Page 2 of 3

Re: The things I hated the most with the companions in WL2

Posted: March 6th, 2019, 9:47 pm
by Mole204
Highwayman667 wrote:
March 3rd, 2019, 4:44 pm
I don't think any of it deserves to be called garbage writing, and it's a tiny biiiiiit disrespectful to do so.

Regardless, some choice in regards to the fate of our companions would've probably been nice. I liked Rose enough that I would've loved being able to save her from being hacked.
Oh, you're entirely right, but even still I'm letting them off easy. Bit of a sore point how Wl2 did not go in the direction created for and from WL1. But that's OK. New decade, new game, and really there was a lot of "all is forgiven just come back" feeling from much of the old WL1 crowd, including myself. Then we got WL2. I won't go into the long speech of moving from puzzlement over less than thrilling, through missed opportunities, to obvious middle fingers. But there were good parts, and with WL3 120% funded... perhaps it will be better?
I understand how you can see the hacking of Lex and Rose as one of the mishandled parts of the game, but with the lack of post-finale' free-world-wandering in WL2, perhaps the programmers just didn't want to let us stack superior versions of Lex and Rose in the character list? Would going on to a better "bought the farm" ending have seemed fitting, or hackneyed?

Re: The things I hated the most with the companions in WL2

Posted: March 7th, 2019, 1:51 am
by Grohal
The only thing that I hated about the companions was that their kill stats were resetted to zero if they left or were kicked temporally out of of the party and returning later.

Re: The things I hated the most with the companions in WL2

Posted: March 16th, 2019, 6:10 am
by Highwayman667
I didn't hate any companions but I never really had anyone tag along with my squad.

Four people is already waaaaay too much. A four-people party, the Bioware number, is just perfect.

Re: The things I hated the most with the companions in WL2

Posted: March 16th, 2019, 6:36 am
by Grohal
Highwayman667 wrote:
March 16th, 2019, 6:10 am
I didn't hate any companions but I never really had anyone tag along with my squad.

Four people is already waaaaay too much. A four-people party, the Bioware number, is just perfect.
No no no, it is 4 + 3, else it is not Wasteland. :mrgreen:

Re: The things I hated the most with the companions in WL2

Posted: March 16th, 2019, 6:57 am
by Gillsing
4+3 was fine with the old way to handle combat, but when I have to physically move them all around in every fight it gets a bit tiresome. I liked the Bard's Tale 2004 style of combat: One bard, and a number of autonomous summons who handle themselves with different AI behaviours, and who can easily be summoned again when needed.

I usually tried to get by with as few characters as possible even back in The Bard's Tale 1, even if it required blatant cheating. It's hard to infuse an entire team with enough personality to make them feel like individuals instead of just another combatant to apply damage to the enemies and beneficial abilities to the team. Presumably that's why most stories don't have six or seven main characters who are all working together. With that many characters it simply seems more interesting to have them work against one another.

Re: The things I hated the most with the companions in WL2

Posted: March 16th, 2019, 9:30 am
by Highwayman667
Grohal wrote:
March 16th, 2019, 6:36 am
No no no, it is 4 + 3, else it is not Wasteland. :mrgreen:
Well, it is, considering how different the companions are from the squad members :lol:

But I don't know, I guess in general I don't like so many companions, except perhaps in Arcanum AND ONLY when I am near the endgame.

Re: The things I hated the most with the companions in WL2

Posted: March 17th, 2019, 12:14 am
by Woolfe
No thanks. 6 was always the ideal number for me. 4+3 was ok.

I hate just 4.... 4 is just rubbish.

Re: The things I hated the most with the companions in WL2

Posted: March 17th, 2019, 10:43 pm
by vyvexthorne
I think the main problem with companions is how the skill system worked. I always feel like I'm frantically trying to keep up with the skill percent needed as the game progresses and so the right companions are only the ones with the right skills that fill out my party. If they had simply based the percents on 10.. (you have 4 pips in lockpick so you have a 40% chance of opening a level 10 lock and level 10 is the highest locks go...) then you wouldn't be so concerned about switching companions out as you could easily give them a few skills that would work with your party and have the time to make them feel like useful party members.

Re: The things I hated the most with the companions in WL2

Posted: March 19th, 2019, 5:05 pm
by Highwayman667
Woolfe wrote:
March 17th, 2019, 12:14 am
I hate just 4.... 4 is just rubbish.
*Glares in Bioware*

Re: The things I hated the most with the companions in WL2

Posted: March 19th, 2019, 6:30 pm
by Woolfe
Highwayman667 wrote:
March 19th, 2019, 5:05 pm
Woolfe wrote:
March 17th, 2019, 12:14 am
I hate just 4.... 4 is just rubbish.
*Glares in Bioware*
:D

I don't know I just find 4 characters, in a party game to be ... lacking.

