Random Map Generator for Random Encounters

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Crosmando
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Random Map Generator for Random Encounters

Post by Crosmando » May 31st, 2017, 2:14 am

I think this is pretty self-explanatory, it was pretty odd getting encounters on the world map which used the same maps over and over.
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Re: Random Map Generator for Random Encounters

Post by crimsoncorporation » May 31st, 2017, 10:06 am

Yes, easily the single most fixable weakness of Wasteland 2. Random encounters are far too frequent to be this repetitive.

it would also be an excellent opportunity to have the community contribute maps for random encounters. Should be pretty easy to optionally be able to include them, and would enhance the game experience so much.

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Re: Random Map Generator for Random Encounters

Post by undecaf » May 31st, 2017, 9:23 pm

Random map generator for random encounters
I wouldn't oppose. Potentially quite interesting if there's enough terrain types to draw from.
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Remo
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Re: Random Map Generator for Random Encounters

Post by Remo » June 1st, 2017, 3:17 am

I wouldn't mind more verity in terms of world-map Random encounters.

I am open to the idea of random Map generator. Although I only seen those in much more tactical heavy games with more open maps ( where few set pieces are picked and rotated to fit a larger one ) Maybe just adding few extra maps for verity and the ability to mod new maps will be easier todo and offer more verity for us in the long run ?
Last edited by Remo on June 1st, 2017, 7:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Random Map Generator for Random Encounters

Post by kilobug » June 1st, 2017, 7:07 am

It would great if implemented well, but I'm also looking to more diversity in the kind of random encounters, not just fights. Like encountering two opposite groups fighting (caravan attacked by raiders, bandits attacked by wild animals, ...) and being able to chose side, watch, kill them all.

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sear
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Re: Random Map Generator for Random Encounters

Post by sear » June 1st, 2017, 10:10 am

One of our goals for Wasteland 3 is to have more interesting world map encounters. We have discussed randomly generated scenes, as well as individual elements within scenes, such as cover objects, or buildings. However, we're also hoping to do more hand-crafted content and more unique encounters, and that could mean simply producing more specific scenes so there's less repetition than in Wasteland 2. One issue with random elements is that there is increased potential for bugs, so it could be simpler to have a wider variety of hand-built scenes instead.

We're not sure what the balance between those things is just yet - that could mean relatively less randomness than Wasteland 2 had, or more.

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Re: Random Map Generator for Random Encounters

Post by Nexus » June 1st, 2017, 2:52 pm

IANAD (I am Not A Developer) but I work with a lot of them and am in IT. I can certainly see how random encounter maps in this engine could be a nightmare for bugs. But even more variety in regards with hand built map definitely would be nice

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Re: Random Map Generator for Random Encounters

Post by Zombra » June 2nd, 2017, 1:13 pm

Handcrafted encounters are great of course, but I don't expect the team to make every map encounter unique, or even most of them.

Procedural maps would be great but the idea seems pretty resource intensive for what after all will be "just more combat". I expect combat in W3 to be fun, but a whole new map every time won't really be necessary in my opinion. I think exploding the number of maps to choose from, and allowing different enemy types on every map, will be sufficient. Fighting raiders on Map #22 will be different from fighting coydogs on the same map. Maybe the game could even track which enemies appeared on which maps already and create some variety that way.

Then again, even after playing XCOM 2012 quite a bit I never got sick of the maps, so maybe I'm just an easy audience.
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Re: Random Map Generator for Random Encounters

Post by undecaf » June 2nd, 2017, 3:25 pm

Zombra wrote:
June 2nd, 2017, 1:13 pm
what after all will be "just more combat".
Maybe there should be more creativity put in the encounters.

Wasteland 2 already suffered from too much samey combat-grind (not necessarily due to the raw amount of combat but rather how it was composed and paced, and also for the comparative lack of other forms of gameplay to balance the scale out).
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Re: Random Map Generator for Random Encounters

Post by Zombra » June 2nd, 2017, 3:44 pm

undecaf wrote:
June 2nd, 2017, 3:25 pm
Zombra wrote:
June 2nd, 2017, 1:13 pm
what after all will be "just more combat".
Maybe there should be more creativity put in the encounters.

Wasteland 2 already suffered from too much samey combat-grind (not necessarily due to the raw amount of combat but rather how it was composed and paced, and also for the comparative lack of other forms of gameplay to balance the scale out).
More creativity in encounter design would be welcome, of course. Even better would be more complexity put into the combat system itself. (How about destructible cover and proper attention paid to heavy/area effect weapons/explosives? What about adding true z-axis maneuvering?) But in any case, I am fine with a certain amount of "combat grind" in Wasteland. I like that some RPGs are moving in the direction of "fewer, more meaningful combat encounters" ... but this just isn't appropriate for Wasteland in my opinion. I want to see this series continue true to its blood-soaked roots. I want to play through a thousand minor variations on a fun combat theme. Repetition doesn't scare me if the thing being repeated is fun. (It was also great that Wasteland 2's Outdoorsman skill generally allowed me to avoid random combats if I felt like it. Usually I fought, but if it got too repetitious I could just skip it.)

The thread topic of course is procedural/random map generation. Even if I fight hundreds of fights in Wasteland 3, I'm OK with only 1/3 of those being "set pieces" on handmade exploration maps and the other 2/3 being scattered on 40 static, meaningless "random encounter maps". For me, procedural generation for random enc maps won't likely add enough interest to be worth the development time necessary.

This is based in part on my time with XCOM (2012) and XCOM 2. XCOM 2 has procedural generation, and it's cooler than the static maps of XCOM 1, but it isn't such a big improvement that I would have missed it if they hadn't bothered.
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Re: Random Map Generator for Random Encounters

Post by undecaf » June 3rd, 2017, 6:16 am

Zombra wrote:
June 2nd, 2017, 3:44 pm
undecaf wrote:
June 2nd, 2017, 3:25 pm
Zombra wrote:
June 2nd, 2017, 1:13 pm
what after all will be "just more combat".
Maybe there should be more creativity put in the encounters.

Wasteland 2 already suffered from too much samey combat-grind (not necessarily due to the raw amount of combat but rather how it was composed and paced, and also for the comparative lack of other forms of gameplay to balance the scale out).
More creativity in encounter design would be welcome, of course. Even better would be more complexity put into the combat system itself. (How about destructible cover and proper attention paid to heavy/area effect weapons/explosives? What about adding true z-axis maneuvering?) But in any case, I am fine with a certain amount of "combat grind" in Wasteland. I like that some RPGs are moving in the direction of "fewer, more meaningful combat encounters" ... but this just isn't appropriate for Wasteland in my opinion. I want to see this series continue true to its blood-soaked roots. I want to play through a thousand minor variations on a fun combat theme. Repetition doesn't scare me if the thing being repeated is fun. (It was also great that Wasteland 2's Outdoorsman skill generally allowed me to avoid random combats if I felt like it. Usually I fought, but if it got too repetitious I could just skip it.)

The thread topic of course is procedural/random map generation. Even if I fight hundreds of fights in Wasteland 3, I'm OK with only 1/3 of those being "set pieces" on handmade exploration maps and the other 2/3 being scattered on 40 static, meaningless "random encounter maps". For me, procedural generation for random enc maps won't likely add enough interest to be worth the development time necessary.

This is based in part on my time with XCOM (2012) and XCOM 2. XCOM 2 has procedural generation, and it's cooler than the static maps of XCOM 1, but it isn't such a big improvement that I would have missed it if they hadn't bothered.
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Re: Random Map Generator for Random Encounters

Post by fuzzyballs01 » June 17th, 2017, 6:58 am

honestly, XCOM 2 praises itself on randomised maps but it's always one of three location types (nature, decrepid or sterile) and they're always divided into a few blocks which can a handful of different "building blocks" to create a map
and that gets old too, going through the same handful of varieties over and over

if you make randomised maps, make it good

I mean yeah, it beats pre-made maps in XCOM EW, but only because the pre-made maps weren't that many, again just a handful


and since we're talking about randomising, why not randomise encounters too? 95% was just killing bad guys or animals, we need more traders, wounded people you can heal for a reward, animals you can calm down for a rancher, I'm just saying, tone down on the combat encounters and increase the whole "be the helpful rangers" encounters

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