Mole204's Wasteland 3 Construction Checklist

Discussion about the upcoming Wasteland 3!

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Re: Mole204's Wasteland 3 Construction Checklist

Post by Mole204 »

"Machines built for programmers are usually different from the ones owned by the public." Please define these differences.
"Expense accounts." In some cases, "adequate knowledge", and "user service parts". Yes, that includes the PS and Xbox types.
No it wouldn't. Have you played the original Wasteland? If the enemy cannot cause SERious or worse wounds, they absolutely cannot win. I have had fights that have, literally, taken over an hour to win, but I've won. Reducing the party to UNConscious will not trigger a loss. There is no "grinding".
Not in the term grinding as it currently is, but yes. The party either bleeds to death, or runs out of heals and bullets. It's a matter of strategy, a mix of luck and preparation, of being able to creep away with your lives.
You... you don't actually know what "crowd control" or "bottleneck" means, do you?
I may be using the terms differently then you think of them. I may be using them just to try to explain a crowd fight to you. Large amounts of foes. Fighting 6 or 7 flies is different from fighting 4 or 5 yuppies. Especially when you get to the end of the gamer and never get an alleyway of 20 or 30 Jerks. For most of the game, the party is struggling to survive individual teams of foes. We never get to really test the limits of the monster generator. We don't even get to fight a gag Space Invaders scene against the flies.
I prefer massive turn based battles; bigger the better.
Yes, that! We had those in wl1. And many other of the old fantasy style games.
I guess I'd rather play Dragon Wars instead of "mid game party dies against two nuns" again.


https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Zeerust
"Zeerust: The particular kind of datedness which afflicts things that were originally designed to look futuristic." — The Meaning of Liff

The retro-future look, or zeerust for short, is something from the past that is meant to be equel to the future, but don't quite make it to that point in time.
There is supposed to be a lot of that in Wasteland: the sealed military bunkers, the references to various super-advanced weapons and robots, the computer's killer robots and the technology it has at it's command, crystal walls, the proton ax, etc.
Wasteland 2 has very little zeerust. Most of that is in the like of the namedrop items, the robot enemies, and the plasma rifle.
wl3 has the chance to return to that sort of tape-drive future, what with the Patriarch's Vault, the possibility of sealed sections of NORAD, and the equipment contents of hidden mountain bases.
The Serpoids, in whatever form, would help to play up the idea- in so far as it lasts in Wasteland. Like Darwin and Sleeper Base, every shining white-plastic super-future settlement lasts only so long as it can keep hidden from the various disasters going on. It'd be a good way to have that in and get that idea done. Becasue it's part of Wasteland, it was just overlooked in Wl2. Including radiation dosage charts, and paraphernalia printed in the 80s from books from the 60s. Just as useless as the "duck and cover" drills.
Of course, the architectural styles are supposed to be "the least of your problems" when you're there. If you don't like this idea, remember that I had also said "set it on fire." The Rangers respond like police, in wl2 after all.
I never liked the sweaty-haired biker trash villains, and see them as only cannon fodder. Bring on the thick ring of slicerdicers staying just out of X Village's howitzer range. The food pills delivery must go through. It'd be interesting to find the balance between "I can take them" and "Oh gods this was a mistake."


Wasteland Remastered is coming soon. Opinions?
I'm against the scrapping of the old program to replace it with the fresher looking Poser version, but it's already done.
Wl2 doesn't look like Wasteland. Wasteland 3 doesn't look like Wasteland. And now Wasteland doesn't look like Wasteland.
From a compatibility standpoint, what for? It would have taken less effort to emulator the game for the new hardware.
Yes, it's cleaner, sharper, and more detailed. So what?

Drool, you've taken apart half a dozen vague reference points for being vague. You raise a few good points, and I should go replay WL again to get the names straight, but ... yarg. Not liking the change for change's sake Remastered version.

So, we can't have Serpoids, but what about Zelkors? (then the Serpoids.)

I wonder what's inside the Collector's Edition? It looks like it would have been a perfect place for a little paragraph book.
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Re: Mole204's Wasteland 3 Construction Checklist

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Mole204 wrote: January 19th, 2020, 1:42 amWasteland Remastered is coming soon. Opinions?
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=18944&start=20#p207516
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Re: Mole204's Wasteland 3 Construction Checklist

