Base Management

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fuzzyballs01
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Base Management

Post by fuzzyballs01 » July 1st, 2017, 8:46 am

I used the search bar, there isn't a topic for this idea yet so here we go

So here's somewhat of a suggestion, I love me some RPG's with a base management system
it doesn't have to be much, just start out with two ranger squads, send them on missions (like find supplies, take out a target, help out a small community, recruit skilled people to build more squads, collect a tagged weapon/medical/ammo/food supply which your ranger squad tagged), level them up earned mission XP and equip them better with found equipment, pick stats to upgrade even maybe? but like small, don't select every bit of every character, just select if you want to put it into power, survival or skills, which will increase the success chance depending on which stat is required for which mission

and the menu should be simple to use and easy, and you could even do something while your ranger squad out in the field like a squad which reached a location, radio-ing you for advice on how to proceed, maybe even send out two squads to two different locations for one mission to increase the chance of success like one squad with a higer power skill sets up an ambush for enemies, to lure them out of their base while another squad goes to attack the now weaker base

basically just let me send out ranger squads to go do things and improve themselves and get some loot for myself please and thank you
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seriously though it's a suggestion, think it over

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Re: Base Management

Post by Remo » July 1st, 2017, 1:33 pm

I am still not sure what they are going for with WL3. But given the rise from the ashes theme, the rebuilt ranger base would be a great opportunity to offer a sense of progression and make Colorado feel less static. (Also don't forget the damn radio!)

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Grohal
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Re: Base Management

Post by Grohal » July 1st, 2017, 3:04 pm

As long as the base is close to Baldurs Gate 2/Neverwinter Nights 2 and far away from Fallout 4 I'd say they are on the right track.
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Re: Base Management

Post by Remo » July 1st, 2017, 6:16 pm

Grohal wrote:
July 1st, 2017, 3:04 pm
As long as the base is close to Baldurs Gate 2/Neverwinter Nights 2 and far away from Fallout 4 I'd say they are on the right track.
In what respect? BG2 guilds (and NWN2 castle to an extent) was essentially standalone static location with dummy NPCs, so in this regard they can and should learn from FO4!

Personally, I would love something like Pillars of Eternity stronghold, but that actually feels integral to the game and not as some afterthought minigame.. I want to see the Ranger Base and the Rangers grow by our actions, I would like to see the base facilities expand as we secure more resources/personnel/tech/whatever. With more of the same little touches we already seen in WL2 in ranger base e.g. guy working on the fence, recruits training, teams leaving, background chatter/comments etc just in the new rise from the ashes theme.
Last edited by Remo on July 1st, 2017, 8:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Base Management

Post by Grohal » July 1st, 2017, 7:51 pm

Remo wrote:
July 1st, 2017, 6:16 pm
Grohal wrote:
July 1st, 2017, 3:04 pm
As long as the base is close to Baldurs Gate 2/Neverwinter Nights 2 and far away from Fallout 4 I'd say they are on the right track.
In what respect? ...
1. Fallout 4 is a building settlement/shooter-mix with a bit of RPG attached to it. They should concentrate on RPG and make base building/management not as dominant/big part as in Fallout 4.
2. Well BG2 was a long time ago, but hadn't you a castle back there too? You could also build it up not through setting some shitty bad fitting pieces (looking at you FO4), but through text decisions. And on top of that you had to made decisions about the people serving in the keep (like how to handle a deserter or a silver stealing maid etc.).
3. Yeah it was handled ok in POE, but should still be vastly improved. That was no master piece and felt nailed crudly on the rest of the game.

I like base management/building but InXile should concentrate on the wastelandish aspects of the game - and that's everything but.
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Re: Base Management

Post by Drool » July 1st, 2017, 10:43 pm

If I have to run back to the bloody thing every twenty minutes to defend or repair it, I'm not going to bother.
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Re: Base Management

Post by Remo » July 2nd, 2017, 1:23 am

Grohal wrote:
July 1st, 2017, 7:51 pm
I like base management/building but InXile should concentrate on the wastelandish aspects of the game - and that's everything but.
Often the problem with such games is that they don't feel reactive, changing based on what you do, because work to flesh all the location/interactions to reflect that would take away from fleshing out the rest of the game. But this can be achieved in other ways, WL2 did a good job with Ranger base briefings and radio broadcasts to update on your progress and bring the world alive. And to that extent the Ranger base, our new home/foothold in Colorado (and main quest hub I assume), is the perfect opportunity to show the immediate effect of your choices through out the game.

Mind you pretty much everything I am thinking has already seen to some extent in WL2. Various parts of the Ranger base has become accessible as the plot progressed, we had various interaction with base personnel and ranger teams, recruits/items showed in the messhall/gallery, and few flavor events etc. I just want them to expand on that reflecting our new reality, starting as pioneers forging our place on the Colorado frontier, and offer us more verity visually and otherwise for the many times we will be revisiting that location as the plot progress.

Now, I am not sure what pops to your mind when someone says 'base management' **. Personally i don't see inxile implementing a free form base building. And I am not sure that they should actually add base building per see (like in NWN2/POE) because all the above can be done through quests..

** You guys should really separate games and your gaming preferences from specific mechanics in them. Because whether FO4 is shooter-mix has no bearing on us at all.. and btw its my understanding that their settlement building mechanic was optional as much as the stronghold was in POE, you could easily ignore it (which many did) or even side with one of the other 3 factions and have them hostile toward you. And btw even though FO4 is an Openworld Action-RPG I have strong suspicion that it still would have more content, story, and different path/ways to finish the game than WL2.. soo.. lets restrict ourselves to only what is applicable to us.

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Re: Base Management

Post by fuzzyballs01 » July 2nd, 2017, 1:54 am

you guys don't ge the point
it's a whole seperate thing, you could upgrade the walls and see it visually, but you don't need to go and help out, you're one squad, the citadel has a garisson
the only result would be more or less damage, it's completely self sufficient, but there have to be upgrades you buy with loot other squads find (or bring back after you find a location with say building materials or food or medical supplies) so you have a sense of moving forward and not just having a static repetitive minigame

as for sending out the squads? I was thinking like a Fallout shelter type thing, pick a mission from the list, select a squad, upgrade them maybe (could maybe use an XCOM-like squad equipment screen) and send them out for however long they have to, counter works offline too
when they get there, they might ask for info on how to proceed so you get different or more or less loot if you get it right, and then they return which takes half as long as getting there
and when they come back, you collect the loot and they'll have an R&R winding down timer before you can send them out again
and as you upgrade the radio room, you can send out more squads, like a max of 8 at a time while you can have a max of 12 squads at a time, matter of fact, the squads inside the base on R&R and those you can't send out because you reached the limit would help with base defence if needed
like, you could even build a training room(s) to increase attributes of rookie squads

and since I'm going for an XCOM 2 type loadout screen, why not handpick squads? squadsize upgrades from 4 to 7 (like in W2)
missions could be finding new recruits, or you could find them out in the world and send them over with like a Final Fantasy X-type blitzball player stats screen so you can choose if you want them
and the squad cohesion mod is one of the best mods for XCOM 2, so rangers who stay in the same squad get bonusses but if one of them die they all need a triple amount of R&R and when you replace a weak member (or if he/she dies) the squad cohesion gets reset




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Re: Base Management

Post by sear » July 2nd, 2017, 6:56 am

Grohal wrote:
July 1st, 2017, 3:04 pm
As long as the base is close to Baldurs Gate 2/Neverwinter Nights 2 and far away from Fallout 4 I'd say they are on the right track.
We'll detail the Ranger Base at a later date, but as we've spoken to previously, we're targeting more of mission hub and story-based upgrade approach, rather than spending resources, assigning peons, etc. We're definitely drawing inspiration from games like XCOM at times, both for combat and other gameplay elements, but Wasteland is still an RPG and has a different focus.

