Bigger party,more ammo drops,reduce weight and etc...

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Zombra
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Re: Bigger party,more ammo drops,reduce weight and etc...

Post by Zombra » November 11th, 2017, 8:10 pm

Without a LOT more Skills, I don't even know what I would do with two extra created Rangers. I already covered every noncombat skill in the book with just 4; my companions were essentially meat shields. Of course I would love to see more (and more meaningfully developed) Skills this time around, so hey, I'm into it.
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Re: Bigger party,more ammo drops,reduce weight and etc...

Post by Stuurminator » November 12th, 2017, 1:11 pm

Captain_Bonecold wrote:
November 11th, 2017, 3:13 pm
I mention leadership if you readed the full topic. Leadership ship rank 10 is 50% Max. There are NPC's with 70% chance to go rogue. You think everyone running around at 10 intelligence. 90% of all ranger squads has 1 skill guru. One ranger with 10 intelligence. Min squad intelligence for most CaC rangers is 4. There are NPC's with 2 and 3 intelligence. Let this drill in. All other stats can be used later on. 10,20,30,40 and 50 you can add 1 point into all other stats and get the max results. Skill points don't add on if you add points to intelligence. 40 level ups and 4 stat points dump into intelligence is a waste for 10 extra skill points at lv 50.

My idea to boost intelligence makes putting that extra stat point into intelligence worth it.

Everything in wasteland has a skill. If they add vehicles they would add a vehicle skill. Turning 29 skills to 30 skills. There could be 71 new skills.
I did read the full topic, which is why I didn't address the rogue chance until you claimed that a 5% rogue chance was unreasonable. There are two recruitable NPCs in the game with a rogue chance higher than 50%. In Ertan's case, it balances out his combat effectiveness (being better in a fight than most, if not all of the other recruits). NaCl, on the other hand, is a clusterfuck on every level and probably shouldn't be taken as indicative of anything.

I also know that you referred to NPCs going rogue as certain death. This is wrong. Rogue NPCs don't do anything more than closing to attack range and attacking. Most of the time, this means they're going to stay right where you put them (in cover, or at least somewhere not wholly precarious) and take a substandard shot. It's annoying, but in most cases it just means they won't really contribute that round. You should be able to deal with it.

Yes, some NPCs have 2 and 3 intelligence, and they won't get any benefit from those points until you push them up to 4. Yes, they're not perfectly minmaxed. It happens.

Adding a shitload of new skills to use a larger number of SP on won't fix the balance problem, because the balance is between different PCs, not PCs and their environment. What you're suggesting is for a character with 10 IN to ten times more useful for skills than a character with 1 IN. That's a massive difference! A character with 10 CO doesn't have ten times the accuracy or AP as a character with 1 CO. A character with 10 AW doesn't act ten times as often as a character with 1 AW. A character with 10 ST doesn't have ten times the HP or hit for ten times as much damage as the character with 1 ST.

I guess you can argue that a character with 10 CH contributes ten times as much as a character with 1 CH, but that's because charisma is barely ever used. Meanwhile, you use skills every time you proactively interact with the world in a way that calls upon any of your stats.
Captain_Bonecold wrote:
November 11th, 2017, 3:13 pm
I want all starting stats to be 4. That way I can keep luck at 4.
This doesn't contribute anything except to make the game easier. It doesn't make it character generation more interesting or give you more options.

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Re: Bigger party,more ammo drops,reduce weight and etc...

Post by Dork Mage » November 12th, 2017, 7:02 pm

Captain_Bonecold wrote:
November 11th, 2017, 3:15 pm
Angela went rogue 7 times already. 5% rogue chance. I restarted my file. I mess up on my builds and save file.
Which had me boost leadership. Oh, and there is a range to leadership. If you leader is too far away from the NPC then they go rogue.

It's a balancing act... you want NPCs in your team, then you have to have a leader and keep the NPCs close.

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Re: Bigger party,more ammo drops,reduce weight and etc...

Post by Stuurminator » November 12th, 2017, 10:57 pm

Dork Mage wrote:
November 12th, 2017, 7:02 pm
If you leader is too far away from the NPC then they go rogue.
This one isn't true, actually. The range only applies to the accuracy bonus. The rogue chance reduction applies to everyone, everywhere on the map.

