A really great example of putting attributes to use

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Kattekwaad
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A really great example of putting attributes to use

Post by Kattekwaad » June 11th, 2017, 6:51 am

I've created a topic before on whether Intelligence should be the god-stat for determining the amount of skill leveling and we had a nice discussion on it.
Then I came across this little gem of a CRPG called Underrail. For those of you who've already played it, I personally think that the devs there did a stellar job on which attribute affects which skill-set.

It won't help creating this super intelligent nerd as he just won't be agile/strong enough to push certain stats as their main governing factor for leveling is not intelligence.

Certain perks cannot be unlocked if your attributes or even skill stats, in some cases, are not high enough. This does make sense to me quite a bit as I cannot really see a heavy hitting dumb melee character unlocking a science-oriented perk.

Outside of combat, the game offered a lot of perception/agility/strength checks that can be used in conversations to get the edge on the situation such as stabbing a dude (Agility check) to initiate combat in your favour etc.

Anyways, a good game while we wait for WL3.

Remo
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Re: A really great example of putting attributes to use

Post by Remo » June 11th, 2017, 8:13 am

I think its much more realistic system than the common Intelligence = moar-skill-points feel good system ( I believe that even Bethesda changed that to just faster learning ). I can't say if said system would benefit wasteland3, but I agree Underrail is nice game that has a very old school feel to it.

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Woolfe
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Re: A really great example of putting attributes to use

Post by Woolfe » June 11th, 2017, 5:40 pm

Yep the Int = More Skill points is an issue that has been argued a lot... And your suggested fix has been bandied around a bit as well :-)
It's not too late. Make it Eight!

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sear
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Re: A really great example of putting attributes to use

Post by sear » June 12th, 2017, 3:56 pm

Both I and other devs on the team played Underrail, it's a super cool game and there's a lot to like in it.

We haven't nailed down the effects of our attributes for Wasteland 3 yet, but I agree that making Intelligence the main determinant of your number of Skill Points presents some balance issues we need to be careful about. There's definitely a lot we can do with new features like Perks and Combat Abilities to make Intelligence (and other attributes) valuable, too.

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Gizmo
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Re: A really great example of putting attributes to use

Post by Gizmo » August 17th, 2017, 10:04 pm

sear wrote:
June 12th, 2017, 3:56 pm
We haven't nailed down the effects of our attributes for Wasteland 3 yet, but I agree that making Intelligence the main determinant of your number of Skill Points presents some balance issues we need to be careful about. There's definitely a lot we can do with new features like Perks and Combat Abilities to make Intelligence (and other attributes) valuable, too.
Characters can have natural aptitudes that contribute to skill selection/ and advancement. In some cases their natural athletic ability could allow them to excel at athletic skills. Not unlike a parallel seen with musical education. There are musicians that that are self taught masters—that can't read sheet music... and there are musicians that are formally educated; capable—perhaps even despite lacking a natural talent for it.

In practice (hypothetically) these could be examples of PCs with the same (or markedly similar) skills, acquired by different means (either different stats, or personal background)... Could be Int or Dex, forced piano lessons, or force of will.

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Lakstoties
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Re: A really great example of putting attributes to use

Post by Lakstoties » August 18th, 2017, 8:24 am

I'm on the side of decoupling skills points from Intelligence. When you break down the math and look at characters as they develop, physically orientated characters that should be amazing at certain things, can NEVER catch up to someone who just has heaps of skill points to override all their stats with skills. Skill points derived from Intelligence just creates another "win" stat and you have do A LOT of strange tweaks and counter-intuitive balancing schemes to counteract that.

Ran into this when mucking around with creating my own tabletop RPG. I gave up on the whole skill points from intelligence thing a LONG time ago. Now, you just get progression points and buy skill points for a branch of skills with an exchange rate determined by the primary contributing attributes.

In terms of the Wasteland 2 system, every time you level, everyone gets the SAME number of skill buying points. Now, the cost to increase the skill or the effective amount a skill gets boosted is determined by your attributes that contribute to towards the skill. This makes stats count, gets rid of the skill points from intelligence pitfall, and allows for building more varied characters without game mechanics eventually screwing you over for doing so.

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