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Mole204 wrote: January 19th, 2020, 1:42 am"Expense accounts." In some cases, "adequate knowledge", and "user service parts".
Okay, yes, developers are likely to have more expensive computers. I'm not sure what you're getting at with "adequate knowledge" (anyone can acquire knowledge) or "user service parts" (unless you're using a Mac, you have user serviceable parts).
Not in the term grinding as it currently is, but yes. The party either bleeds to death, or runs out of heals and bullets. It's a matter of strategy, a mix of luck and preparation, of being able to creep away with your lives.
Again, have you actually played the original? There are no healing items in Wasteland. And the party can be rendered UNConscious infinite times without dying. If the enemy can't do at least a SERious wound, the party cannot lose. You don't "bleed out" when UNConscious and you don't lose if the entire party is UNConscious.
I may be using the terms differently then you think of them.
I'm using their actual definitions, so...
I may be using them just to try to explain a crowd fight to you. Large amounts of foes. Fighting 6 or 7 flies is different from fighting 4 or 5 yuppies.
Yes. I understand the concept of "a large fight". The point is, the game doesn't give the player adequate crowd control options, so such a thing would be a slog. You can't immobilize a portion of the enemy, or force them to a place where only a fraction can attack. You know. Controlling the crowd.
I guess I'd rather play Dragon Wars instead of "mid game party dies against two nuns" again.
Dragon Wars, like the original Wasteland, was phase based, not turn based. They handled massive battles much better.
Ah. I should have figured.
There is supposed to be a lot of that in Wasteland: the sealed military bunkers, the references to various super-advanced weapons and robots, the computer's killer robots and the technology it has at it's command, crystal walls, the proton ax, etc.
There is some. Wasteland, when it was released, wasn't really retrofuture. It was set in the future, yes, but the divergence from the real world was contemporary. It's an 80's vision of the future told in the 80's. As opposed to Fallout which was a more 50's view of the future told in the 90's.

The only reason Wasteland is retrofuture now is because it's 30 years old.
wl3 has the chance to return to that sort of tape-drive future, what with the Patriarch's Vault, the possibility of sealed sections of NORAD, and the equipment contents of hidden mountain bases.
But Wasteland wasn't a tape-drive future. It had keycards and super-computers. The Wasteland world wasn't using reel-to-reel drives and vacuum tubes. They had transistors.
Including radiation dosage charts
I must have missed those...
Just as useless as the "duck and cover" drills.
That was 50's and 60's, not 80's.
Of course, the architectural styles are supposed to be "the least of your problems" when you're there. If you don't like this idea, remember that I had also said "set it on fire."
Um, what?
The Rangers respond like police, in wl2 after all.
Well... sort of. Much like they sort of did in the original. Felt kind of half-baked.
I never liked the sweaty-haired biker trash villains, and see them as only cannon fodder.
Yet you feel the Jerks are integral to the property.
Bring on the thick ring of slicerdicers staying just out of X Village's howitzer range.
Slicerdicers were the weakest robots in Vegas. I have no idea why inXile decided to make them super powerful.
I'm against the scrapping of the old program to replace it with the fresher looking Poser version, but it's already done.
And how, exactly, would you expect a remaster to be done? Personally, I'm looking forward to a version of Wasteland that doesn't require an emulator to be played.
From a compatibility standpoint, what for? It would have taken less effort to emulator the game for the new hardware.
That already exists: "Wasteland: The Original Classic". It's been out on Steam and GOG for years now.
I should go replay WL again to get the names straight, but ... yarg. Not liking the change for change's sake Remastered version.
The Remaster hasn't been released yet, so I'm not sure why its changes are impacting you. And as for the re-release, every single change can be turned off.
I got a different computer since. (mentioned that a few times)
Cool. What kind of video card does it have?
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Re: Mole204's Wasteland 3 Construction Checklist

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Drool wrote: January 19th, 2020, 1:56 pm(unless you're using a Mac, you have user serviceable parts)
Eh... but for OEM systems, would the home user not [typically] void their warranty for opening the case? :?
(Not something a repair shop would void.)

Edit: Perhaps not; there is this:
https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way ... re-illegal

But this seems rather silly to me, because it's more likely meant to protect the OEM from having to freely repair a machine that the user broke by tinkering with it.

Aside: We live in a sick [corporate hostile] world; I remember when Epson was sued for the existence of cartridge ink reserved for the cleaning cycle, and they actually lost the case. :? The same thing happened to Microsoft with the whole Netscape fiasco; Windows is their own privately owned platform, and they should have been able to integrate their own web browser if they wished, even for free. I'd hate to be an OEM made legally on the hook for repairing whatever damage the user did to the system. Those stickers ensured that the machines were tamper-evident.
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Re: Mole204's Wasteland 3 Construction Checklist

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Gizmo wrote: January 20th, 2020, 2:01 amEh... but for OEM systems, would the home user not [typically] void their warranty for opening the case?
...no? I mean, not unless you're doing goofy stuff like delidding your processor, but if you're doing that, you're not a typical user. But just opening the case doesn't void anything.
The same thing happened to Microsoft with the whole Netscape fiasco
That was anti-trust and over 20 years ago. Has nothing to do with hardware.
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Re: Mole204's Wasteland 3 Construction Checklist

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Drool wrote: January 20th, 2020, 1:32 pm
Gizmo wrote: January 20th, 2020, 2:01 amEh... but for OEM systems, would the home user not [typically] void their warranty for opening the case?
...no? I mean, not unless you're doing goofy stuff like delidding your processor, but if you're doing that, you're not a typical user. But just opening the case doesn't void anything.
From the manufacturer's perspective, they lose control of the hardware's known state, and can no longer guarantee its correct functioning if arbitrary people tinker with it; this includes static electricity damage among the very least; or tool scratches to the motherboard. Like I said, I'd certainly not want to honor a warranty if the end user were legally allowed to tamper with it; 3rd party service technicians would not bother me, as they are not likely to break it. When I the A+ cert, it was implied to me that this was sufficient not to void most warranties in this regard.

It does seem that HP and some other OEMs have since reversed their policy.

As for Microsoft, of course, but that —and about Epson were side points about abusive adjudication.
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Re: Mole204's Wasteland 3 Construction Checklist

Post by Woolfe »

Gizmo wrote: January 20th, 2020, 3:19 pm
Drool wrote: January 20th, 2020, 1:32 pm
Gizmo wrote: January 20th, 2020, 2:01 amEh... but for OEM systems, would the home user not [typically] void their warranty for opening the case?
...no? I mean, not unless you're doing goofy stuff like delidding your processor, but if you're doing that, you're not a typical user. But just opening the case doesn't void anything.
From the manufacturer's perspective, they lose control of the hardware's known state, and can no longer guarantee its correct functioning if arbitrary people tinker with it; this includes static electricity damage among the very least; or tool scratches to the motherboard. Like I said, I'd certainly not want to honor a warranty if the end user were legally allowed to tamper with it; 3rd party service technicians would not bother me, as they are not likely to break it. When I the A+ cert, it was implied to me that this was sufficient not to void most warranties in this regard.

It does seem that HP and some other OEMs have since reversed their policy.

As for Microsoft, of course, but that —and about Epson were side points about abusive adjudication.
I don't know about in the US, but in Australia if you own something you can open it up how you want and providing what you do doesn't cause the fault it is still covered under warranty. Believe me, it's not that hard to tell when something has been broken due to mishandling.
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Re: Mole204's Wasteland 3 Construction Checklist

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Gizmo wrote: January 20th, 2020, 3:19 pmFrom the manufacturer's perspective, they lose control of the hardware's known state, and can no longer guarantee its correct functioning if arbitrary people tinker with it; this includes static electricity damage among the very least; or tool scratches to the motherboard.
Okay? Doesn't mean that opening the case actually voids the warranty.
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Re: Mole204's Wasteland 3 Construction Checklist

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It used to [with good reason], which is why I mentioned it. The stickers covered the screw holes, and sometimes the side panel seams.
You had to damage the sticker to open the case.

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Re: Mole204's Wasteland 3 Construction Checklist

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Gizmo wrote: January 21st, 2020, 10:53 pm It used to [with good reason], which is why I mentioned it. The stickers covered the screw holes, and sometimes the side panel seams.
You had to damage the sticker to open the case.

Image
Actually it didn't, that little "Warranty Void if broken" sticker is potentially illegal even in the US.

https://www.ifixit.com/News/11748/warra ... re-illegal
"Under the 1975 Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, the Feds mandated that you can open your electronics without voiding the warranty, regardless of what the language of your warranty says"

If the little sticker be broken, you warranty is still valid, however it can open you up to attempts to prove that you have done something that has caused the device to break, in which case your warranty would actually be void. Generally however such attempts are difficult to prove if there is no obvious damage. (And in most situations it is pretty obvious if there has been internal tampering).
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Re: Mole204's Wasteland 3 Construction Checklist

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That silliness is a recent development. The act was to protect against deceptive warranties; among later things the blocking of 3rd party repairs [with unofficial parts]. But it now seems that the end user is empowered to tamper with the device if they choose, and still demand—and legally force a company to fix their mess.

I used to work for a guy who would abuse the good will of a certain vacuum manufacturer. Their warranty stated that if it got damaged, they would repair or replace it. So he bought a bunch of them, and he would BUILD a vacuum to send to them, from the damaged parts of all the others he had from all of his restaurants. So they could not just repair the wheel, or broken hose latch (etc...); they had to send him a new machine every time. These missing parts did not usually prevent the vacuums from working, so he could get a new vacuum for free, and keep using the old ones.

It's fine to allow the consumer to open, repair, break, or do whatever to their purchased product, but IMO it's quite an abuse to rule that companies still have to honor the warranty afterwards. If their product breaks, and they see that it's not been opened or tampered with, then it's clearly their own fault or misfortune, but when there is clear evidence that the owner messed with it, then it's no longer clear that they are at fault —yet apparently they now have to pay the repair price regardless. :(
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Re: Mole204's Wasteland 3 Construction Checklist

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Gizmo wrote: January 23rd, 2020, 2:33 amIt's fine to allow the consumer to open, repair, break, or do whatever to their purchased product, but IMO it's quite an abuse to rule that companies still have to honor the warranty afterwards.
I'm sure the multimillion dollar international corporations thank you for your support.

Gizmo wrote: January 21st, 2020, 10:53 pm It used to [with good reason], which is why I mentioned it.
And computers used to be women in their 20s.

Completely irrelevant to Mole's point that somehow only developers have access to user serviceable parts today.
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Re: Mole204's Wasteland 3 Construction Checklist

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Drool wrote: January 24th, 2020, 3:57 pm
Gizmo wrote: January 23rd, 2020, 2:33 amIt's fine to allow the consumer to open, repair, break, or do whatever to their purchased product, but IMO it's quite an abuse to rule that companies still have to honor the warranty afterwards.
I'm sure the multimillion dollar international corporations thank you for your support.
It affects everyone selling anything (with a warranty) that costs over $15. :evil:
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Re: Mole204's Wasteland 3 Construction Checklist

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(argument over sealed machines)
I don't know how to jump into this, but yes, buyers are still not allowed to open their machines and swap parts for different parts. Gizmo and Wolfe are right.
That's part of one of my points. Keep the RAM use low to be able to run on the machines, both pc and console, even as the machines change slightly. Will wl2 or 3 still run on the next xbox? The next ps4? The next "there is no improvement, we just wanted to sell a new console." machine?

I just don't like the idea of malicious updating, and programs maxing out a pc's specs where they don't have to. Remember those mini levels wl2 used for encounters? They didn't have to be that detailed, or that large. It was easy to get lost. On the pc I had at the time, it still lagged.
anyone can acquire knowledge
But not everyone can test-bench parts or get a company repair contract at a useful expense level.
Okay, yes, developers are likely to have more expensive computers. I'm not sure what you're getting at with "adequate knowledge" (anyone can acquire knowledge) or "user service parts" (unless you're using a Mac, you have user serviceable parts).
Unless you're using an xbox or ps#. For many years it's been that people can often buy parts that are superior then the parts that come with the machine. Better hard drive, better ram, etc. There's nothing wrong with swapping out some 350gb hdd that you shouldn't have had to pay for in the first place, but you can't do that with sealed xboxes and still get warranty help for things like the red ring problem. And developers have always spent thousands of dollars above that for minor or major changes in cpu or graphics numbers.
There are no healing items in Wasteland.
Yes, you were right, but excuse me if I tend to mix games together since we're nearly on the third one now. Wl1 had to rely totally on single characters and mad dashes and camping out in the dead zones. Part of why wl2's timekeeping was a bit of a drag.
They handled massive battles much better.
They also -had- massive battles.
You can't immobilize a portion of the enemy, or force them to a place where only a fraction can attack.
Of course you can. Go look at the bossfight vid again. They players are fighting a small number of gargoyles, and could retreat to the doorway where only three or four squares of enemies would reach them.
The only reason Wasteland is retrofuture now is because it's 30 years old.
Yes, But gamewise that wouldn't stop military bunkers and other sealed holdouts from holding 'future' things like Quasar Keys or Power Armor. Or retro things like powdered tang and bomb shelter item-kibble. In many post-apoc. stories including Wl1 there's the implications that there was some whole secret level of government military preparing for the future, and had no reason not to spend like madmen. Kinda hinted at in Project Darwin and Sleeper Base. So at the same time it could be the 60s reel-to-reel and the sci-fi things of purple quantum nixie tubes. And things that have become obsolete like the computer lock key. Colorado caverns of cold canned corn. Fallout shelters for the military or naval dynasties- which is where Patriarch comes in as he seems to have found one, or gotten locked out of his. (Probably Victory's fault.)
That's part of the idea behind Morningstar the Car, remember.

It would be totally in style for WL for players to run into things like "Instructions on how to line your pajamas with lead." just put up on a wall for a bump-search mention.
https://auto.howstuffworks.com/fuel-eff ... ed-car.htm
https://www.dpvintageposters.com/poster ... ergy_16794
https://www.pinterest.ca/pin/178455203954764440/
That already exists: "Wasteland: The Original Classic". It's been out on Steam and GOG for years now.
I may have verbally overlooked that. There was a lot of wl2 to solve. PC problems, not just the game. Pardon my confusion that BOTH will now exist. 3 versions of 1, 2 versions of 2, and wl3 coming out. (not counting the different versions like mac, Xbox, Ps4, etc)
And yes, I verbally overlooked the Wasteland 1 reissue, which makes the Wl1 re-graphics version even more useless if there's not going to be any Wl1 style spin-offs. I would accept a wl1 or wl1-re style original game. It would avoid some of the issues I had with wl2, hopefully. Why remaster the game if you aren't going to use the re-assets again in another game? What would they even call it? Wl-re-2? Wl-re-(original title)? If I only knew the right programming, (or could even string together enough wl level maker levels) I would love to make one if I had the time. It would solve some the arguing here as I seem to have picked up a few people who would need to have the example sitting in front of them to understand "Oh, THAT!"
InXile is (at time of writing) looking for new staff for two locations. There's no clue on what project, but the unknown gives hope for a new old-style Wasteland! :) What would Wl2 have been if they could have made Wl2 back in the Interplay era, instead of making Fallout 1?
Inxile is a game publisher! No product means nothing to sell. Therefore, more games in the future.
Wasteland Remastered drops in just one more month—February 25 for Windows (Windows Store, Steam, GOG) and Xbox One (with Xbox Game Pass)!
Come get steamy with us, it's steamy in the steam room.
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So the Wasteland 3 Collector's Edition has shipped.
The stretch goals right up to The Bizarre bizzare has been completed.
I just want to point out the rewards included
[/quote]Digital Ranger's Guide to Colorado
Digital Novella Bundle
Digital Art Book
Digital Soundtrack
Digital High Resolution Art[/quote]
A paragraph book would NOT have taken anything extra, in space or effort. And, indeed, the Guide, Novella, and Art book, and even at least one of the books of the Novella would have all been acceptable places to drop in the PB, even as plot framework for a novel.
So much so, that one of those might BE the PB for wl3. I do not know, and would have to read them to make sure. :) Does anyone have any staff-mention proof about anything on this question?
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Re: Mole204's Wasteland 3 Construction Checklist

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Mole204 wrote: January 25th, 2020, 11:43 pmbuyers are still not allowed to open their machines and swap parts for different parts.
Yes they are. In fact, back when my computer was a discount special from Office Max, I replaced the CPU, added a slot fan, and added a video card, all without voiding anything.
Gizmo and Wolfe are right.
Gizmo and Woolfe were taking opposite stances, so they can't both be right.
Will wl2 or 3 still run on the next xbox? The next ps4? The next "there is no improvement, we just wanted to sell a new console." machine?
Assuming they have backwards compatibility, yes as newer generation consoles have more horsepower. That's rather the point.
Unless you're using an xbox or ps#
I really don't know why consoles keep coming up in a conversation about PCs.
There's nothing wrong with swapping out some 350gb hdd that you shouldn't have had to pay for in the first place
Computer parts should be free?
They handled massive battles much better.
They also -had- massive battles.
You continue to miss the point. Yes, Wasteland had large battles, but it had systems to allow for those battles without them becoming a horrible slog. With Wasteland 2's existing mechanics, I wouldn't want giant battles with 100+ enemies.

Look at Bard's Tale. The original had that huge fight with 396 (or so) Barbarians. It's something that everyone who's played the game talks about. It's iconic. It was long, but it was certainly doable, especially if you maxed the speed on the text scroll. They tried to replicate it in Bard's Tale 4. It was a fight that had 99 waves of 4 enemies each. It was horribly boring. It was an extremely dull and repetitive fight that felt like it was only added for fanservice, and poorly added at that. Bard's Tale 4 didn't have the right mechanics to handle a fight with 396 enemies, so trying to do so "because the original did" was a bad idea. If they had mechanics more like the original, it could have worked, but it didn't so it didn't. At least the fight was optional.

In Wasteland, if you blow up (or use Electronics on) the little camera outside the Servants of the Mushroom Cloud Temple in Las Vegas, you get a huge fight with a whole bunch of Temple Guardians (120 or so, if I remember right). It's a tough fight, but it nets you a massive pile of XP. When I play Wasteland, it's one of the things I plan for and try to do. Depending on my weapons and armor, it can take anywhere from five to twenty minutes. The same fight with Wasteland 2 mechanics would probably take well over an hour, and be all but impossible with the engine (Wasteland 2 can't stack 30 enemies all on the same tile, and with no cover, almost any fight is a slaughter). With Wasteland 3 looking to, broadly, use the same engine (aside from some tweaks to turn order and Precision Shots), such a fight would largely be impossible and best avoided. I love that Temple Guardian fight, but I would rather have good fights the engine can do (like the main set piece in the Alpha) than a terrible fight that's only there because it's a callback to the original.

