No level cap

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obsidian-blade
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No level cap

Post by obsidian-blade » March 26th, 2017, 3:54 pm

That sounds good to me ... it may take forever to level up but at least i still feel like i am accomplishing something and not wasting my time playing ... lol ..

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Re: No level cap

Post by migelpig » April 9th, 2017, 3:41 am

The Tallest wrote:
April 10th, 2012, 6:29 am
Agreed. Also, don't make it so we level too quickly. FO3, NV, SKYRIM (though not as much), Oblivion and countless other games are guilty of this. You exit your first dungeon and you've leveled two or three times.
Mostly agree although I prefer the Torment lvling system a lot (4 small lvl ups, then a big gamechanging one)

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Re: No level cap

Post by Drool » April 9th, 2017, 8:42 pm

Personally, I don't much care how that sort of mechanic works. Milestone levels are fine with me. But if there's going to be unlimited combat (and random encounters means endless combat), then I don't want a level cap, regardless of how exponential the curve becomes. Needing 10000 combats to level to 51 is fine. Having every random encounter at 50 literally be nothing but a waste of time and resources isn't.
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Zombra
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Re: No level cap

Post by Zombra » April 9th, 2017, 9:05 pm

Thread necromancy! For a minute I thought krellen had returned to the forums :)

Level caps are dumb. Let's not have any such foolishness in Wasteland 3. Make it a geometric progression after 50, I don't care, but once a character stops earning xp they turn into some kind of weird zombie.
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Re: No level cap

Post by Grohal » April 10th, 2017, 1:58 am

Amen to Drool & Zombra. :D
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Re: No level cap

Post by sear » April 17th, 2017, 4:45 pm

I split the thread out since it seemed like it was talking about Wasteland 3.
Zombra wrote:
April 9th, 2017, 9:05 pm
Level caps are dumb. Let's not have any such foolishness in Wasteland 3. Make it a geometric progression after 50, I don't care, but once a character stops earning xp they turn into some kind of weird zombie.
I seem to recall it being pretty uncommon to reach level 50 in Wasteland 2 without a ton of grinding. Was that not your experience?

(That said, I tend to agree that it can be frustrating to cap out and not have anywhere to grow, especially if it happens too early in the game.)

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Re: No level cap

Post by Zombra » April 17th, 2017, 5:14 pm

sear wrote:
April 17th, 2017, 4:45 pm
I seem to recall it being pretty uncommon to reach level 50 in Wasteland 2 without a ton of grinding. Was that not your experience?

I don't remember how far my whole party got, but I had a high-Charisma utility character who hit 50 way before the endgame. Like, for the last three towns she was just sitting at 50. I think one or two other "normal" characters also hit 50 before the final fight but I don't really remember.

Maybe for a typical munchkin assault rifle party this wouldn't happen as Charisma was popularly seen as a dump stat, but for me it was a big disappointment.

Anyway, if it's supposed to be uncommon for anyone to reach the cap, why have the cap at all? Like I said, just make it a geometric progression after the you hit the "soft cap" so higher levels are astronomically difficult to reach. That's far less demoralizing than simply saying, "No more xp for you no matter what, you're done."
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Re: No level cap

Post by Drool » April 17th, 2017, 10:52 pm

sear wrote:
April 17th, 2017, 4:45 pm
I seem to recall it being pretty uncommon to reach level 50 in Wasteland 2 without a ton of grinding. Was that not your experience?
I finished the vanilla version around level 45 or so.

Also, it should be mentioned that having a NG+ mode with a level cap 3-5 levels from where you'll likely be really makes the NG+ kinda pointless. I think I played about one hour in NG+ before deciding it wasn't worth it.
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Re: No level cap

Post by Woolfe » April 19th, 2017, 8:46 pm

Yep... Level Cap... seems dumb. If someone really wants to grind and grind and grind, let them.. but for everyone else assume lower.
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Re: No level cap

Post by Grohal » April 20th, 2017, 3:49 am

sear wrote:
April 17th, 2017, 4:45 pm
...
Zombra wrote:
April 9th, 2017, 9:05 pm
Level caps are dumb. Let's not have any such foolishness in Wasteland 3. Make it a geometric progression after 50, I don't care, but once a character stops earning xp they turn into some kind of weird zombie.
I seem to recall it being pretty uncommon to reach level 50 in Wasteland 2 without a ton of grinding. Was that not your experience?

(That said, I tend to agree that it can be frustrating to cap out and not have anywhere to grow, especially if it happens too early in the game.)
Even if if takes - literaly - years of grinding from some level onward, it just never should stop artifically.
It just fills like a frustrating wall you can't get over.

If one player wants to do a fight with level 15 chars that is normally done by level 5 chars - let him. :mrgreen:

And to answer your question about grinding experience: not really on SJ, my whole party was 50 little over half of California. I confess I love grinding from time to time, to just get some skill up before a certain encounter (not necessarily combat). And it never feels like labor for me. :)
If you can make combat more varied and interesting in WL3 then in WL2 I guess I'll even grind some more. I just love to have my rangers in combat situations (and of course stretching the games I enjoy a bit). :mrgreen:

One last thing: even grinding shouldn't be a no-brainer. You also need to make the enemies in WL3 more dangerous then they were in WL2.
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Re: No level cap

Post by Drool » April 20th, 2017, 10:59 pm

As a compromise, I will accept a level cap of 183...
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Re: No level cap

Post by GodComplex » April 24th, 2017, 2:18 pm

Bethesda puts level caps in their games. Does anyone want to be like Bethesda? I think not.
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Re: No level cap

Post by Jozape » April 24th, 2017, 5:00 pm

Drool wrote:
April 17th, 2017, 10:52 pm
sear wrote:
April 17th, 2017, 4:45 pm
I seem to recall it being pretty uncommon to reach level 50 in Wasteland 2 without a ton of grinding. Was that not your experience?
I finished the vanilla version around level 45 or so.
I never reached the level cap but I got close too in my first playthrough; most of my characters were in the mid 40s. I only had one high intelligence character.

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Re: No level cap

Post by Drool » April 24th, 2017, 11:00 pm

GodComplex wrote:
April 24th, 2017, 2:18 pm
Bethesda puts level caps in their games. Does anyone want to be like Bethesda? I think not.
The much-hated Fallout 4 and Skyrim didn't have level caps. Thus not having level caps is being Bethesda, and nobody wants that.
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Grohal
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Re: No level cap

Post by Grohal » April 25th, 2017, 2:35 am

Drool wrote:
April 24th, 2017, 11:00 pm
GodComplex wrote:
April 24th, 2017, 2:18 pm
Bethesda puts level caps in their games. Does anyone want to be like Bethesda? I think not.
The much-hated Fallout 4 and Skyrim didn't have level caps. Thus not having level caps is being Bethesda, and nobody wants that.
Nobody wants Bethesdas games? I wish it were this way.
But the reason Bethesda gets hate from some francise-fans is not about level cap. :mrgreen:
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Re: No level cap

Post by sear » April 25th, 2017, 2:15 pm

GodComplex wrote:
April 24th, 2017, 2:18 pm
Bethesda puts level caps in their games. Does anyone want to be like Bethesda? I think not.
I've seen people mention that no level cap in those games reduces the consequence of character building. Seems like it goes both ways depending on who you ask or the game in question. :lol:

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Zombra
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Re: No level cap

Post by Zombra » April 25th, 2017, 2:19 pm

sear wrote:
April 25th, 2017, 2:15 pm
GodComplex wrote:
April 24th, 2017, 2:18 pm
Bethesda puts level caps in their games. Does anyone want to be like Bethesda? I think not.
I've seen people mention that no level cap in those games reduces the consequence of character building. Seems like it goes both ways depending on who you ask or the game in question. :lol:
I can see that point of view, but disagree that an arbitrary level cap is the best way to do it. If you train a player for 50 hours that battles earn xp which leads to skill points and whatever, it's weak to say in hour 51, "OK, that's not true any more." I agree that build limitations can be a good thing, but they have to be conceptually integrated from early in the game.

I actually didn't even know there was a level cap in Wasteland 2 until my skill monkey stopped earning xp.
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Re: No level cap

Post by paultakeda » April 25th, 2017, 3:46 pm

If there was LBD, you could make it such that when you hit a certain level skills start to drop unless you keep using them. It becomes XP for skill retention versus leveling. :twisted:

(hey, I played Sword of the Samurai, which planned on a game where you needed to sire a son in the higher difficulties to rank up to shogun, and getting old in that game meant losing skill level, not to mention if you have a son too early they take over at middle age and already have no potential, so this isn't a new idea -- it just isn't really one that works for Wasteland)

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Re: No level cap

Post by Woolfe » April 25th, 2017, 5:04 pm

sear wrote:
April 25th, 2017, 2:15 pm
GodComplex wrote:
April 24th, 2017, 2:18 pm
Bethesda puts level caps in their games. Does anyone want to be like Bethesda? I think not.
I've seen people mention that no level cap in those games reduces the consequence of character building. Seems like it goes both ways depending on who you ask or the game in question. :lol:
Fallout 3, I spent a lot of time roaming around finding stuff. I finally started the main campaign, and hit the level cap... pretty much stopped playing after that. The Main campaign wasn't interesting enough to keep me going, and the lack of levelling to push my forward resulted in me not giving a damn anymore...
It's not too late. Make it Eight!

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Re: No level cap

Post by SagaDC » April 25th, 2017, 9:02 pm

Well, not that I'm ever really eager to leap to Bethesda's defense (other than, perhaps, for Far Harbor) but it's worth noting that they dropped the level limits with Skyrim and Fallout 4. Skyrim essentially had no level cap, and Fallout 4 had a level cap so high that you're unlikely to ever actually reach it without cheating.

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