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Re: Bigger party,more ammo drops,reduce weight and etc...

Post by Grohal » November 13th, 2017, 2:55 am

Stuurminator wrote:
November 12th, 2017, 10:57 pm
Dork Mage wrote:
November 12th, 2017, 7:02 pm
If you leader is too far away from the NPC then they go rogue.
This one isn't true, actually. The range only applies to the accuracy bonus. The rogue chance reduction applies to everyone, everywhere on the map.
Areu you sure? I would think Dork Mage is right here.
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Re: Bigger party,more ammo drops,reduce weight and etc...

Post by paultakeda » November 13th, 2017, 11:11 am

Weight, shmeight. I'd've liked an abstract ENC number to represent weight AND mass. And bullets would definitely have noticeable ENC.

A core 4 ranger party with 3 NPCS is one of the few things left of WL1. I'd like it to stay.

I do agree that it makes no sense for a sniper using 7.62 to drop .38 Special, but can someone confirm that this happens in WL2?

I have never understood why beasts gave ammo or other items as loot. It has always perplexed me in pretty much every RPG with killable beasts.

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Re: Bigger party,more ammo drops,reduce weight and etc...

Post by Dork Mage » November 13th, 2017, 4:38 pm

Captain_Bonecold wrote:
November 9th, 2017, 2:06 pm

Do you understand the stats in wasteland? Lets break it down for you. So you and the others can understand my point.

Intelligence: +4 = +1 action point. 4,8,10= +1 bonus skill.

Charisma: +1 = +5% Non-Combat Xp Bonus and +2m Leadership Radius.

Bonus for 1 point per stat of other stat. Intelligence is punch in the face.
Charisma (of your leader) increases the range that leadership controls rogue NPCs. It's annoying early on because your leader is "stuck" with the NPCs.

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Re: Bigger party,more ammo drops,reduce weight and etc...

Post by Stuurminator » November 13th, 2017, 8:06 pm

Dork Mage wrote:
November 13th, 2017, 4:38 pm
Charisma (of your leader) increases the range that leadership controls rogue NPCs. It's annoying early on because your leader is "stuck" with the NPCs.
You probably don't need to restate this on the same page you stated it the first time. Especially since it's wrong.

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Re: Bigger party,more ammo drops,reduce weight and etc...

Post by Lightzy » December 5th, 2017, 9:51 am

To rephrase the OP's suggestions:
"Put more marshmellows on it, also chocolate sauce and gumballs. And fizzy candy. and and ice cream cups with peanut butter and chocolate balls and caramel and everywhere more chocolate chip cookies all around with cookie dough bits and.."

Exactly the same as when a 7 year old describes his favorite dessert. Making for an overly sweet abomination that's fit for 7 year olds and no one else.

Please ignore each and every one of the original poster's suggestions and make a very tightly balanced game for adults who enjoy a challenge

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Re: Bigger party,more ammo drops,reduce weight and etc...

Post by Mole204 » December 10th, 2017, 11:58 pm

Lightzy wrote:
December 5th, 2017, 9:51 am
To rephrase the OP's suggestions:
"Put more marshmellows on it, also chocolate sauce and gumballs. And fizzy candy. and and ice cream cups with peanut butter and chocolate balls and caramel and everywhere more chocolate chip cookies all around with cookie dough bits and.."

Exactly the same as when a 7 year old describes his favorite dessert. Making for an overly sweet abomination that's fit for 7 year olds and no one else.

Please ignore each and every one of the original poster's suggestions and make a very tightly balanced game for adults who enjoy a challenge
I would think that it's part of a game designer's job to figure out how many different bowls (or game areas, levels, or skills) are involved.
Yes, we want it all and want it now, but we want it in it's proper place and in it's proper box. WL2 was a larger game than WL1, but WL1 was a more populated game then WL2. There are just posters here who want to bring the fun-crazy back.

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Re: Bigger party,more ammo drops,reduce weight and etc...c

Post by fuzzyballs01 » January 4th, 2018, 1:05 am

"game is too hard for me"
W2 had you sell weapon parts and actual shit for big bucks to spend on big guns and ammo
I always had more than I ever needed

and Intelligence and strength isthe only stats that mattered
intelligence for skill points and str for the health
who needs speed, luck or charisma when you're a tank
2 charisma and my rangersstill got to lvl 50

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Re: Bigger party,more ammo drops,reduce weight and etc...

Post by unkle » January 21st, 2018, 5:32 am

Zombra wrote:
October 31st, 2017, 2:25 pm
Wasteland 2 already has a Rookie difficulty level.
:lol:

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Re: Bigger party,more ammo drops,reduce weight and etc...

Post by HolyBanish » February 17th, 2018, 10:48 pm

well i did read all of these things above but i think they should add in bit more loot system, like one-two more weapon drop at low chance at every random encounters or mobs you killed, i just don't want to bother with killing mobs that drops nothing but loot? bah i would want to see bit more of loot drops, maybe adding in separate drops system so when you kill a raider for example, it drops a weapon at low chance along with ammo at low chance or drops the ammo and loot at same time.

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Re: Bigger party,more ammo drops,reduce weight and etc...

Post by silentchoppa » March 11th, 2018, 1:16 pm

Captain_Bonecold wrote:
October 24th, 2017, 7:49 pm
First thing remove the weight off ammo. Intelligence is weak. Please make every point in intelligence matter. For example I have 5 intelligence i should get 5 skill points per level. Make all starting stats 4 plus 10 free to spend points. Also make me want to build different from every one else. Promblem wasteland 2 is 90% People copy and paste. Allow 1 perk every 3 levels. Add more perks. Make energy weapons do 100% damaged against lightly armored targets. Improve weak perks. For example melee shooting reduce assult rifle close range penalty by 35%. That only reduce the penalty from 25% to a close range penalty of 16%. Make the perk more useful. I would have like the penalty gone. A 50% isn't the way I would like but it's better than 35%.

The player should be able to create 6 rangers. 3 NPC's join. Two more rangers would allow me to have a ranger who uses handgun and a melee ranger.

Animal whisper should add bonus stats to animals. Animals who are charmed should permanently join your team and lv up. Lv up for join animals adds stats. Animal can be revived with Animal trama kits. Mekits should heal animals.

Improve barter skill so rank 10 your selling items for 70% of there price and buying them for 70% of there price.

Enemies need to drop more ammo and more loot. Enemies need to drop more types of ammo. I fought a raider in wasteland 2 and it drop zero ammo. A sniper raider. And most raiders when drop ammo always drops handgun ammo. 5 handgun ammo isn't enough.
dude i totally agree with what your saying tho their are a couple things i would have different to your requests your core suggestions are spot on

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Re: Bigger party,more ammo drops,reduce weight and etc...

Post by silentchoppa » March 11th, 2018, 1:20 pm

Lightzy wrote:
December 5th, 2017, 9:51 am
To rephrase the OP's suggestions:
"Put more marshmellows on it, also chocolate sauce and gumballs. And fizzy candy. and and ice cream cups with peanut butter and chocolate balls and caramel and everywhere more chocolate chip cookies all around with cookie dough bits and.."

Exactly the same as when a 7 year old describes his favorite dessert. Making for an overly sweet abomination that's fit for 7 year olds and no one else.

Please ignore each and every one of the original poster's suggestions and make a very tightly balanced game for adults who enjoy a challenge
mate you dont need to be a complete arse by responding like that a dude makes some suggestions and you try to belittle him pathetic such a disgrace to humanity

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Re: Bigger party,more ammo drops,reduce weight and etc...

