a lot of what we've seen. However, I'm also in favor of things like a "long term SP pool", and most likely also "large dynamic spell selection". Consider long term SP for instance. I'm imagining my PC has (say) 40 SP. He casts a 2 AP spell, which comes out of the round's AP just like in the alpha, but also is subtracted from his long term SP pool. Now he's got 38. When his SP reaches zero - just as in BT1 - that's it: no more casting until you get more. Thus, just like health, you have to manage your SP pool over time. There could be very similar mechanics to the originals around how to gain more SP. EDIT: also, similar to the feel I had in BT1, it encourages using melee where possible, and "heavy hitting" spells where they give the best bang for the buck, so there's some larger scale tactical considerations that fall out.

I think it could fit in nicely with the 2D combat, the wave scheme, and so on.

Similar story for Gizmo's idea about spells to damage subsequent combat waves. I feel like it's a mechanic that could be layered on top, without being at odds with anything except a bit of game balance. It'd make subsequent waves easier (depending on how many SP you spent), so that needs balance to remain fun. But otherwise, seems like it'd work out.

waltc
Scholar
Posts: 146
Joined: July 1st, 2015, 11:51 am

Re: Backer Alpha discussion

Post by waltc » April 26th, 2018, 2:27 pm

Roscoe wrote:
March 22nd, 2018, 4:38 pm
Here you go



SPOILER ALERT!
https://youtu.be/uuW56ruKmO0

The lower resolution is my streaming settings and not the game settings. It looks way better in the game :) I really need to play with my stream settings

For those of you who didn't get access to the Alpha, or for those who ran through it quickly and missed some things. This is what I found in 4 runs.

No messing around. Nice and quick :)

If I missed anything, PLEASE tell me. I know there's more to that sword
Enjoyed that and the higher res (720P) version, as well. Hopefully, I'll be able to play the game @ 2560x1440, however...;) It's difficult to say because even 720P is an unacceptably low resolution, but the combat UI for the characters the player controls could do with a bit of work, or else I'm hoping there will be an alternate UI we'll be able to use, instead. Aside from the combat UI, the other graphics look to be very nicely done, indeed. But...during combat, I don't get the backwards facing thing at all--talking to you, the player, and talking to each other, they always turn away from the enemy towards either the player (or each other, presumably)--even when you move one of your characters, they move to another square while facing backwards-- a neat trick. Their mouths don't move--which distracts, and their facial expressions seem non-expressive and flat in the scene context. Then there's the giant text that flashes on screen to let you know it's "your turn" or the "enemy turn"--that could be far more subtle and nowhere nearly as immersion breaking. There's also the aspect ratio difference between the first-person game world at eye level and the characters in psuedo-third-person view, as if the player is standing on a ladder, or a pair of stilts, behind the characters looking down on them. It really is disconcerting after awhile. So much activity is going on among your characters in combat that it distracts from the clobbering the enemy effects--which is what the combat in the game is all about. (Mage fire running like burning napalm through a horde of desiccated skeletons is just the thing for an after-breakfast romp, etc.) But...this is what it looks like to me at 720P, so maybe at a much higher game res things won't look so strange during combat. This is 100% constructive criticism that I hope will be heard by the right people before the game ships. If the powers that be feel it's too late to monkey with the combat UI, how about at least shoehorning in an alternate UI..? (Reserving judgement of course until I can see the game at a proper resolution, and in a more finished form.)

geekgirl
Initiate
Posts: 1
Joined: May 5th, 2018, 8:33 pm

Re: Backer Alpha discussion

Post by geekgirl » May 5th, 2018, 8:41 pm

Hi,

I can't seem to figure out how to activate my backer rewards. I have the survey email, I got to download HEX, but I am not sure how to access any of the other digital downloads. Can you point me in the right direction?

User avatar
phimseto
Developer
Posts: 617
Joined: April 18th, 2012, 7:01 am

Re: Backer Alpha discussion

Post by phimseto » May 7th, 2018, 8:47 am

You can drop a note to support AT inxile.net and let us know what email address you used when you backed the game. That will allow us to take a look at your account and see what's up.

User avatar
Crosmando
Supreme Jerk
Posts: 5095
Joined: January 3rd, 2013, 8:48 am

Re: Backer Alpha discussion

Post by Crosmando » May 27th, 2018, 2:19 am

Gizmo wrote:
April 19th, 2018, 10:20 pm
The Disciples series dates back to the late 90's. It is turn based, and challenging, but it does include a (~deliberately~) bad auto-combat ai option. For fights that seem tedious, the player can choose to let the CPU handle it—though they will very likely take more damage to their party than if they had played the rounds themselves.
>that feel when the auto-combat in D2 sometimes gives me better results than manual
Matthias did nothing wrong!

User avatar
Gizmo
Grandmaster
Posts: 3422
Joined: March 6th, 2012, 6:25 am

Re: Backer Alpha discussion

Post by Gizmo » May 27th, 2018, 3:18 am

Crosmando wrote:
May 27th, 2018, 2:19 am
>that feel when the auto-combat in D2 sometimes gives me better results than manual
Human error? :mrgreen:

Witless_Steve
Initiate
Posts: 1
Joined: May 28th, 2018, 2:48 am

Re: Backer Alpha discussion

Post by Witless_Steve » May 28th, 2018, 2:50 am

Downloaded the Alpha to have a look at how it's developing, it installed fine.
I can open the game, get the loading screen, get a flickery version of the InXile logo and then blank.
Is it just me getting this?

User avatar
Orpheus the Bard
Scholar
Posts: 213
Joined: July 2nd, 2015, 3:48 am

Re: Backer Alpha discussion

Post by Orpheus the Bard » June 8th, 2018, 2:25 am

Hello, anything happen when I was gone?


Is there going to be a a Beta?
Image

User avatar
Grohal
Adventurer
Posts: 981
Joined: April 26th, 2013, 9:51 pm

Re: Backer Alpha discussion

Post by Grohal » June 8th, 2018, 3:35 am

Orpheus the Bard wrote:
June 8th, 2018, 2:25 am
Hello, anything happen when I was gone?


Is there going to be a a Beta?
Last update:

"Hi all, Paul here with a quick update! To start off, many of you have asked, so we wanted to share a quick head's up with you: the Backer Beta is coming out this July, and while we don't have a set date to announce yet, it will be in the earlier part of the month. Stay tuned for more information on the beta as we get closer to its release! "
Hell is no place, hell is a condition.

User avatar
Orpheus the Bard
Scholar
Posts: 213
Joined: July 2nd, 2015, 3:48 am

Re: Backer Alpha discussion

Post by Orpheus the Bard » June 8th, 2018, 4:58 am

Grohal wrote:
June 8th, 2018, 3:35 am
Orpheus the Bard wrote:
June 8th, 2018, 2:25 am
Hello, anything happen when I was gone?


Is there going to be a a Beta?
Last update:

"Hi all, Paul here with a quick update! To start off, many of you have asked, so we wanted to share a quick head's up with you: the Backer Beta is coming out this July, and while we don't have a set date to announce yet, it will be in the earlier part of the month. Stay tuned for more information on the beta as we get closer to its release! "
Thanks for the heads up.
Image

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests