Player-Created Characters Are HUGELY Important.

Discussion about the upcoming Wasteland 3!

Moderator: Ranger Team Alpha

User avatar
Drool
Forum Moderator
Posts: 10171
Joined: March 17th, 2012, 9:58 pm

Re: PLAYER-CREATED CHARACTERS ARE HUGELY IMPORTANT.

Post by Drool »

So did spells, doesn't mean they'd fit in either.
Alwa nasci korliri das.
User avatar
Highwayman667
Acolyte
Posts: 85
Joined: October 4th, 2018, 12:49 pm

Re: PLAYER-CREATED CHARACTERS ARE HUGELY IMPORTANT.

Post by Highwayman667 »

Drool wrote: October 4th, 2018, 5:43 pm So did spells, doesn't mean they'd fit in either.
If people are sure about what they want, then it would deffinitely not work for this iteration of Wasteland to have a "Developer Created Character". Players and developers both want their squad made with their own creativity, then it's better for them to have it.

But if a lot of people had been told that an RPG franchise (The Witcher series) was coming that would not allow you to create your own character, and that it would be one of the best videogame series of all time, nobody would've believed it.

So honestly, if Wasteland 4 prohibits player-created characters... it could be a good thing as well !
User avatar
Woolfe
Supreme Jerk
Posts: 5891
Joined: March 22nd, 2012, 6:42 pm

Re: PLAYER-CREATED CHARACTERS ARE HUGELY IMPORTANT.

Post by Woolfe »

Highwayman667 wrote: October 10th, 2018, 8:21 am
Drool wrote: October 4th, 2018, 5:43 pm So did spells, doesn't mean they'd fit in either.
If people are sure about what they want, then it would deffinitely not work for this iteration of Wasteland to have a "Developer Created Character". Players and developers both want their squad made with their own creativity, then it's better for them to have it.

But if a lot of people had been told that an RPG franchise (The Witcher series) was coming that would not allow you to create your own character, and that it would be one of the best videogame series of all time, nobody would've believed it.

So honestly, if Wasteland 4 prohibits player-created characters... it could be a good thing as well !
No one is saying it couldn't be good. We are saying that for us, the Player created characters is something we loved, and want. You can create Dev Created characters if you want, but don't force us to make use of them, even if it is only for an arbitrary amount of time (See BT4)
It's not too late. Make it Eight!
User avatar
Zombra
Global Moderator
Posts: 6219
Joined: March 8th, 2012, 10:50 pm

Re: PLAYER-CREATED CHARACTERS ARE HUGELY IMPORTANT.

Post by Zombra »

Highwayman667 wrote: October 10th, 2018, 8:21 amSo honestly, if Wasteland 4 prohibits player-created characters... it could be a good thing as well !
Let me be clear. I don't disagree that "Wasteland 4: the story of Joe Blow" could be a great RPG. (I could do without the 4 as it wouldn't be a "true sequel", but I won't quibble about it.) I love the Witcher series too.

BUT. For a party-based game that ostensibly does let you make your own characters, it is poison to gate that ability behind a forced march with premade PCs. Compelling players to get halfway through Bard's Tale IV before they can make their own characters was a big mistake and I'm not aware of a single player who is actively happy about it. At best, they used the premade characters anyway so they had no dog in the race.

(Sidebar: although I do love the Witcher and this type of game can be great, I don't think inXile should invest in this path. To be blunt, I have no reason to trust them to come up with a character as charismatic as Geralt of Rivia. Remember that whoever the protagonist is, in a game like this we are stuck with them for dozens of hours! If I don't like Joe Blow, the game sucks (cf. Fallout 4). Much better for the devs to give robust creation tools and let me build my own protagonist(s), who I am guaranteed to enjoy.)
Image
User avatar
Gizmo
Grandmaster
Posts: 3858
Joined: March 6th, 2012, 6:25 am

Re: PLAYER-CREATED CHARACTERS ARE HUGELY IMPORTANT.

Post by Gizmo »

Woolfe wrote: October 11th, 2018, 12:09 am No one is saying it couldn't be good. We are saying that for us, the Player created characters is something we loved, and want. You can create Dev Created characters if you want, but don't force us to make use of them, even if it is only for an arbitrary amount of time (See BT4)
For my part, I have zero problems with this, and would equally accept (without reservations) the ability to make my own PC, or to be assigned prefabricated PCs. The point is simply to roleplay, and one gets a role either way. Image

*Arguably the assigned roles have the potential to be better integrated into the story, since the developers know exactly who they are dealing with, and don't have to guess. (IE. Geralt of Rivia vs. some random prisoner just released, with no past, or past acquaintances.)

** It is very interesting (and telling) to me that a good many Grimrock mods feature a pre-designed party for storytelling reasons; this is even though the game does not natively support this (though it does come with a set of default PCs). I have scripted the functionality (to enable this) for others in the past, who wanted to start the player off with their planned protagonist, and ease them into a controlling a full party as they rescue or encounter their other pre-defined characters.

*** That's not to say that I think WL3 should do this. The WL series, as well as the Bard's Tale(s), and even the SSI Gold Box games, should all, and only feature a player made party——or use of the default party... Not a slow doling out of the PCs (like the mods that I've mentioned. Those were mods that radically altered the expected gameplay, not official sequels... that of course, should not.)
User avatar
Gillsing
Explorer
Posts: 296
Joined: May 22nd, 2012, 1:35 pm

Re: PLAYER-CREATED CHARACTERS ARE HUGELY IMPORTANT.

Post by Gillsing »

Zombra wrote: October 11th, 2018, 12:14 pm ... although I do love the Witcher and this type of game can be great, I don't think inXile should invest in this path. To be blunt, I have no reason to trust them to come up with a character as charismatic as Geralt of Rivia.
I only played the first part of The Witcher 1, and I don't recall Geralt being particularly charismatic. Sure, the women all seemed to think he was quite charismatic, but I found him rather boring. Now, the bard in The Bard's Tale (2004), that was a funny guy. So I guess I have reason to trust inXile to come up with charismatic characters. Haven't played The Bard's Tale IV though. Maybe their recent track record for charismatic characters isn't that great?
vyvexthorne
Acolyte
Posts: 86
Joined: August 8th, 2012, 7:06 pm

Re: PLAYER-CREATED CHARACTERS ARE HUGELY IMPORTANT.

Post by vyvexthorne »

Definitely agree that player created characters are the way to go.. Even in games like baldur's gate it's fun to sometimes just ignore companions and run through with a full party you created yourself.

Also, if they are going to be putting the game out on console and if they are having character portraits again, they need to make a crap load more portraits. On pc we can easily mod in whatever portraits we want. Console you get 9 portraits for each sex and half of them are used by other characters in the game. "Oh, hello twin me...How embarrassing, we're wearing the same outfits as well."
User avatar
Highwayman667
Acolyte
Posts: 85
Joined: October 4th, 2018, 12:49 pm

Re: PLAYER-CREATED CHARACTERS ARE HUGELY IMPORTANT.

Post by Highwayman667 »

vyvexthorne wrote: March 17th, 2019, 10:54 pmAlso, if they are going to be putting the game out on console and if they are having character portraits again, they need to make a crap load more portraits.
Oh you'll get your portraits... AS DLC :lol:
User avatar
Gizmo
Grandmaster
Posts: 3858
Joined: March 6th, 2012, 6:25 am

Re: PLAYER-CREATED CHARACTERS ARE HUGELY IMPORTANT.

Post by Gizmo »

I would prefer the game support importing TGA images. Also that it retain the ability to snapshot the player model to create a portrait, as seen in WL2.

An interesting option could be to have a portrait application (either baked into the game, or separate) that would accept an image, and produce all of the necessary GUI assets from it. The second and third Neverwinter Nights games [from Bioware & Obsidian respectively] required five versions of the character portrait for the GUI. It would have been nice to have things automated, and derive the other four from the highest quality image.
User avatar
Highwayman667
Acolyte
Posts: 85
Joined: October 4th, 2018, 12:49 pm

Re: PLAYER-CREATED CHARACTERS ARE HUGELY IMPORTANT.

Post by Highwayman667 »

Gizmo wrote: March 25th, 2019, 4:15 amI would prefer the game support importing TGA images. Also that it retain the ability to snapshot the player model to create a portrait, as seen in WL2.
I think it's important to ask developers to provide as many portraits as the art design team can possibly crank out. I always thought it was a cop out to offer the ability to screenshot your character when a hand-drawn portrait will always look much better; to my aesthetic standards at least.
Gizmo wrote: March 25th, 2019, 4:15 amAn interesting option could be to have a portrait application (either baked into the game, or separate) that would accept an image, and produce all of the necessary GUI assets from it. The second and third Neverwinter Nights games [from Bioware & Obsidian respectively] required five versions of the character portrait for the GUI. It would have been nice to have things automated, and derive the other four from the highest quality image.
Or this, the community could handle that workload if necessary.
User avatar
fuzzyballs01
Scholar
Posts: 108
Joined: April 4th, 2017, 9:56 am

Re: PLAYER-CREATED CHARACTERS ARE HUGELY IMPORTANT.

