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Energy Weapons

Posted: July 8th, 2018, 3:14 pm
by draxdeveloper
So, i saw another discussion about energy weapons saying that not all energy weapons are based on electricity. And i agree with this, so to me would be nice to have another solution: More damage types with armor having resistance/weakness like: plasma, laser, electricity, ballistic, fire (maybe ice? I would love a ice gun). And maybe cutting, blunting piercing (maybe). Different damage types can have chances to apply status (even if it's a small one).
This would be a more realistic approach... And don't need to have all those types, plasma can be similar to laser.
Now, i know that you probably have made all important game design decisions, but here is something that always bothered me, the energy weapons skill.
Not just in wasteland, but in games like fallout, the thing is, we have skills like one handed weapons and two handed weapons inf fallout or more detailed like shotguns,sniper,assault rifle, etc... In WL2. in both cases we are talking about weapon handling (don't know a better word for that). Now, in energy weapons we have energy weapons that are like pistols, sniper rifles and assault rifles (and in some game we even have heavy energy weapons).
But don't matter the way you handle the energy weapon, you always use just one skill.
Now, i don't know a good and elegant way to solve this, but here is a thought, i call this grid weapon system.
Weapons have two skills associated with it: Handling skill (like being a shotgun, a sniper rifle) and tech or source skill (like being a high tech energy weapon or a ballistic weapon)
The main issue with this system is that you would have to account two skills for a weapon, this is harder to balance (but maybe you can make each of then count as half skill in cost and efficiency, or maybe it would have different applications to the weapon)
In the case of WL3, we would have 2 weapon tech skills: ballistic and energy (or high tech)

Re: Energy Weapons

Posted: July 13th, 2018, 12:37 am
by Mole204
I always got the rifle type weapons mixed up with the energy weapon, because there are always energy weapons that should qualify for more than one category. Was the skills points adjustable downwards or am I remembering something else? It was good that it had that, if it had that. :P

I'm hoping for a few different energy weapons. One apex, like the plasma rifle was in WL2, and a few bizarre ones. Of course the Nancies are going to have a Regan RayGun, right? Ronald Raygun? President RayGun? Whatever, it's Project Morningstar's problem.
Not to mention the text entries. You blast the raider into quarkian gravel. You send the Mailed Wolf's torso into subatomic distress. You heat the Threshing Crawler into muon jelly.

Re: Energy Weapons

Posted: July 19th, 2018, 4:49 pm
by Carib
I would like to see the plasma rifle from the Terminator movies.Image

Re: Energy Weapons

Posted: July 20th, 2018, 5:39 am
by sear
Carib wrote: July 19th, 2018, 4:49 pm I would like to see the plasma rifle from the Terminator movies.Image
I definitely didn't just forward that to the guy who's making our weapons right now.

Re: Energy Weapons

Posted: July 26th, 2018, 12:05 am
by Mole204
The "Westinghouse Plasma Bullpup"'s main draw is the zappy FX bolts, which were very cool on the big screen. There's that divide again between "cool weapon effects" and "we don't need ANY weapon effects, switch it off and shave more time off the total combat time."
At it's core, an energy weapon is a way of turning electricity into bullets. To sci-fi plasma (which is a real thing, look it up) is just something to crumple up and shoot at people- or robots. I hope wl3 has a proper shootout against some boxy '50s robots. Why use energy weapons on meat-enemies, after all? And that's not taking into consideration wl2's "the best anti-energy armor is bare skin" mixup.
If we ever get enough publicly-available parts, people are just going to start making Ghostbuster proton packs out of backpacks and vacuum cleaners.
The biggest problem with a game having plenty of energy weapons is that the player is going to have only three categories: the one I need, the one I got, and everything else which is junk items. I wonder if there's going to be stock items, or unique items to be found in the Patriarch's Vaults?
"We're being shot at! Take cover!"
"We have energy weapons! Let's attack!"
"I don't think you can pistol-whip him with your unloaded Buck Rogers replica ray-gun from here."
One you look closely at the Bullpup, you start seeing all the bits and pieces that the props people threw together for it. ... Bchart.jpg
An astronaut capable of employing Kraut Space Magic, understands more than you could possible know.

Re: Energy Weapons

Posted: August 5th, 2018, 9:43 pm
by unkle

Re: Energy Weapons

Posted: October 5th, 2018, 3:17 pm
by Highwayman667
I don't know how excited I can be about energy weapons in WL3. They were dull as fuck in WL2 and rather ineffective.

At least heavy weapons fell good and tore the enemies apart.

Re: Energy Weapons

Posted: October 5th, 2018, 3:36 pm
by Drool
Largely because everyone insisted on every weapon class being viable throughout the game. I'd far prefer WL1's more linear progression.

Re: Energy Weapons

Posted: October 5th, 2018, 9:30 pm
by Ranger Ghost
I really don't like the "two skills for a weapon" idea, please no.

It will be Assault Rifles for everyone, as usual. :twisted:

Re: Energy Weapons

Posted: October 23rd, 2018, 12:22 pm
by Mousey
No starting energy weapons. The only items initially started/found/sold should be apocalyptic wasteland weapons: zip gun, pipe rifle, board with nails in it, bat wrapped in barbed wire, pipe, etc. NOT energy weapons. Leave energy weapons for late in the game, and they use the appropriate weapon skills: E.g., the top tier blade weapon is the Proton ax and it uses the bladed weapons skill. The top tier blunt weapon is the plasma hammer, and it uses the blunt weapons skill. The top tier pistol is maybe the gauss pistol or laser handgun, blaster handgun, and they use the handgun skill. The top tier sniper rifle is maybe the gauss rifle, laser rifle, black ray rifle, or such, and it use the sniper rifle skill. The top tier shotgun could be an energy gun that fires in a cone. Instead of a single/burst toggle mode, it has a ray (0º ray) to a cone (30º cone).

Energy weapons. Chemical, magnetic/gauss, laser, plasma, meson, proton, (etc) weapons should be in the same weapon categories of their base weapon (handguns, SMG, assault rifle, sniper rifle, heavy weapons). But be the high-end weapon of that skill. So you may have ‘handguns’ as a weapon skill, firing revolvers and autopistols. Then one day find a gauss pistol. Great! Later you find a laser handgun (which also uses the handgun skill). Great. [Which makes no noise and has a longer range and less AP required to fire it (quicker recovery time) and has a total bonus to hit or just easier to hit at range.]

Or maybe split the energy guns, where the laser/plasma/proton/neutron guns go with the base weapon skill categories (handguns, sniper rifles, etc) and still have a energy weapon, but change the name of ‘energy weapons’ (because they currently don’t include energy weapons like the proton ax and plasma hammer) to ‘meson guns’, which would look bizarre/alien and work on different principles (conductivity). Then all other energy weapons would be under the appropriate group. Otherwise you’d need synergistic skill bonuses. It makes no sense that you can be a great pistol shooter (maybe able to shoot a foe in the head) and yet can’t aim or hit someone with a more accurate laser pistol.

Also, if you disagree with me, at least… since ‘energy weapons’ are all guns, the skill should be called ‘energy guns’ since it doesn’t include melee energy weapons (E.g., Proton ax, plasma hammer. Then add a ‘Gamma Gauntlet’ for an energy brawling weapon. Then add a plasma grenade, energy shotgun (just has a wide beam mode/toggle instead of a burst mode), and reusable energy throwing items (energy darts, Photon Frisbee, Atomic Aerobe, Boson Boomerang, solar chakram, etc.), etc.). Throwing IS a skill, more so than the difference between a pistol and a (energy) pistol. I remember in my high school physics class where we went out to the football field and threw baseballs across the field. Once from a stand still, and once from a running throw. The senior baseball pitcher threw his baseball probably past 80 yards and the rest of us had trouble throwing it past 60 yards. I don’t think any of the girls threw it past 50 yards. We had one massive boy who was easily the strongest, but he couldn’t throw the baseball as fast/far as the baseball pitcher. Coordination and strength should modify/increase the range, but so should throwing skill. Maybe +0.4 meters per combined points of strength, coordination, and skill level. So, if have 4str, 4coo, 4 skill, get +5 meters/hexes. But if have 6str, 7coo, 10 skill, get a bonus +9 meters/hexes.

BTW: Maybe have a dart grenade to have a grenade that throws farther. Maybe with a H.E.A.T. tip to defeat armor. It also seems odd that grenades have a 10 Armor Penetration, yet missile launchers & RPG, which hold a larger explosive and possibly has a H.E.A.T. tip.

Different damage label method. Since the energy weapons skill no longer has the split between armor (I.e., it was changed to ‘conductive’ vs. ‘non-conductive’) you could list the damage written as: A) the non-conductive value then the conductive multiplier in parenthesis. E.g.: “12 (x4)”. B) Or the reverse of A. E.g.: “50 (x 0.2)”. C) Or list the calculations out. E.g.: so a 20 damage gun with a (x0.5/x 2.5) would say: “10/50” D) Or something new. Maybe reacts exactly like a regular gun/pistol/SMG/sniper rifle, heavy weapon, but if a target’s armor is ‘Conductive’ it either ignores armor, or it does bonus damage, or it does a bonus (burns?) effect, or it does an EMP effect against computers/robots. Maybe include some techno-babble saying that the energy beam has a UV laser and exotic particles in it; and that the UV laser causes a photovoltaic effect, causing free-floating electrons to scatter out of atoms (as in solar cells), the exotic particles also cause elements to shed their electrons, but to repel from the exotic particles (into the target), and the sudden voltage increase creates a magnetic field in conductive materials which is harmful to electronics (like an EMP blast).

Particular energy weapons. I’d personally prefer a ‘particular’ (Meson?) energy weapon works awesome vs. ‘robots (like the pulse rifle from the FO games). While another ‘particular’ energy gun/grenade works awesome vs. ORGANIC targets (I.e., Death Ray). I’m guessing that a death ray is just something that irradiates someone. It projects neutrons and protons, which turn matter into an isotope… which is almost always radioactive. Could be a type of neutron projector like the name of the energy weapon. BTW: how does someone project neutrons, if they have no polarity? I could see robots with death rays. Maybe death rays are useless vs. robots. Maybe pulse rifles are useless vs. organic targets. Maybe a pulse shotgun cone could hit your other characters and cause no harm, but does harm any robots in that cone. Then other energy weapons (lasers, plasma, proton ax, etc) are just the top tier of each weapon category: The top handgun may be a long-range gauss or laser handgun; and uses the handgun skill. The top tier sniper rifle may be a Mark VII blaster rifle, and use the sniper rifle skill.
Therefore lasers are still lasers, plasma is still plasma, etc. It's only the odd/peculiar energy particle weapons that act odd/peculiar.

Gauss guns. I would like to bring gauss weapons to WL3. But are they energy weapons or regular guns? Wouldn’t make sense if they did more damage to conductive targets. Gauss guns have an appeal and flavor. You can go to YouTube and see some gauss guns tinkers have made today. If we can make (admittedly lame) gauss guns today, then they’d be more likely be made for WL games than Meson cannon, and such.

Multiple shoot modes. An energy gun (laser, plasma, death ray, EM pulse, Meson, etc) might have two modes – not single shot and burst mode, but (0º) ray and (30º) cone. Different energy guns will offer different cone angles. Maybe (for flavor) the cone mode has a worse range (and penetration if not Meson) but a better chance to hit. Maybe some have a pulse (=single shot) and ray (=fully automatic and use more charges to do), or called ‘stream’ or ‘multi-pulse’ for some energy guns.

EMP energy guns. FO:T had pulse guns, EMP shotgun shells, pulse grenades, that worked differently than other energy guns (E.g., lasers and plasma). IIRC: lasers had a long range but didn’t work well against metal targets. While plasma worked well against everything but had a lame-ish range. Sounds fun to me.

Re: Energy Weapons

Posted: July 6th, 2019, 1:40 pm
by Mousey
I’ve mentioned this idea before (a few years ago) on the WL2 forum, but I didn’t get a response from anyone (perhaps everyone already thought about this idea).


SKILL........... Examples of each top tier’s energy weapon:
Blunt...............Plasma hammer
Bladed.............Proton ax
Brawling...........Gamma gauntlet
Handguns..........Mark VII blaster pistol, phase blaster, laser pistol
Sub machinegun..Gamma ray blaster
Shotgun............Plasma Cone rifle
Assault rifle.......Laser carbine, pulse rifle, Ion beamer, Gauss rifle
Sniper rifle........Gauss rifle, death ray rifle
Heavy weapons...Xenon cannon, meson cannon, photon cannon, plasma caster

Admittedly the melee energy weapons ALREADY use the skill they are associated with; I just think that it should be this way for the rest of the weapon categories. Therefore I believe that the PROTON ax and the PLASMA rifle are both basically energy weapons that don’t use the Energy Weapons skill to use. So why not have it this way for all energy weapons?

POINT BLANK RANGE. You know how you get a point blank range to hit penalty for long arms? (Assault rifles, machine guns, and sniper rifle). Well it was guessed (in these forums) that it is because long rifles can be long and can be grabbed. But this can’t be the reason because: 1) It occurs even if you shoot someone in the back in a surprise attack, 2) Goes out to eight meters in some rifles, 3) It isn’t carried over to long energy rifles. E.g., the Death Ray rifle is a long sniper rifle that fires a laser-like ray, and 4) Pistols and SMG have a BONUS to hit in point blank range, yet a laser pistol doesn’t get that bonus to hit. Why?

PLASMA CONE RIFLE. The shotgun energy rifle ‘Cone rifle’ (which needs a better name) would be an energy weapon with a wide beam (like the Star Trek phaser when they say: “set phasers to wide spread.’ It would only be ‘single shot’, but when you click the ‘mode’ button you change the spread angle. Maybe there would be a unique version of it that can shoot in a straight beam out to a longer range. Maybe as you click on the ‘mode’ button you make it wider. So it might have a drawing of a straight line, to fire a narrow cone), then you click the ‘mode’ button to change it to a narrow cone to fire a narrow cone (15º?), click again and the ‘mode’ icon changes to a wider-angle drawing (30º?), click again and the mode icon becomes a wider-angle drawing (45º?). When you fire it, the cones change angle but the wider the angle, the shorter the range and the less damage it does.

DEATH RAYS. As another piece of weirdness, perhaps have some energy weapons that are better versus living things (E.g., the Death Ray rifle) and also some energy weapons that are better vs. robots (E.g., EMP gun).

FLAME THROWERS. Bring back flamethrowers. Flamethrowers are fun; and they always look fun in the movies. The top energy weapon version of a Heavy Weapon flamethrower might be a similar-ranged plasma projector. Or they both could be ‘under barrel’ add-ons for rifles.

UNDER-BARREL ADD-ONS. Add to the game under-barrel add-ons (like the under-barrel laser site) such as: grenade launcher, flamethrower (think Aliens 2 movie), mini-chainsaw (like the ripper from Fallout games), mini sawed off shotgun, flashlight (but that works in dark), bayonet, and such.

SKILLS. If people are bothered by removing a skill (energy weapons), there are a lot of skills that the game can add. E.g., pick pockets (and plant item onto someone), climbing, swimming, throwing, running (mods current speed score?), etc.

STARTING WEAPONS. I think it’s odd that currently all (except the energy for the energy weapons character) could potentially start with (or should start with) terrible jamming weapons, yet one character starts with a clean high-tech energy pistol, (the phase blaster) that can’t jam at all. Actually, I’d have the characters start with even lamer weapons; like the ‘Rust Bucket’, pipe rifle, zip pistol, sap glove, wrench, pipe, shiv, wooden pole, stick, axe handle, rebar staff, rebar knuckles, sledge hammer, barbed wire bat, nail board, pipe, etc.), and no one starts out with energy weapons at all. Therefore energy weapons should be the top tier culmination of knowledge and effort.
When you start out with free weapons, then they should all be crap. You get what you paid for. I remember playing the beginning of Fallout 2 with a spear, and then getting the pipe rifle, and how I felt relieved, and excited. (Ha!) Then later I got the .44 magnum revolver, and I was feeling powerful (“Those salamanders don’t stand a chance!”). (Ha!)

Or maybe you should have energy weapons as mostly unique weapons with unique names: E.g., Final assessment, WORP blaster, Herbicide, Gamma Ray Blaster, Xenon Cannon, Vindicator, Vengeance, Despoiler, Discombobulater, etc.

Re: Energy Weapons

Posted: July 6th, 2019, 1:58 pm
by Drool
The poor execution of energy weapons in WL2 was a result of trying to follow two different, incompatible, ideals. They wanted to keep the feel of the original (energy weapons being the most powerful) but they also decided that every class of weapon was required to be viable throughout the game.

The rallying cry of "I want my Ranger to be unique!" mandated that your end-game Rangers weren't identically kitted. Instead of moving from pistol to SMG to rifle to assault rifle to energy weapons like in the original, they wanted to keep pistols just as viable as assault rifles. This, of course, required that energy weapons be given their own class of weapons to march through just like all the others. But since they mirrored all the other weapons in a way, they needed something to make them stand out, hence the bonkers mechanics.

Of course, the terrible balancing meant that everything was a poor cousin to the Assault Rifle, but that's another issue entirely.

Personally, I think they should go back to the original for both the MSPE mechanics and for how weapons work. They won't, because they're too invested in SPECIAL... er... SPLICES... um... CLASSIC.

Re: Energy Weapons

Posted: July 9th, 2019, 1:41 am
by Grohal
Drool wrote: July 6th, 2019, 1:58 pm ...

Personally, I think they should go back to the original for both the MSPE mechanics and for how weapons work. They won't, because they're too invested in SPECIAL... er... SPLICES... um... CLASSIC.
Agreed. Now would be too late, hopefully they come around sometime in the future for other games in the WL Setting.