6 for me was always the ideal number (Gold box credentials are showing :lol: )

I don't normally like Non player created characters. Indeed in the old Goldbox games and other 6 character games, I tended to only ever have npc's in my party for specific purposes. After that I didn't care if they went away.

Wasteland was always different, because 4 players wasn't enough, you had to have the companions. But I never really liked them much. Though I was still saddened to see almost every single one dead in the graveyard. :x

Re: The things I hated the most with the companions in WL2

Posted: March 20th, 2019, 7:28 am
by Highwayman667
Woolfe wrote:
March 19th, 2019, 6:30 pm
I don't know I just find 4 characters, in a party game to be ... lacking.

6 for me was always the ideal number (Gold box credentials are showing :lol: )
That's probably it. The RPG's we first played are probably the ones who influenced our preferences as well.

I mostly gained my RPG credentials playing with 3 - 4 characters, which is a setup mostly present in Bioware games like Kotor, Mass Effect and the Dragon Age saga. Then again, there was always something that bothered me in Arcanum about having a seven people party; too many folks for my taste. Same issue came up with Wasteland, though I am satisfied with the option of just using your regular "four men" squad.

It's the same as always, choice makes for a good RPG.

Re: The things I hated the most with the companions in WL2

Posted: March 20th, 2019, 10:12 pm
by Woolfe
Highwayman667 wrote:
March 20th, 2019, 7:28 am
Woolfe wrote:
March 19th, 2019, 6:30 pm
I don't know I just find 4 characters, in a party game to be ... lacking.

6 for me was always the ideal number (Gold box credentials are showing :lol: )
That's probably it. The RPG's we first played are probably the ones who influenced our preferences as well.

I mostly gained my RPG credentials playing with 3 - 4 characters, which is a setup mostly present in Bioware games like Kotor, Mass Effect and the Dragon Age saga. Then again, there was always something that bothered me in Arcanum about having a seven people party; too many folks for my taste. Same issue came up with Wasteland, though I am satisfied with the option of just using your regular "four men" squad.

It's the same as always, choice makes for a good RPG.
Agreed 100%. I have no doubt it was those original experiences that influenced me. Though I did play the others. As I said for me it was the old Gold box games and their ilk, that tended to be 6 or 6+2. Interestingly I think it was the Might and Magic and Bard's Tale games that had more (8-10), and then Eye of the beholder and Wasteland games that had a 4 character limit. I played all of them to varying degrees. And it was the 6 PC ones that I always lent to. But that could well have been the "tactical" style of the gold box games as well.

I'm also not counting the chosen one type games. Where you create 1 player Character, and then have any number of "Companions" join you. They aren't "Party" games to me. Despite their being a party. I guess I define it as Player created characters.

My issue I guess at the moment, is that people seem to think 4 is some sort of perfect number, to the extent of ignoring the larger groups. I think some of that is the desire to appeal to more "casual" (and I use that term very tentatively) players. I also hate RTwP games. Turn based is so much nicer.

Where are the 6 Player created character games. :( :(

Re: The things I hated the most with the companions in WL2

Posted: March 21st, 2019, 10:49 pm
by Stuurminator
Woolfe wrote:
March 19th, 2019, 6:30 pm
Wasteland was always different, because 4 players wasn't enough, you had to have the companions. But I never really liked them much. Though I was still saddened to see almost every single one dead in the graveyard. :x
If it makes you feel better, this was changed shortly after release. Now the graveyard is mostly full of users from this forum. I think the only recruits still buried there are Ace (obviously), Ralf, and one other that I can't remember right now - I want to say either Dr. Mike Scott or Redhawk.

Vargas also says Chirstina is dead if you talk to him, but I guess she doesn't get a grave. Maybe she was dishonorably discharged after ripping one too many clips.

Re: The things I hated the most with the companions in WL2

Posted: May 29th, 2019, 2:17 am
by fuzzyballs01
I like companions, I like playing as an actual adventuring party, so 6 people with different skills to complement the whole team
but when you know how to play, you don't really need them anymore in W3 on anything but the highest difficulty

what I would have liked more is if you actually played as a ranger group, instead your 4 created rangers acted like some hivemind with no thoughts besides the textboxes
I would have liked it if you could select a voice or personality and a background for created rangers, and they'd react to situations like followers did
or you could select none for the first ranger because most of the time, that ranger's going to be you
with your thoughts about stuff

Re: The things I hated the most with the companions in WL2

Posted: May 29th, 2019, 5:20 pm
by Highwayman667
fuzzyballs01 wrote:
May 29th, 2019, 2:17 am
I like companions, I like playing as an actual adventuring party, so 6 people with different skills to complement the whole team
but when you know how to play, you don't really need them anymore in W3 on anything but the highest difficulty

what I would have liked more is if you actually played as a ranger group, instead your 4 created rangers acted like some hivemind with no thoughts besides the textboxes
I would have liked it if you could select a voice or personality and a background for created rangers, and they'd react to situations like followers did
or you could select none for the first ranger because most of the time, that ranger's going to be you
with your thoughts about stuff
You must've liked Divinity: Original Sin then.

