WL3 Ideas, rebalancing , skills, CLASSIC

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goatKINGkoza
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WL3 Ideas, rebalancing , skills, CLASSIC

Post by goatKINGkoza » July 26th, 2018, 10:14 pm

Loved Wasteland 2. The rebalancing in the Directors cut was well done well, but not perfect. Hopefully these suggestions aren't too late to be put into the game or rather just fun enough to talk about.

The CLASSIC system was functional but people tended to have dump stats. Luck was one stat that was ho hum, has there anything been done to improve it?

The skills also were a bit decisive for ranged combat. Rifles and snipers was best, energy weapons were best late game. Pistols were functional early, but lack of range was bad overall, shotguns were ok in groups, and heavy weapons were ok as well. What could we do to improve? Combine the ranged weapons together. Make a marksmanship skill.

But you can't have marksmanship be the all or nothing stat, otherwise builds would dump all points into it. To try and fix this, your CLASSIC stats will effect each different class of ranged weapon.

For example, not concrete just outlined:
Chance to hit,
Pistol: is 50% your marksman skill, 25% co ordination, 25% Perception (minus distance and defences from enemies of course)
Rifle: 40% Mrks, 20% Strength, 20% Co ordination, 20% perception
Heavy: 40%Mrks, 30%Srength, ect. ect.

Or maybe have a strength or perception requirement for certain weapons. Negative effects otherwise. That sniper rifle? Need a perception of 8 or -40 to hit. That heavy machine gun? You can't hold it comfortably without a STR of 6, -20% for you. Even reward bonuses, Hank with a STR of 10 can easily hold the Heavy Machine Gun and gets a bonus to hit.

Also the damage was a bit off don't you think? Are pistols that weak in real life from one brand to another? I'm no gun expert, but could a man wearing a bullet proof vest really take ten shots in the chest with a 9mm from twenty feet away and be ok? I understand the balance between realism and fun is blurred by video games, but I'd like it to lean a little more to the realism side.

Melee combat seemed fun, but is situational. If you add a grapple or disarm mechanic, melee would become more interesting. Giant raider charges you from ten feet and before you get a shot off from your hunting rifle, he grabs your rifle with both hands now it's a struggling match. Do you, let go the gun and quickly slice with a knife in your boot? Struggle against his strength? Maybe quickly pull your pistols and shoot him in the gut. Finally a good use for pistols.

Also healing in the game was weird, can't sleep or rest to heal? Medkits were the only way eh? This makes bartering more valuable than the medicine or doctoring skill. You can make things more interesting but having permanent injuries only healed by doctoring/surgeon skill. Broken finger, dislocated shoulder, should be curable with the right doctor and a set amount of time. Or even better have stats change for the positive after a while with a disability. Sure you lost and eye and have a permanent -3 perception but after a couple weeks in game time, you've learned how to adapt with no depth perception and feel bad situations better than others + 3 to intimidation and +3 to initiative.

I'm really passionate about this game and I'm throwing a few things out there hopefully not in too much of a jumbled mess. Thoughts suggestions comments? Come at me bro.

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Grohal
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Re: WL3 Ideas, rebalancing , skills, CLASSIC

Post by Grohal » July 30th, 2018, 12:49 am

Not really a fan of taking down the number of different skills as it was already low compared to WL1.

Imo we need more skills not less, but your marksman skill could be added as an extra skill to the Chance to hit with all ranged weapons in combat. Pistol, Assault Rifle and so on should reflect more the maintance ability, making the weapon less likely to jam in combat and if it jams cleaning that - the highter the skill, the faster.

A pistol should have highest to hit chance under 10 meters (roughly), while a rifle is to bulky in close combat. The calibre should have Impact to the damage as well as the distance and the weapon fired. It could be even better/more varied with different ammo types, like armor piercing bullets. I should be "forced" to switch ammo/weapons for the best results against a dog vs. a heavily plated human for example. And mixed enemy groups (heavily plated humans WITH dogs) would make the fights even more interesting, as I would be "forced" to use that ranger with the shotgun against the dogs, and the other with the pistol with AP ammunition against the plated men.

The fights, especially the random Encounters, really should be more interesting than in WL2, they became quite a nuisance with the time.

And please, InXile, whatever you do: Don't make the BT4 "mistake" by removing random encounters.
Hell is no place, hell is a condition.

goatKINGkoza
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Re: WL3 Ideas, rebalancing , skills, CLASSIC

Post by goatKINGkoza » July 30th, 2018, 3:50 pm

>Not really a fan of taking down the number of different skills as it was already low compared to WL1.

That can be a problem sure, maybe make more skills in different categories. To me, if you know how to aim one pistol you know how to aim with a rifle. Once you get into long distance, you need to account for drop of bullet and wind, so maybe another skill with long distance shots? Scoped shots?