Post by fuzzyballs01 »

dude, honestly, there have been so many post apocalytic games out there, and people made portrait packs for those,if you want more that vanilla, you can easily find them. I'm fine with the bare minimum, I'm not going to be using them anyways.
And the way W2 looked, you didn't want a portrait of your model when other characters get actual art, but at the very least create different portraits for every named character, even if some of them just have a differenly coloured jacket on
Always thought it was weird to describe a character and give them a picture that doesn't look like that.

but if W3 actually looks good, I'd take player model portraits for everyone, but if you only have like 4 faces total for adult males? no thanks, give me pretty pictures instead
User avatar
Gizmo
Grandmaster
Posts: 3858
Joined: March 6th, 2012, 6:25 am

Re: PLAYER-CREATED CHARACTERS ARE HUGELY IMPORTANT.

Post by Gizmo »

fuzzyballs01 wrote: April 24th, 2019, 7:35 am And the way W2 looked, you didn't want a portrait of your model when other characters get actual art, but at the very least create different portraits for every named character, even if some of them just have a differenly coloured jacket on
Image

These were my Rangers. I was fine with (even grateful for) the snapshot feature.
User avatar
fuzzyballs01
Scholar
Posts: 108
Joined: April 4th, 2017, 9:56 am

Re: PLAYER-CREATED CHARACTERS ARE HUGELY IMPORTANT.

Post by fuzzyballs01 »

I think we played two different games then, the only time I tried it came out looking worse than FF VII
noglasseshanningan
Initiate
Posts: 7
Joined: October 17th, 2018, 5:33 pm

Re: Player-Created Characters Are HUGELY Important.

Post by noglasseshanningan »

I prefer the pre made characters in InXile games. The Inxile vibe is mainly why I buy their games and the pre made characters are very important to my experience. But I hope they have both options so everyone is happy.
Zagluk
Initiate
Posts: 2
Joined: March 18th, 2020, 6:44 am

Re: Player-Created Characters Are HUGELY Important.

Post by Zagluk »

I like the Background of (N)SC, and i like to hire a character due to the background, i like the interaction with premade characters, their storylines.
But often, i have trained one of my people in a skill / role, and the (N)SC is a worse match to the Player created character. Or the skills doesn't fit to my playstyle, or are already covered, and doesn't provide any usefull addition. But i prefere to take this char with me, because i like the story

Why not allowing the player during the hiring, to change/assign Attributes/Skills, but keep the story backgrounds.
Or assign each player made character beside the Main character a NSC background.

Divine Divinity allowed that (you could even respec them completly)

Playing a game like Wasteland, the most fun is discovery, but if you find out, i was a complete fould when creating the charaters, they are now level 10 and they suck in combat, instead of completly start over with the new insights how to build efficient characters, you could continue with a respec.

(Respec could even be a difficulty setting)

Then you can have both worlds, efficient characters that fit into personal playstyle and party generation, and in depth characters with a background.
User avatar
Gizmo
Grandmaster
Posts: 3858
Joined: March 6th, 2012, 6:25 am

Re: Player-Created Characters Are HUGELY Important.

Post by Gizmo »

I have a suggestion for any portrait snapshot feature. If it is a built-in feature like WL2 (especially), then have the option of layered output. Have the game write the screen elements either on separate layers of the same file, or export them as separate files; could be multiple PNGs.

The reason of course, is that users would have a separate background image, and one or more layered character images with which to edit their own portraits.

https://docs.unrealengine.com/en-US/Eng ... index.html

I remember when I played the Shadowrun games, I updated my character's illustrated portrait as their cybernetics became more and more a part of them.
Hraesvelgr
Initiate
Posts: 8
Joined: February 24th, 2020, 3:46 pm

Re: PLAYER-CREATED CHARACTERS ARE HUGELY IMPORTANT.

Post by Hraesvelgr »

Gizmo wrote: April 24th, 2019, 2:39 pm
fuzzyballs01 wrote: April 24th, 2019, 7:35 am And the way W2 looked, you didn't want a portrait of your model when other characters get actual art, but at the very least create different portraits for every named character, even if some of them just have a differenly coloured jacket on
Image

These were my Rangers. I was fine with (even grateful for) the snapshot feature.
How did I not know you could do this. I went through the trouble of downloading portraits that were 'close enough' to my characters :lol:
User avatar
Gizmo
Grandmaster
Posts: 3858
Joined: March 6th, 2012, 6:25 am

Re: Player-Created Characters Are HUGELY Important.

Post by Gizmo »

Finally! Someone else who sees! 8-)
Post Reply

Return to “Wasteland 3: General Discussion”