Re: The things I hated the most with the companions in WL2

Posted: July 3rd, 2019, 7:04 am
by Tim McBride
I'd prefer 2 4-man teams, even if the 2nd 4 man team I could only give general orders to like "supress this direction" "flank this side" etc
Way beyond the WL franchise, so the 4 + 3 model works best as a balance.

Re: The things I hated the most with the companions in WL2

Posted: July 11th, 2019, 3:33 pm
by Nexus
I like NPC's characters that have a good background. Even if its just a bio on there stats page. I thought some of the NPC's were well done if maybe a little lite with game content about them in wasteland 2. Problem is with RPGs is since they're pre-gen'd characters, I find myself with limited choice without having extreme redundancy or lacking other skills then. The only way to really do it right is to do you party build with the NPC's in mind you want to use ahead of time.

And with the skill progression in wasteland that means suffering a good portion of the game lacking those skills until you get the NPC unless you beeline for some of the early ones.

It just strikes me as a sad waste for well done NPCs mid to late game. I always wanted to play a bit more with rose, but IIRC she was a medic/surgeon? so you pretty need that covered walking out the door of ranger center(or at least to make it through ag center) but she COULD be beelined early game, I just never did it.

Re: The things I hated the most with the companions in WL2

Posted: July 11th, 2019, 5:16 pm
by Gillsing
Nexus wrote:
July 11th, 2019, 3:33 pm
I always wanted to play a bit more with rose, but IIRC she was a medic/surgeon? so you pretty need that covered walking out the door of ranger center(or at least to make it through ag center) but she COULD be beelined early game, I just never did it.
You can pick up Rose as soon as you get inside Ag Center, and she only does Surgery, not Field Medic, so as long as none of your Rangers lose all their constitution in the first couple of areas (Radio Tower and Ag Center Killing Fields) there's no reason to have Surgery covered by your own Rangers. Her real strength is in Computer Science and Alarm Disarm anyway.

I think a fun way to play the game might be to rotate the NPC recruits and let them handle utility skills, while your badass created Rangers are built for combat, since that's the activity that doesn't just rely on skill levels. That way you'd have to pick up suitable recruits for each trip and go back and forth over the map whenever you realise that you need the skill of a recruit you left back at the HQ. And then walk back and forth some more if you need to level them up so they can raise the skill(s) you need them to have.

But that's not how I've been playing the game. I just picked out the three earliest recruits (Scotchmo, Ralphy, Rose) and just left the rest at HQ all the time.

Re: The things I hated the most with the companions in WL2

Posted: July 12th, 2019, 3:13 pm
by Stuurminator
Gillsing wrote:
July 11th, 2019, 5:16 pm
Nexus wrote:
July 11th, 2019, 3:33 pm
I always wanted to play a bit more with rose, but IIRC she was a medic/surgeon? so you pretty need that covered walking out the door of ranger center(or at least to make it through ag center) but she COULD be beelined early game, I just never did it.
You can pick up Rose as soon as you get inside Ag Center, and she only does Surgery, not Field Medic, so as long as none of your Rangers lose all their constitution in the first couple of areas (Radio Tower and Ag Center Killing Fields) there's no reason to have Surgery covered by your own Rangers. Her real strength is in Computer Science and Alarm Disarm anyway.
You can also never have too many surgeons, even if your redundancies only have one level in the skill apiece. There's nothing worse than barely scraping through a hard fight, then watching your surgeon bleed out on the floor while the rest of your team shrugs their shoulders at each other.

Re: The things I hated the most with the companions in WL2

Posted: July 12th, 2019, 4:17 pm
by Gillsing
Stuurminator wrote:
July 12th, 2019, 3:13 pm
You can also never have too many surgeons, even if your redundancies only have one level in the skill apiece. There's nothing worse than barely scraping through a hard fight, then watching your surgeon bleed out on the floor while the rest of your team shrugs their shoulders at each other.
As long as you keep a Cleric's Cross trinket on someone who's not the surgeon, they could wear that and suddenly gain the magical ability to use Basic Trauma Kits. Or they could just have a couple of spare skill points and learn the skill right then and there. I have given each team member a Basic Trauma Kit just in case they're the only one available to save the surgeon.