P.S. Baldur's Gate 2 comes up very frequently in design meetings and is one of George Ziets' favorites. ;)
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Re: Base Management

Post by fuzzyballs01 » July 2nd, 2017, 9:56 am

if you're doing a Pillars of Eternity thing where you don't HAVE to upgrade the base apart from that one tutourial bridge, most people probably won't
an extra menu that you spend like 2 minutes in getting everthing set up every hour of gameplay, send squads out (could even do a generic gather resources instead of actual missions), upgrade rooms, equip squads, create squads
something simple, but something you regularly use, that's going to add a lot of extra gameplay

I'm not asking for a competely second game with tons of information, variety, fully fleshed out screens and 3D locations, just a small bonus to the game to make it more interesting, but not something you have to do to finish the game

I dare you
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Re: Base Management

Post by Remo » July 2nd, 2017, 10:29 am

fuzzyballs01 wrote:
July 2nd, 2017, 1:54 am
you guys don't ge the point
That because we don't know what they are planing todo with it.. so I am going more with what I think they should do with it, rather than how they should do it.

Presumably we start with one Ranger team in a Beater, which was dispatched to Colorado in ordered to establish contact with the Patriarch. We will end up in command of the new base with the goal to train a new force of Colorado Rangers, and prevent his nation from falling apart. Presumably as time progress we will recruit new Ranger NPC and the usual verity of merchant and base personnel, expanding our capabilities with time (like better vehicles).

Given @Sear comment, I think its unlikely that they have broken into JA2/XCom-ish theme, so generally the player will only be able to control one team (like in WL2) built around the core (4?) people sent to Colorado in the first place. But with them working on multiplayer it might lead to some interesting ideas.
sear wrote:
July 2nd, 2017, 6:56 am
We'll detail the Ranger Base at a later date, but as we've spoken to previously, we're targeting more of mission hub and story-based upgrade approach, rather than spending resources, assigning peons, etc.
Which is exactly how it is handled in WL2 ( I am counting the prison and helipad sections as story-based "upgrade"s.)
sear wrote:
July 2nd, 2017, 6:56 am
P.S. Baldur's Gate 2 comes up very frequently in design meetings and is one of George Ziets' favorites. ;)
Any chance for a hint in what that involve? Because it seems to me that WL2 Ranger citadel did a better job as base in every respect compared to BG2 strongholds.. Unless you are looking at ways to improve it as a mission hub i.e. offer more than just pick up some painkillers, batshit and scrap, or is it something else?

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Re: Base Management

Post by Mole204 » July 2nd, 2017, 11:44 am

I hope it's a base, and not one of those "build a shed into mini-castle! Choose your interior decorations, etc etc." sort of base. I would have loved to have a place to drop off Vax the Disappointingly Fragile. But in WL2 I got into the habit of having loot bag heaps at a safe location be my 'base'. Movable, liquidatable for cash, usually with a merchant and healer stationed there, a supply dump for all those heavy rockets. Since the storage box inside the Ranger Citadel was so laggy, this was the best thing. Thankfully the programmers let us put things on the ground and it'd stay there, instead of dropped=deleted, or left and returned = gone. Perhaps we could have a base with a scanner, or a radar console? One of the pre-war army equipment spots that can detect things. Not that there's many airplanes at the time. Still wondering what they're going to do with Cheyenne Mountain. Now _that_ place will be stocked.

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Re: Base Management

Post by Dork Mage » July 2nd, 2017, 4:30 pm

Remo wrote:
July 2nd, 2017, 10:29 am
fuzzyballs01 wrote:
July 2nd, 2017, 1:54 am
you guys don't ge the point
Given @Sear comment, I think its unlikely that they have broken into JA2/XCom-ish theme, so generally the player will only be able to control one team (like in WL2) built around the core (4?) people sent to Colorado in the first place. But with them working on multiplayer it might lead to some interesting ideas.
Not keeping track but isn't the beginning of the game the 'lone ranger... chosen one' and the ranger team is built up in Colorado by the lone PC and not a pre-existing (still living) team shows up?