I just don't like spending so many points into so many skills just to be considered a good shot. In game if I make a great rifle bound marksman, it doesn't make sense he can't shoot a pistol if he hasn't spent any points into it.

I like the marksmanship skill and then having your physical prowess define how well you could shoot with them. Have a 3 strength? Can only shoot a pistol with two hands properly. Have 8 STR? Shoot pistols one in each hand.

>Pistol, Assault Rifle and so on should reflect more the maintance ability, making the weapon less likely to jam in combat and if it jams cleaning that - the highter the skill, the faster.

Pistols are fairly easy mechanical devices, not too much different from rifles, other than longer barrels, different loading mechanisms, gas powered or spring loading for semi's. I think the mechanical ability covers most of that. I think the science skill should be used for making ammo and repairing some heavy weapons, rockets and such. Definitely use science for repairing plasma weapons.

>A pistol should have highest to hit chance under 10 meters (roughly), while a rifle is to bulky in close combat. The calibre should have Impact to the damage as well as the distance and the weapon fired. It could be even better/more varied with different ammo types, like armor piercing bullets. I should be "forced" to switch ammo/weapons for the best results against a dog vs. a heavily plated human for example. And mixed enemy groups (heavily plated humans WITH dogs) would make the fights even more interesting, as I would be "forced" to use that ranger with the shotgun against the dogs, and the other with the pistol with AP ammunition against the plated men.

I agree with this, this adds depth to combat and another layer of problem solving between inventory management and preparing.

The dog idea is a great idea overall, more creatures to defend from making smaller use weapons more viable.

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Gillsing
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Re: WL3 Ideas, rebalancing , skills, CLASSIC

Post by Gillsing » November 20th, 2018, 2:19 am

goatKINGkoza wrote:
July 26th, 2018, 10:14 pm
Melee combat seemed fun, but is situational.
I have two Rangers who are pretty good at turning most situations into melee situations. One is Twitchy with Speed 10 and can close the distance quickly enough, and can often get a second turn before the target gets to react, which means an entire turn of attacks with a 2-3 AP blade. The other is Thick-Skinned and can walk slowly towards the enemy in a hail of bullets, not taking any damage at all. So I don't need any fancy melee rules for grappling and such. Creating complexity with simple rules seem preferable to just making more complicated and detailed rules that the NPCs then need to be programmed to use to their best effect.

goatKINGkoza wrote:
July 26th, 2018, 10:14 pm
Also healing in the game was weird, can't sleep or rest to heal? Medkits were the only way eh? This makes bartering more valuable than the medicine or doctoring skill.
No, max Barter only gives you a 10% discount when buying medical supplies, while Field Medic can more than double the amount of Con each medic pack heals. And if you do the math, +100% effect is more valuable than 10% discount. A lot more. Not to mention that you find quite a few medic packs, and need the Field Medic skill to even use them. The only thing Barter is really good for is never-ending profits when trading back and forth at Gorkinovich's Distillery, after getting both of the discounts there. Now, you could make that out to be unlimited %, thereby beating the 100%+ from the Field Medic skill. But that's a lot of boring clicking and surely abusing an oversight on part of the developers. And even without that I have more medic packs than I ever need, as you can just heal the entire team at a doctor for free, or for 20 scrap. No need for nationalized health care with such low prices!

But it would be pretty cool if Wasteland 3 managed to make the Barter skill worth the skill point investment. Trade Routes of the Cloud Nebula... Mountains! Mercantile Rangers, report your quarterly earnings! Yeah, I guess only huge deals would make that skill worth the cost. Even if max level would bring vendor prices down to what they pay when you sell items to them I suppose that's still not a whole lot of scrap with no important and ongoing money sinks. Maybe that's what base building could supply?

Araton
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Re: WL3 Ideas, rebalancing , skills, CLASSIC

Post by Araton » November 20th, 2018, 4:22 am

"Pistols were functional early, but lack of range was bad overall"

"Also the damage was a bit off don't you think? Are pistols that weak in real life from one brand to another? I'm no gun expert, but could a man wearing a bullet proof vest really take ten shots in the chest with a 9mm from twenty feet away and be ok? I understand the balance between realism and fun is blurred by video games, but I'd like it to lean a little more to the realism side."

I'm really hoping for an end game ability to dual-wield pistols. This way their firepower could be doubled.
Another endgame ability would allow you to decrease AP costs for shooting and another one for reloading pistols. Lastly another optional skill, concealed carry, that would give pistol carriers the ability to increase their alertness when starting a fight. This way pistol damage output could be kept low (for those who want realism in a video game), but the weapon type could still be useful.

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