Post by silentchoppa » March 11th, 2018, 2:09 pm

Grohal wrote:
November 13th, 2017, 2:55 am
Stuurminator wrote:
November 12th, 2017, 10:57 pm
Dork Mage wrote:
November 12th, 2017, 7:02 pm
If you leader is too far away from the NPC then they go rogue.
This one isn't true, actually. The range only applies to the accuracy bonus. The rogue chance reduction applies to everyone, everywhere on the map.
Areu you sure? I would think Dork Mage is right here.
hey grohal what i think Captain is trying to get at is he wants more of an option when creating characters so you can have a much more vast and veried party well thats what it sounds like plus by doing that you could create more quirker and enjoyable characters besides the common and robotic ones which mal a youtuber made a video about, were it had the four best builds but i noticed that the majority of other youtubers did the same builds so you have the ap monkey the the skill monkey next the sniper monkey and lastley the leader monkey see i find it extremely dull and annoying that is an option see what i believe Captain is gettin at is he wants a slight increase to the points you get from the attruibutes to be able to create a more varied and dervese group of rangers for example i feel that if you was to reduce a characters intelligence but increase his strength you should get more of a reward and vice versa but this would effect all skills because you could reduce their awerness for more speed and that would breed a more tanky dude who could go head first but not care about whats around them and vice versa they would be more awear but slow to get away but smarter at solveing how else to deal with it. does that make sense because im trying to explain in a better way no offence. as too the ammo why not make it an option so if you want weighted ammo you could but if your like me and struggle with balancing all the loot, quest items, ammo, healing packs, surgeon kits and everything else having that option would help to focus on enjoying the game and story more but then people like who enjoy the challenge can also get the option to have weighted ammo. in reference to more party members i agree more would and a better aspect to the game as i feel that to balance it they could add more skills just you would have more party members to spread the skills around meaning more unique and varied characters making the game a lot more replayable and that would give you a lot more options each time and mabey get rid of recruitables but allow animals to join and have them improving alongside the rangers then some quirkers could benefit a party with npcs more than animals or more with animals than npcs see i feel their needs to be more options for creating more deverse groups of rangers. a few things already in wl2 should be improved like the classic attributes and the perks as they could be improved to add to a more deverse party. what do you think to what i suggest i do have other ideas but best not carry on getting to long.

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Re: Bigger party,more ammo drops,reduce weight and etc...

Post by Woolfe » March 11th, 2018, 8:46 pm

Hey silentchoppa, not sure if you are aware, but that was really hard to read and understand.

Maybe put a blank line in there when you are changing points just to break it up a bit, just so its not all clumped together. Makes it easier to read.

I think Grohal was specifically talking about the actual mechanic in the WL2 game. Ie whether the Leadership ability affected everyone or only those who are in Range.
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Re: Bigger party,more ammo drops,reduce weight and etc...

Post by Grohal » March 11th, 2018, 10:40 pm

Woolfe wrote:
March 11th, 2018, 8:46 pm
...

I think Grohal was specifically talking about the actual mechanic in the WL2 game. Ie whether the Leadership ability affected everyone or only those who are in Range.
Exactly. I am no native english speaker, so maybe sometime I don't explain my point to well or misunderstand points made by other users. I am always thankful for clarifications. :mrgreen:
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Re: Bigger party,more ammo drops,reduce weight and etc...

Post by silentchoppa » March 14th, 2018, 12:51 pm

Woolfe wrote:
March 11th, 2018, 8:46 pm
Hey silentchoppa, not sure if you are aware, but that was really hard to read and understand.

Maybe put a blank line in there when you are changing points just to break it up a bit, just so its not all clumped together. Makes it easier to read.

I think Grohal was specifically talking about the actual mechanic in the WL2 game. Ie whether the Leadership ability affected everyone or only those who are in Range.
yh very true im not great with stuff like this haha plus on xbox their no enter button sorry but do you get my point tho or is it just to hard to read

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Re: Bigger party,more ammo drops,reduce weight and etc...

Post by Stuurminator » March 14th, 2018, 4:03 pm

silentchoppa wrote:
March 11th, 2018, 2:09 pm
hey grohal what i think Captain is trying to get at is...
You can already make a more varied and diverse group of rangers. I've done so and completed the game myself. Now, these rangers might not be effective as some other builds, but adding more points will not change that. The CLASSIC system in Wasteland 2 is poorly balanced - I think almost everyone on this board will agree to that. Adding more points won't even things out, it'll just make everything stronger, including those "four best builds".

If the weighted ammo is too much trouble, just carry less ammo. You don't need to carry that much ammo. Let me ask you this: how many times did you actually run out, or almost run out, of ammo playing Wasteland 2?

Why do you want more skills and party members? You describe it as if they both exist only to justify the existence of each other. Why do you prefer more animals to recruitables?

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