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Re: Base Management

Post by Remo » July 2nd, 2017, 4:43 pm

^ All I know (and want to know) about the game plot came from the design doc they posted somewhere here.. It quite possible that I am not well informed or misinterpreted something, but I am pretty sure never there was no mentions of the 'lone ranger', and recalling the fierce opposition to 'choose one' gameplay with WL2 I doubt the team mechanic will be changed in WL3. In either case we are digressing from the thread purpose.

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Re: Base Management

Post by fuzzyballs01 » July 3rd, 2017, 12:54 am

Dork Mage wrote:
July 2nd, 2017, 4:30 pm
Not keeping track but isn't the beginning of the game the 'lone ranger... chosen one' and the ranger team is built up in Colorado by the lone PC and not a pre-existing (still living) team shows up?
why would they go from a 4-man squad you can custom build to just the 1 ranger?
why would they talk about "your rangers", plural if they planned on doing a one man squad, why would the Rangers even send one guy instead of a 4-man squad

also this is going off topic
get back to base building or slaps will happen
not happy slaps

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Re: Base Management

Post by Grohal » July 3rd, 2017, 1:13 am

For anyone having questions about party size/lone ranger and so on stuff - it is handled here:

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=16270

Spoiler: it is the usual 4 + 3 pretty soon.
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Re: Base Management

Post by Dork Mage » July 3rd, 2017, 8:37 am

Sear states you start out as a single (lone) ranger:
sear wrote:
November 25th, 2016, 5:53 am
Hey guys, thanks for voicing your thoughts. However, you are reading too much into that interview. In Wasteland 3, we're still building on Wasteland 2's party-based system and giving you the ability to create and customize Rangers. The main difference is we're planning for you to start out as a single character, before forming a full party out of created characters and companions.
So a 4-ranger squad doesn't show up in Colorado....

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Re: Base Management

Post by fuzzyballs01 » July 4th, 2017, 9:38 am

tutourials don't really count though
if this character A) dies or B) sets up the base for you to play as Alpha Squad, you can't say "you start the game with one character" if you don't get to play said character after the tutourial

btw when do the wasteland 3 backer tags come

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Re: Base Management

Post by Remo » July 9th, 2017, 10:13 pm

Mole204 wrote:
July 2nd, 2017, 11:44 am
I hope it's a base, and not one of those "build a shed into mini-castle! Choose your interior decorations, etc etc." sort of base. I would have loved to have a place to drop off Vax the Disappointingly Fragile. But in WL2 I got into the habit of having loot bag heaps at a safe location be my 'base'.
That what we always been doing in such games. But stash locations make more sense when you play as lone wanderer in the wasteland not as a proper base for our Ranger team (**)

Since this time around we don't have the might of the Rangers and their Citadel behind us but play as single outfit, sent into Colorado to reestablish the Rangers, starting with next to nothing and salvage is still king baby.. That whole 'shed into mini-castle' scenario makes a lot of sense. Now, I don't care whether we actually build it or its built around us, I just don't want to wait for the end slides to see the effect of our choices as we progress through the game.

Also I would love to see some of that "interior decorations". Usually the way base building is handled is with a simple static location that they unblock parts of it as we progress, which makes sense for them in terms of resource usage. But I always hope to they would add some fine details to interior and small touches with animations (like that guy in WL2 who would end up painting the fence) to make the place feel more alive.

(**) Hopefully that with inclusion of vehicles they will bring some thing like PoE stash mechanics to elevate the need for such stashes at all.

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Re: Base Management

Post by Mole204 » July 9th, 2017, 11:39 pm

There's too much reliance on having a base. That's Fallout gameplay. There was no base in Wl1. You either had to fix it yourself (with the handy time-passing healing, thank the Not A Bug god) or you had to keep going until you could get to the town that had a healer.
For me, wherever you had water, was a base. Getting a healer, or a merchant was bonus. Like in LA. If not, the base of the day was a good place to make the trip to one. Having animations will likely mess up something. The storage box in wl2 (for pcs) was so laggy, I'd advise against animations in wl3.

I wonder if there's places you could get a kitchen remodeling done? Granite tabletops, or kitchen counters. Serving food off the side of a mountain. _Cheyenne_ mountain.
Or are we going to have the whole party stuffed into an improbably Tardis RV?

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