Just because it's a reference, doesn't mean it's good (see: Ernest Cline, Family Guy, etc).
Of course you can. Go look at the bossfight vid again. They players are fighting a small number of gargoyles, and could retreat to the doorway where only three or four squares of enemies would reach them.
I don't remember gargoyles in the Wasteland games. Further, a slight bottleneck like a doorway is of limited use for crowd control when the enemy can have rifles. Or grenades.

The tech level is a major issue when it comes to video game crowd control. Funneling the enemy through the Hot Gates is one thing when bronze is advanced technology and rather different when you have rocket launchers.
So at the same time it could be the 60s reel-to-reel
But 60s era reel-to-reel doesn't fit in Wasteland; they had moved beyond that technology. An M1 Garand would be high tech in the 7 years war, but that doesn't make it futuristic in something set in 1982.
It would be totally in style for WL for players to run into things like "Instructions on how to line your pajamas with lead."
No, it wouldn't, because that's a 50s aesthetic. That kind of thing fits in Fallout, not Wasteland. Nobody was talking about that sort of thing in the 80s. By the 80s, still during the Cold War, fallout shelters were considered silly kitsch. Mantinee was a movie made in 1993 that used Cold War tension as a central point for war paranoia and comedy, and it was set in 1962. Because by 1993, that just wasn't as much a concern any more. If you really wanted a someone silly book tapping into concerns, it would be more likely something about "Surviving the Nuclear Winter on $0.50 a Day".
3 versions of 1, 2 versions of 2, and wl3 coming out.
Depending on how you count, sure. Mostly. Pedantry incoming:

Not counting the non-PC releases (C64 and Apple), there was the original DOS, the reissue on the Interplay Anniversary CD, the "Original Classic" re-release a few years ago, and the upcoming Remaster. For what it's worth, pretty much every Abandonware copy was the Interplay Anniversary version, and the Original Classic version was essentially a rewrapped and gussied up version of the Interplay copy as well. The original DOS release seems to be largely lost to the mists of time, unfortunately.
And yes, I verbally overlooked the Wasteland 1 reissue, which makes the Wl1 re-graphics version even more useless if there's not going to be any Wl1 style spin-offs.
I wouldn't call all new art, cut scenes, and bug fixes useless. I don't think anybody seriously considered the Bard's Tale Remaster useless because the games were bundled with The Bard's Tale 2004.
Why remaster the game if you aren't going to use the re-assets again in another game?
Because they're different games? Are you honestly saying that Wasteland 2 would have been improved if it only used thirty year old assets?

And, again, Wasteland 3 is set in frozen Colorado. Exothermic lizards from the desert don't make much sense in the tundra.
What would Wl2 have been if they could have made Wl2 back in the Interplay era, instead of making Fallout 1?
It probably would have been a real sequel, instead of the weird hybrid we got.
Inxile is a game publisher! No product means nothing to sell. Therefore, more games in the future.
Yes. Thank you for this galaxy-brain insight.
A paragraph book would NOT have taken anything extra, in space or effort.
Yes, books just materialize out of the aether without any effort by anyone. That's why writers and bookbinders and publishers don't exist.

I got a different computer since. (mentioned that a few times)
Cool. What kind of video card does it have?
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Re: Mole204's Wasteland 3 Construction Checklist

Post by Mole204 »

I replaced the CPU, added a slot fan, and added a video card, all without voiding anything.
Can you do that with an xbox 360? Ps4? Whatever the current one is?
newer generation consoles have more horsepower. That's rather the point.
The point is that newer programs do -not- have to use more horsepower, and there should be a rough upper limit involved, that does not require the next newest computer or console to play it one. This isn't even upgrade-refusal on my part, it's a matter of wl2's stability failings that wl3 looks to have gotten as well.
Wl2 and 3 were made for multiple platforms, and may have gotten some incompatibility overlooked in each platform-aimed creation/compiling.
Again, that word of caution I was talking about.

They're shipping copies, so the game is complete. We all have to wait to see how bad the occasional "they dropped the ball" moments will be.
more games in the future. Yes. Thank you for this galaxy-brain insight.


Yes, bravo, you understood what what was written, just not that: there may be the possibility of more Wasteland games done in the Remastered style. Remastering wl1, I see no purpose for. But going on to make a WLR sequel or two? Sure, remaster wl1, make a whole triology. It'd have to be cheaper to assemble than the modern wl2 did, right?
Yes, Inexile may keep on making more games, but they may just as easily never make another wl game. They've got Bard's Tale, Numenera, etc. But wl Remastered? again: Why redo the already repacked first game if you aren't going to use it's bits to make a sequel?
Yes, I know it'd getting ahead of things to wonder about a sequel/series to wl1-re, when wl3 isn't even out! :P

Just because it's a reference, doesn't mean it's good (see: Ernest Cline, Family Guy, etc).

