Utility items?

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unkle
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Utility items?

Post by unkle » January 21st, 2018, 6:08 am

So, havnt found anything on this,

But just wondering about utility items in WL2

So theres discussion on the combat mechanics and how the npc's are that strong u get wasted by a pistol while your Minigun lands 1 shot which only scratches

And theres talk of enviromental effects? Presuming blizzards maybe? Minimising visibility/accuracy

So is there a chance of utility items..? Smoke grenades/ fashbangs, flares, emp nades to make fights not feel so one sided and not just a "biggest gun wins" fight. Having 1-2 turn de-buffs
From the flashbang for example, makes the two third health munching bullet not happen every turn as you chip away their rediculous hp an armor.
Smoke grenades could take out the vision of one turret as you try take the other 2 firing at u out?

Then maybe the possibility of night vision goggles... infrared goggles/scope to help in blizzards and smoke nades? (maybe showing an outline of enemies)
Helping kill enemies in cover even? Helping increase accuracy ? Or negate some of the cover?
I mean why not be able to add stuff to your helmet attachments?
Heck glowsticks to double check of timmy fell down the well

I just feel its a factor that might help even fights out? And make for some fun storyline stuff

Think i touched on this in another thread so i thought id start this one as i havnt seen anything so far.

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sear
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Re: Utility items?

Post by sear » January 21st, 2018, 6:12 am

More varied consumables, grenades, and similar is certainly something we'd like to try to get into the game. It would be nice to hear what types of things you guys most want to see. :)

unkle
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Re: Utility items?

Post by unkle » January 21st, 2018, 4:34 pm

sear wrote:
January 21st, 2018, 6:12 am
More varied consumables, grenades, and similar is certainly something we'd like to try to get into the game. It would be nice to hear what types of things you guys most want to see. :)
Your thoughts on the nightvision an infrared an stuff? is that too much work to try get into the game mechanics?

As for consumables, guess there should be varying types of say smoke nades, got normal military smoke nades, maybe have less effective ones too like...lol a care tyre soaked in petrol lit an thrown makin nasty black smoke..that can cause some debuffs..? On both sides? Maybe even lung cancer in 40 years lol

Some hallucinative plant dust balls that messes accuracy up a little, or something thrown that releases something that progressivly debuffs unless you move from it, perfect to flush out people from cover, molotov? Acid nades that make armour less?

Flares? Guess thats gonna affect everyone.. given the enemy generally has better accuracy then you anyways, might just decrease the amount of death for a turn or two while u heal up or try to move your baseball bats an monkey wrenches in closer.
Guess make the flares rigged to go off early so its catching everyone, maybe even do some burn damage ?! Pretty funny if you out of ammo and a flare finishes someone off whose low hp

Throwable thumbtacks or those star things that james bond is aways dumping out his car that pop tyres- have snipers throw them to slow down the wrecker coming at yout with a sledgehammer

Thats all ive come up with before i head out lol

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Grohal
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Re: Utility items?

Post by Grohal » January 22nd, 2018, 5:08 am

Bring back gasmasks - and one or two situations where I need them to go on. Other protection gear, too. Just dont use it to get into other territories, like in WL2, but to get into certain buildings.
And as this will be playing in a frozen enviroment: clothing that would be needed, at least in the coldest places, for the rangers not to freeze to death.

As for weapons Throwing knives, Tomahawks, bows, crossbows, speers, javelins and other "primitive", reusable or easy to replace weapons - everything that WOULD be needed when ammo is scare (which it should be).

All gear this should at least be necessary in the beginning and could get better over time depending on the choices made.

Later, as the rangers go against better trained, armed... dangerous foes, things like flashbangs, smoke grenades and other tactictal stuff should make the difference in (hopefully longer) fights.
Hell is no place, hell is a condition.

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undecaf
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Re: Utility items?

Post by undecaf » January 23rd, 2018, 7:45 pm

Yeah, gasmasks for situational use would be neat.

Also, lockpick kits to increase success chances of the attempts. Electronic ones for special locks.

Also... Perhaps you notice a an opening on the building wall five meters up and through which you could enter. It’s too high to climb, but maybe you’ve found a piece of rope and a grappling hook that you can combine for a special item, maybe you also found a gun that can shoot it higher than your rangers can throw where that’s the situation (or maybe you have synth/robot companion that can throw it that high).

Snowshoes might be a handy item in certain situations considering the setting.

Bring back some of that old adventure game magic with using and combining items with each other and the environment (with appropriate skillchecks, of course).
"A human being in his last extremity IS a bag of shit."

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Gizmo
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Re: Utility items?

Post by Gizmo » January 23rd, 2018, 10:45 pm

Small frame characters could perhaps climb through such openings; not unlike the drones entering the vents in the Shadowrun series.

Wasteland Tunnel Rats.

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Grohal
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Re: Utility items?

Post by Grohal » January 24th, 2018, 9:16 am

Gizmo wrote:
January 23rd, 2018, 10:45 pm
Small frame characters could perhaps climb through such openings; not unlike the drones entering the vents in the Shadowrun series.

Wasteland Tunnel Rats.
I like that one. :)
Hell is no place, hell is a condition.

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undecaf
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Re: Utility items?

Post by undecaf » January 25th, 2018, 12:41 am

Gizmo wrote:
January 23rd, 2018, 10:45 pm
Small frame characters could perhaps climb through such openings; not unlike the drones entering the vents in the Shadowrun series.

Wasteland Tunnel Rats.
Yeah that’d be neat.

I remember there was lengthy discussion in some thread about giving the ’flavor’ options in character creation - like choice for cigarette brand, nationality and religion (or the lack thereof) - some gameplay weight. The character size slider is one of those options that could bear some mechanical trappings to it.
"A human being in his last extremity IS a bag of shit."

unkle
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Re: Utility items?

