Don't do the same mistake like in W2DC

Discussion about the upcoming Wasteland 3!

Moderator: Ranger Team Alpha

User avatar
Lakstoties
Novice
Posts: 41
Joined: August 2nd, 2017, 7:17 am

Re: Don't do the same mistake like in W2DC

Post by Lakstoties » March 4th, 2018, 11:54 am

Random thought that occurred to me.

I never cared much for the injuries that just required a timed wait to resolve. It was one of those mechanics that literally encouraged me to NOT play the game. I'm all for various status conditions, but anything that's on the timer is a silly waste of time. With that in mind, they should be rarer to happen. And, medicine can still be performed without a kit. I always hated that those healing skills were absolutely useless with out the kits.

User avatar
Zombra
Global Moderator
Posts: 6210
Joined: March 8th, 2012, 10:50 pm

Re: Don't do the same mistake like in W2DC

Post by Zombra » March 4th, 2018, 12:27 pm

The timed mechanics on status effects were definitely weird. The one I really hated was that bleeding suddenly dropped to real-time after combat, sometimes necessitating fast reflexes and precision button clicking to save an injured Ranger from death. Lethal combat itself was nowhere near as stressful as putting on band-aids afterwards.
Image

User avatar
Drool
Forum Moderator
Posts: 9679
Joined: March 17th, 2012, 9:58 pm
Location: Under Tenebrosia, doing shots with Sceadu.

Re: Don't do the same mistake like in W2DC

Post by Drool » March 4th, 2018, 1:52 pm

Lakstoties wrote:
March 4th, 2018, 9:22 am
From experience... If you want to add fair challenge, just add a little bit of tactics to the enemies. Tactical prowess can enable even the weakest enemies to be devastating to more powerful enemies.
The team should take a break to play Divinity: Original Sin 2. The enemies there really know how to use tactics, even to the point of attacking an ally with a ricocheting attack to hit a PC that would otherwise be out of range/line of sight. Enemies that regen from specific elemental damage types will attack each other to heal up. The AI is unexpectedly bright.

Granted, it's a fantasy realm, so some of it won't transfer, but a smarter AI would make combat much more interesting.
Alwa nasci korliri das.

Doni
Initiate
Posts: 24
Joined: February 8th, 2018, 2:49 pm

Re: Don't do the same mistake like in W2DC

Post by Doni » March 4th, 2018, 3:57 pm

Lakstoties wrote:
March 4th, 2018, 9:22 am
From experience... If you want to add fair challenge, just add a little bit of tactics to the enemies. Tactical prowess can enable even the weakest enemies to be devastating to more powerful enemies. [..] Add tactics first before ever considering scaling the power level.[..]
I suspect that its one of those obvious things that easier said than done with real world limitations. Surely you understand that inxile has people with a lot of practical experience with doing just that.. and yet you are not pleased. Btw if memory serves, they upped the damage output in the end ( post production phase? not sure how that worked with DC) after feedback, so even if you think it was a mistake, that certainly didn't come at the expanse of tactics, magically transforming their levels/encounters into less tactical..

Anyway, I do agree that in WL3 they have a lot more resources to work with and I am excited to see how they can do better in this respect.

User avatar
Grohal
Master
Posts: 1054
Joined: April 26th, 2013, 9:51 pm

Re: Don't do the same mistake like in W2DC

Post by Grohal » March 4th, 2018, 11:55 pm

Zombra wrote:
March 4th, 2018, 11:48 am
Doni wrote:
March 4th, 2018, 6:22 am
Also does every encounter need to be a boss fight?
Every encounter should make me sit up in my chair and pay attention. If I'm watching TV and pressing AAADDD[Enter] (or the Wasteland 3 equivalent), something is wrong. A steep power curve creates more situations like this.
+++

If I want a game to play itself I buy some AAA-shite. :mrgreen:
The timed mechanics on status effects were definitely weird. The one I really hated was that bleeding suddenly dropped to real-time after combat, sometimes necessitating fast reflexes and precision button clicking to save an injured Ranger from death. Lethal combat itself was nowhere near as stressful as putting on band-aids afterwards.
A broken bone should not heal itself but needing a doc or at least a medic putting on a splint. A bleeding should bleed you dead unless taken care of by some medic. A broken skull should REALLY take that ranger out unless treated by some high-class doc. And so on...
Such stuff going away in 200 or whatever seconds is just plain stupid.
Hell is no place, hell is a condition.