This cannot be argued against, and arguing in support of that statement proves right a great deal of what I've been saying earlier on several topics from no swearing, to hope that the Serpoids aren't overlooked, and some other stuff like Victory and the Shak. Just because it's stamped "done" doesn't mean it was worked on to the point that the product is good. They can get it totally right, but still fail only because they wanted to butch it up.
reel to reel
You find some old bunker, and expect it to be the one that you want, on the first try? Why not find some bunker in the depths of the Coloradioactive that was untouched since -before- the bomb fell, while you're finding ones from -since- the bomb fell?
I'm assuming that bullets don't have a shelf life. That you can find things you need to solve character quests, like the guy who just really wanted a video game in wl2, or the need for another engine in wl1.
That kind of thing fits in Fallout, not Wasteland.
Hmm. You might be right.
Yes, Wasteland had large battles, but it had systems to allow for those battles without them becoming a horrible slog.

Better cut down on the program's ram usage then. (shrug)
The original had that huge fight with 396 (or so) Barbarians.

Ooh! That might be too many! But then, in wl2 the players are supposed to be killed by the prison cannons. And let's not forget the Lord British Challenge!
Heh, I think I mentioned the idea in a thread somewhere of Angela Deth giving you a quest by outrunning a screen full of threshing crawlers right to the Ranger hq's walls.
-
Dethbringer
-
You look out over a field of shining metal robots, rows upon rows of them back to the end of the visible clearing. Each one able to murder you and everyone inside the walls.
Angela Deth leans over, putting her hands on her knees, out of breath.
"OK, you take over now. I'm going to go take a nap."
-
Or would you prefer that's how they'd introduce the Bunnymaster of Colorado?
Bard's Tale 4 didn't have the right mechanics to handle a fight with 396 enemies, so trying to do so "because the original did" was a bad idea. If they had mechanics more like the original, it could have worked, but it didn't so it didn't.


Yes, you're right. Something that's stripped down and speedy in wl1 wouldn't work so well in the graphics intensive wl2.
Perhaps if we could save during fight scenes.

you get a huge fight with a whole bunch of Temple Guardians

One of my favorite moments too. Assuming you're not the "killed by Citadel Ax Guy" level snotling. You can trigger it when you're -ready- for it.
If wl3 can't stack 30 enemies on the same tile, just get more tiles. There's easily enough room in any area of the fight encounter levels. Great big waste of spaces, those things.
I don't remember gargoyles in the Wasteland games.

Curse of the Azure Bonds was brought up. Wl was, and should, be more classic RPG.
Are you honestly saying that Wasteland 2 would have been improved if it only used thirty year old assets?

It looks like it sure would have been less glitchy. Smaller. Fewer graphics compatibility concerns. Easier to load into various devices. Quicker to create. Fewer delays involved while they get the Unity game engine to stop puking.
Yes, books just materialize out of the aether without any effort by anyone.

And like I said, a paragraph book could have been done in a few days by a staff member. Throw in editing and yes, keep it clean, it still would have been done in less than a week.
Also, you skipped the part about " Digital Novella Bundle", didn't you?

What kind of video card does it have?
At the moment nvidia something something Yes, that should be all I need.
Stability couldn't have gotten _worse_ after all, right? Surely...
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Re: Mole204's Wasteland 3 Construction Checklist

Post by Woolfe »

Gizmo wrote: January 23rd, 2020, 2:33 am It's fine to allow the consumer to open, repair, break, or do whatever to their purchased product, but IMO it's quite an abuse to rule that companies still have to honor the warranty afterwards. If their product breaks, and they see that it's not been opened or tampered with, then it's clearly their own fault or misfortune, but when there is clear evidence that the owner messed with it, then it's no longer clear that they are at fault —yet apparently they now have to pay the repair price regardless. :(
Your opinion on the matter is irrelevant...
Mole204 wrote: January 25th, 2020, 11:43 pm I don't know how to jump into this, but yes, buyers are still not allowed to open their machines and swap parts for different parts. Gizmo and Wolfe are right.
Do you ever actually read anything we say? Gizmo and I had opposing view points....
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Re: Mole204's Wasteland 3 Construction Checklist

Post by Gizmo »

Woolfe wrote: January 28th, 2020, 2:16 am
Gizmo wrote: January 23rd, 2020, 2:33 am It's fine to allow the consumer to open, repair, break, or do whatever to their purchased product, but IMO it's quite an abuse to rule that companies still have to honor the warranty afterwards. If their product breaks, and they see that it's not been opened or tampered with, then it's clearly their own fault or misfortune, but when there is clear evidence that the owner messed with it, then it's no longer clear that they are at fault —yet apparently they now have to pay the repair price regardless. :(
Your opinion on the matter is irreverent...
Fixed. It's a very telling attitude of yours; so easily do you condone their abuse. You would quote that entire passage to merely vilipend its author's opinion, rather than respond to its meaning. In fact you ignore the consequence of its meaning entirely.

You don't own a manufacturing business—do you? :lol:
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Re: Mole204's Wasteland 3 Construction Checklist

Post by Drool »

Mole204 wrote: January 27th, 2020, 10:12 pm
I replaced the CPU, added a slot fan, and added a video card, all without voiding anything.
Can you do that with an xbox 360? Ps4? Whatever the current one is?
You do realize that the XBox and Playstation aren't PCs, yes? They are completely irrelevant to the conversation which started with games being too demanding for computers.
Remastering wl1, I see no purpose for.
As you've stated repeatedly.
But going on to make a WLR sequel or two? Sure, remaster wl1, make a whole triology. It'd have to be cheaper to assemble than the modern wl2 did, right?
What? The sequel to the Wasteland Remaster would be... Wasteland 2. Which already exists. And if you're trying to talk about making a remaster for Wasteland 2, why? One generally doesn't remaster a five year old game.
Yes, Inexile may keep on making more games, but they may just as easily never make another wl game.
...okay?

Frankly, at this point, I'd much rather see them do new properties and stop making middling sequels. I would have enjoyed Bard's Tale 4 much more if it had just been "Barrows Deep" instead of trying to cash in on my nostalgia. While I didn't spend much time with Torment, I'd rather see more like that.
They've got Bard's Tale, Numenera, etc. But wl Remastered? again: Why redo the already repacked first game if you aren't going to use it's bits to make a sequel?
Do... do you just not understand what a remaster is?
Just because it's a reference, doesn't mean it's good (see: Ernest Cline, Family Guy, etc).

This cannot be argued against, and arguing in support of that statement proves right a great deal of what I've been saying earlier on several topics from no swearing, to hope that the Serpoids aren't overlooked
It does nothing of the sort. It has nothing to do with swearing, and would be an argument against Serpioids; especially since you're argument for the inclusion of Serpioids hinges entirely on being a reference.
reel to reel
You find some old bunker, and expect it to be the one that you want, on the first try? Why not find some bunker in the depths of the Coloradioactive that was untouched since -before- the bomb fell, while you're finding ones from -since- the bomb fell?
First of all, I would expect every bunker to predate the bombs because afterwards, people aren't likely to be building bunkers. Secondly, while it would certainly be possible to find such a thing, it's incredibly unlikely in the real world, and even less fitting in a game world as game worlds usually streamline to the theme.

Sure, I could find a bunker filled with muzzle-loading blunderbusses, but it's not very likely and would feel very out of place.
I'm assuming that bullets don't have a shelf life.
You assume wrong.
It looks like it sure would have been less glitchy. Smaller. Fewer graphics compatibility concerns. Easier to load into various devices. Quicker to create. Fewer delays involved while they get the Unity game engine to stop puking.
Well. This is certainly an opinion. That's why Final Fantasy 15 used sprite artwork and 3 frame animations.
At the moment nvidia something something Yes, that should be all I need.
Stability couldn't have gotten _worse_ after all, right? Surely...
Well, that narrows it down to one of fifty or so cards across half a dozen manufacturers, but at least you answered.
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Re: Mole204's Wasteland 3 Construction Checklist

Post by Woolfe »

Gizmo wrote: January 28th, 2020, 7:48 am
Woolfe wrote: January 28th, 2020, 2:16 am
Gizmo wrote: January 23rd, 2020, 2:33 am It's fine to allow the consumer to open, repair, break, or do whatever to their purchased product, but IMO it's quite an abuse to rule that companies still have to honor the warranty afterwards. If their product breaks, and they see that it's not been opened or tampered with, then it's clearly their own fault or misfortune, but when there is clear evidence that the owner messed with it, then it's no longer clear that they are at fault —yet apparently they now have to pay the repair price regardless. :(
Your opinion on the matter is irreverent...
Fixed. It's a very telling attitude of yours; so easily do you condone their abuse. You would quote that entire passage to merely vilipend its author's opinion, rather than respond to its meaning. In fact you ignore the consequence of its meaning entirely.

You don't own a manufacturing business—do you? :lol:
1 Your opinion is still irrelevant, because the law defines that those pissy little stickers are not legal.

2 A business has no right to not honour a warranty simply because a sticker is broken or missing.

3 A manufacturer builds the cost of warranty returns into their price over the volume of products they create.
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