Post by unkle » January 25th, 2018, 1:16 am

I like the snowshoes idea maybe some snow is too soft to walk through without em?

unkle
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Re: Utility items?

Post by unkle » January 25th, 2018, 1:17 am

Bear traps?! Could be fun having them in game? Giant trap snapping closed, limbs flying off?!

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Grohal
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Re: Utility items?

Post by Grohal » February 2nd, 2018, 10:08 pm

IF there is day/night circle, night/infrared googles would be neat to get that little bit of advantage in night fights against otherwise superior enemies. If there is no day/night circle they could still be used in dark caves and cellars in unelectrified buildings.
Of course you could still be using torches/torchlights (especially mining helmets with lamps), but if you don't want to be seen they are a bad choice.
Hell is no place, hell is a condition.

Dork Mage
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Re: Utility items?

Post by Dork Mage » February 3rd, 2018, 2:43 pm

I would imagine that infrared goggles would help in daytime white-out snow conditions.

demeisen
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Re: Utility items?

Post by demeisen » February 5th, 2018, 6:28 pm

I like some of the ideas in the OP's post, and some of the other replies such as night vision goggles. Very similar: in WL2DC I kept wishing for more variety of weapon mods. The problem was that I felt there was pretty much a "best" set of mods to have, so there wasn't a lot of variety of configuration. Sure, you'd upgrade as you found better stuff, but once you found level N, there weren't many tactical considerations.

I kept wanting things that had meaningful tradeoffs. Here's something I wrote in my WL2DC review:
Weapon modding was great too. It could stand a little more variety though: often there was a clear "best" set of mods to use. I could imagine things like flash-bang grenade launcher attachments which cost the enemy AP or CI at the cost that you can't also equip an underbarrel flashlight. Or slug rounds for shotguns: more single-target damage up close, but no cone angle. Etc - more things to force tradeoffs and add variety.
(Also wishing for a more "post-apoc survival" feel which doesn't give us more loot than we know what to do with, a problem I felt WL2 had).

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sear
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Re: Utility items?

Post by sear » February 5th, 2018, 7:14 pm

demeisen wrote:
February 5th, 2018, 6:28 pm
I like some of the ideas in the OP's post, and some of the other replies such as night vision goggles. Very similar: in WL2DC I kept wishing for more variety of weapon mods. The problem was that I felt there was pretty much a "best" set of mods to have, so there wasn't a lot of variety of configuration. Sure, you'd upgrade as you found better stuff, but once you found level N, there weren't many tactical considerations.

I kept wanting things that had meaningful tradeoffs.
Do you see this as a simple quantity issue, where the trade-offs in Wasteland 2 were good but there simply weren't enough mods to keep you interested throughout the game? Or would you prefer a more direct upgrade path, but some specific mods that are more powerful, but also come with downsides? In other words, do you see mods as more about customizing your play-style, or as a way to let you punch above your weight and keep your lower-level weapons useful for longer?

I'd be curious to see what people think and prefer overall. :)

demeisen
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Re: Utility items?

Post by demeisen » February 5th, 2018, 10:37 pm

sear wrote:
February 5th, 2018, 7:14 pm
Do you see this as a simple quantity issue, where the trade-offs in Wasteland 2 were good but there simply weren't enough mods to keep you interested throughout the game? Or would you prefer a more direct upgrade path, but some specific mods that are more powerful, but also come with downsides? In other words, do you see mods as more about customizing your play-style, or as a way to let you punch above your weight and keep your lower-level weapons useful for longer?
Hey Sear,

In my view, quantity and tradeoffs are somewhat related. E.g: if the only thing that can go under the barrel is an underbarrel flashlight, well, I'll equip the best one of those I've found so far, on the best weapon I have so far. But that's only so interesting, because it doesn't force me into any considerations, such as, "If I equip mod X, what else am I not equipping in that slot?" I think there were a few choices like that in WL2, but not very compelling ones: I never really felt like I gave anything significant up with mods (and only rarely with weapon choices). I wanted more opportunity cost involved. It isn't so much that I think mods should have major downsides - maybe a little of that here or there is OK - but I think I should get to equip at most 1 of N in a given position, where there's more than one compelling choice. The only thing I can recall with a little of that flavor was shotgun chokes, trading distance for spread or vice versa.

If there were more options, such as (say) an underbarrel stun grenade launcher which had a (very minor) negative to accuracy and where you couldn't use both that and the flashlight, or a bayonet to let the weapon function as an inferior but serviceable melee weapon, then it gets more interesting: do I want a single round flash-bang that'll cost the enemy some AP, do I want the flashlight, the teargas grenade launcher that reduces enemy accuracy for a couple rounds, or the bayonet? It's important that there's no obvious "right" answer: then there are meaningful choices for the player to make. Maybe there's an enemy sniper I can't hit with direct fire, but a teargas grenade can be lobbed in to degrade his effectiveness, so I can leave the cover he's got me pinned down behind.

Editing to add another thought: in all that, of course, it's also important for different weapons to main their character. You shouldn't be able to mod a shotgun into an assault rifle or vice versa.

The modding system itself and the core idea of it is a nice one. Flesh it out a little more, present me with opportunity costs to whatever choices I make, and it'd be even cooler.

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Cipher
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Re: Utility items?

Post by Cipher » February 17th, 2018, 5:53 am

Smoke Grenades , Gas Masks , Night googles , Flashbangs , Better mods for your weapon with alot of variety. Introducing the stealth mode so silencer mod is worth it. Winter clothes for surviving the cold better. Maybe I'm demanding but it would be also nice having the food / water system so outdoorman would be VERY good to have

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