User avatar
Zombra
Global Moderator
Posts: 6210
Joined: March 8th, 2012, 10:50 pm

Re: Don't do the same mistake like in W2DC

Post by Zombra » March 5th, 2018, 8:35 am

Grohal wrote:
March 4th, 2018, 11:55 pm
A broken bone should not heal itself but needing a doc or at least a medic putting on a splint. A bleeding should bleed you dead unless taken care of by some medic. A broken skull should REALLY take that ranger out unless treated by some high-class doc. And so on...
Such stuff going away in 200 or whatever seconds is just plain stupid.
Wellllllll if we're going to the realism route then your Rangers should spend at least a month in a hospital after every time they are attacked with lethal weapons. And if it happens more than 2 or 3 times they should retire. But I don't think we're going that route :)
Image

User avatar
Grohal
Master
Posts: 1054
Joined: April 26th, 2013, 9:51 pm

Re: Don't do the same mistake like in W2DC

Post by Grohal » March 5th, 2018, 8:40 am

Zombra wrote:
March 5th, 2018, 8:35 am
Grohal wrote:
March 4th, 2018, 11:55 pm
A broken bone should not heal itself but needing a doc or at least a medic putting on a splint. A bleeding should bleed you dead unless taken care of by some medic. A broken skull should REALLY take that ranger out unless treated by some high-class doc. And so on...
Such stuff going away in 200 or whatever seconds is just plain stupid.
Wellllllll if we're going to the realism route then your Rangers should spend at least a month in a hospital after every time they are attacked with lethal weapons. And if it happens more than 2 or 3 times they should retire. But I don't think we're going that route :)
Nah, that would be to much. But unless we can make Troll-Rangers the wounds and bones should not mend themselves and even less so in 3 minutes. :)

But maybe we can build a retirement office in our base, with health insurance and disability pension. :mrgreen:
Hell is no place, hell is a condition.

User avatar
Zombra
Global Moderator
Posts: 6210
Joined: March 8th, 2012, 10:50 pm

Re: Don't do the same mistake like in W2DC

Post by Zombra » March 5th, 2018, 12:30 pm

As a compromise, maybe the best solution would be to change the names of injuries to be less specific. If we agree that "Shattered Skull" shouldn't heal in 300 seconds, maybe it could just be called "Head Injury" instead.
Image

User avatar
Grohal
Master
Posts: 1054
Joined: April 26th, 2013, 9:51 pm

Re: Don't do the same mistake like in W2DC

Post by Grohal » March 6th, 2018, 2:18 am

Zombra wrote:
March 5th, 2018, 12:30 pm
As a compromise, maybe the best solution would be to change the names of injuries to be less specific. If we agree that "Shattered Skull" shouldn't heal in 300 seconds, maybe it could just be called "Head Injury" instead.
I still wouldn't like regenerating self-healing "head injuries" and other stuff like that - not that fast at least. Better leave them out completly than that - imo of course.
Hell is no place, hell is a condition.

User avatar
Zombra
Global Moderator
Posts: 6210
Joined: March 8th, 2012, 10:50 pm

Re: Don't do the same mistake like in W2DC

Post by Zombra » March 6th, 2018, 8:20 am

Ah, I think you're being too picky now. Wounds that magically go away are just part of RPGs. Your alternative of simply eliminating status effects from the game makes things less interesting in my opinion. But I see where you're coming from.
Image

User avatar
Grohal
Master
Posts: 1054
Joined: April 26th, 2013, 9:51 pm

Re: Don't do the same mistake like in W2DC

Post by Grohal » March 6th, 2018, 9:54 am

Zombra wrote:
March 6th, 2018, 8:20 am
Ah, I think you're being too picky now. Wounds that magically go away are just part of RPGs. Your alternative of simply eliminating status effects from the game makes things less interesting in my opinion. But I see where you're coming from.
Are you speaking of wounds that go magically away with a spell or a potion?
I know Wasteland 1 had some kind of autoheal by moving. But imo this is bad design. Time heals all wounds, yes. But it doesn't in mere hours or even worse minutes (unless your chars are trolls or something similar).
This was something that was done well in Fallout 1 and 2, if I had some status like a broken limp or whatever I needed seeing a doc or being one myself to take care of that.
I just dont like being shot blind, going in some corner, making myself a real-life coffee and when I return 5 minutes later I can see again. Did Jesus just drop by when I was in the kitchen? :mrgreen:
Hell is no place, hell is a condition.

unkle
Initiate
Posts: 16
Joined: January 21st, 2018, 12:18 am

Re: Don't do the same mistake like in W2DC

Post by unkle » April 30th, 2018, 1:51 am

I agree,

Some effects shouldnt go away till you sort them out, if it means you have to have gimpy legged ranger #4 sowing your overall travels down untill the doc levels up his med skills, so be it

Otherwise whats the point of having surgeio. And med skills, just have band aide applier and scrap the other two, heck, given that you rarely cop major injuries, have it that after “surgery” your ranger has an extra action point for a while?! Then people will sit back an thinkc “yeah, glad i leveled up surgeon” instead of ..argh guess i better upgrade surgeon soon..not that i want to

unkle
Initiate
Posts: 16
Joined: January 21st, 2018, 12:18 am

Re: Don't do the same mistake like in W2DC

Post by unkle » April 30th, 2018, 1:54 am

Even if you incorperate the use of surgeon early on, forcing a random member to get crippled in a cinematic fight, then having some npc sort them out

Have more injured people in the game that you can choose to fix up for some kind of gain

Medical supplies are always expensive an scarce as it is

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest