PreWar Bunker(s)

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Tok
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PreWar Bunker(s)

Post by Tok » July 19th, 2017, 1:03 am

Not sure, might be becaurse of good loot and old stories, but i like old bunkers. Would be nice to see some i Wasteland 3.

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sear
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Re: PreWar Bunker(s)

Post by sear » July 19th, 2017, 6:39 am

We may have at least one... ;)

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Re: PreWar Bunker(s)

Post by Tok » July 19th, 2017, 6:36 pm

Sounds good!

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Re: PreWar Bunker(s)

Post by Drool » July 19th, 2017, 10:04 pm

But will it have a Regan[sic] All Terrain Hover Tank?

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Mole204
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Re: PreWar Bunker(s)

Post by Mole204 » July 21st, 2017, 12:21 am

Great catch, Drool. We should need one to fight off the waves of chrome-plated bobcat-riding Cyborg Commandos.
https://res.cloudinary.com/format-magaz ... -parkinson
It would be useful if at least some of those bunkers were Wasteland 1 throwbacks. In wl2 we had to wander around the map when we wanted random combat, but sneaking into a base might uncover more then wl2's preference for hundred year old cans of beans, ammo, and rust. It shouldn't be any more difficult then a standard 10-floor version of (for size reference- the random fight encounter mini-levels), just standardized before the bits and bots get added. It would make a great "waves and waves of This was a a mistake! enemies" hive. Sure, some of the bases might be wl2's style, but there's only so little enjoyment to be had out of a building full of rust and mold. Let's not forget that the bases would have had a reason to exist and be stocked accordingly before, and after, the bombs fell. We've got something left? Shove it in a base! We've got something we haven't stolen yet? Shove it in a base! It might add up to some bad feeling for villages that don't have any spare parts left, and that was a hundred years ago. Now the water carriers have unionized a generation ago, and the players have to decide which faction they would want to get (engine for the water pump?) for. Damonta was a great "base run", even though you couldn't leave it until it was done. The water pipes maze (Highpool) was less entertaining, but they had to make a puzzle somewhere.

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Re: PreWar Bunker(s)

Post by Remo » July 23rd, 2017, 2:24 am

Drool wrote:
July 19th, 2017, 10:04 pm
But will it have a Regan[sic] All Terrain Hover Tank?
Does Morning star from the FIG update count? ( It would be nice if it had this voiceover )
Mole204 wrote:
July 21st, 2017, 12:21 am
[..]Let's not forget that the bases would have had a reason to exist and be stocked accordingly before, and after, the bombs fell.[..]
I agree that bunkers are fun to explore, although nitpick wise realistically there would be no reason to look for these because virtually all military installations should have been scavenged and or occupied by now.

I don't know where they hid the Morning star. But if its in Cheyenne Mountain Complex (aka Patriarch's cache of weapons of doom ? ) I doubt that his people didn't ransacked it for supplies.

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Re: PreWar Bunker(s)

Post by Mole204 » July 23rd, 2017, 12:46 pm

>virtually all military installations should have been scavenged and or occupied by now.
Would this include the ones surrounded by a mass of dead bodies and the insta-death radiation that killed them? Logically, people would assume "Whoops, it's bombed/empty/otherwise-useless, now what about those raiders?" What about the ones that were just half-buried by ground-contact bombs? Have you seen the original Planet of the Apes? The military's abilities are so far beyond a civilian's experience it's practically sci-fi. A "military strength" explosive goes beyond what you can expect, or often want. In Apes, which was political sci-fi to begin with, the details of locations were changed because of bombs detonating at the wrong time or waiting until altitude=0 and generally kicking up enough dirt to bury or change some places. Like an explosive under an ant hill. And some top-secret military bases would not be sprawling complexes anyway. A near-miss by a 1980s version of a bunker buster might leave a pretty deep crater, and a lot of dirt thrown around it. It'd be pretty hard to get an airplane out of the hanger it was buried in. Or know where it was. And who says that being occupied would be a destructive thing to the base? Those guard robots in Base Cochise sure did a good job at guarding BC, a few dozen of those might hold off the level-0 inhabitants of some dying town and their decreasing supply of bullets from WW3 to WL3. Not that a Threshing Crawler would need bullets of his own... There might be situations of a base being live but the village being dead. It'd be a fun day with the photon rifle clearing up that mass. (what would the program's enemy amount limit be, anyway?) I wonder if there'd be a Fountain of Dreams or Meantime style bunker? I still think WL3 must return to it's roots to avoid being some cheap Fallout copycat. Especially on the topic of bases and bunkers. http://www.falloutshelter.com/

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Re: PreWar Bunker(s)

Post by Mole204 » July 23rd, 2017, 11:56 pm

Y'know I just can't help musing about the difference between bases and bunkers. A base is a whole base, a place on a map, a bunch of Quonset huts, a kitchen and food supply, sleeping quarters for the permanent personel number, etc. a basic army base.
A bunker is: a pitstop, a place to duck and cover, a place where a men of high enough rank to be told the secret locations of such things can drive up in a too-fast jeep, make a gravel-spraying stop, and start hitting a sonic key against a panel in panic. A place where a secret number of people can go in a "dear god, just get me behind some concrete!" situation. Like the ww3 event.
But it's also a stocked bunker: more a storage unit than anything else. Though some people (#-star generals? a high-up schemer in the supply chain?) may have one tucked away to use as a cocktail lounge. No maps that the public can get, never on a road map, the lists hidden and only given to those elite with the clearance to get them. I know I for one would love to have a camouflaged little bolthole with a cryo-tube in it, if I had to work amongst the pre-war Wl1 setup. In case of trouble, set the dial to come back when Star Trek's going on. And the wine rack would have aged impressively. And even more rarefied, those who have the clearance to know what's in the bunker. Various fancy tanks, parts for bizarre machines, and of course- cryo tubes, shovels, and mirrors. As I'd mentioned earlier, not a nerve center, these, but a place outside the blast radius of The Bombs. A place leisurely stocked by gun-loving General Ripper types and the products of 1980s mad science, then filled by people desperate to (survive) save things from WW3 and jam anything they can get into it. Assuming they get there in time, or that the list they were using was real (oops, the paragraph book has mislead you! And so you die in the wasteland.)
Perhaps the bases were meant to be big and loud the draw the fire, and the bunkers were meant to be small and unnoticed. A line that may go back and forth when you have the Colorado Rockies to mess around with.

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Re: PreWar Bunker(s)

Post by Remo » July 24th, 2017, 3:57 am

Mole204 wrote:
July 23rd, 2017, 12:46 pm
Would this include the ones surrounded by a mass of dead bodies and the insta-death radiation that killed them? Logically, people would assume "Whoops, it's bombed/empty/otherwise-useless, now what about those raiders?" What about the ones that were just half-buried by ground-contact bombs?
No, such cases would be pretty much the exception to the rule. But I think that you shouldn't overestimate secrecy or underestimate poor and desperate in time of need.. Sing with me 'Bunker fever'

Anyway, to me this just one of those case of Gameplay>>>Realism where we need to look at setting in broad strokes

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Mole204
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Re: PreWar Bunker(s)

Post by Mole204 » July 24th, 2017, 10:17 pm

Remo wrote:
July 24th, 2017, 3:57 am
No, such cases would be pretty much the exception to the rule. But I think that you shouldn't overestimate secrecy or underestimate poor and desperate in time of need.. Sing with me 'Bunker fever'
Anyway, to me this just one of those case of Gameplay>>>Realism where we need to look at setting in broad strokes
Very true, I was just stuck mulling over "reasons why X would keep finding 5 by 10 concrete blocks." As reason why it would exist in the first place. A sonic key later, and it's a bunker stuffed with Tang packets. Or one super-science device. Or some skeletons in cocktail dresses. I do like the idea of bunkers being "just half-buried by ground-contact bombs". Everyone would just stop at the "oh it's a bomb crater" step, not knowing that there was a bunker somewhere under the crater ring. You can assume the bases might be a cinderblock garage or something, but I would also assume there was some way to get some beyond-top-secret files out of Base Cochise or Sleeper Base indicating otherwise. All the super-tech in WL1 would have had a development phase, a trail of prototypes too expensive to destroy, and ways that tech could be used differently. The self-healing crystal wall, might there be a way to pair that up with concrete? It might look a bit mica though.
I agree, people will swarm whatever promises them salvation, no matter how insane or bald-faced-lie it is. But in a post-war world they'd have to go back to raising food and the wandering off would leave some pretty permanent population dip. Wl1 did have enough reason why they'd fail. Mutants, animals, robots, radiation, traps, mines, pitfalls, rivers, etc etc. Bunkers being purposefully placed out in the middle of nowhere and intentionally camouflaged, they might just go unnoticed. Without camouflage, a chainlink fence wouldn't keep no-longer-armed (out of ammo) people out forever, but the right robot would be enough to scare them away and soak up all their irreplaceable bullets.
Gameplay is paramount. Not enough realism and you get attacked by balloon animals armed with exploding twinkies. Too much "realism" and you get the sort of tryhard edgelord emo that poison any top-down rpgs with guns, duck hunter camo, and rust on everything. No fun left.

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