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A few suggestions/ideas

Posted: April 14th, 2017, 9:53 am
by Crosmando
- Don't reinvent the wheel, take CLASSIC, the skills, perks and quirks, and the combat system generally and use that as a base; so add more onto that. There's nothing wrong with this approach, build on what you have already.

- Remember that Wasteland is SCI-FI, please don't fall into the trap of going for some ultra-realist post-apocalypse. Don't be afraid to get crazy in concepts and so on.

- Please make WL3 COMPLETELY OPEN-WORLD, none of this crap like Arizona/LA gating of content.

- You should be able to create your ENTIRE party right from the beginning, companions should just be something you can do if you decide to make less characters at the beginning.

- Mutations would be a really good idea, not only would they fit into the theme/lore of WL but they would be an interesting way to customize your character, having things like giant claws increase your melee abilities, etc. I imagine a novel way to get these would be finding certain mutant monsters across the game, killing them, and making some kind of mutant injection. As your character becomes more mutated (and horrifying) their Charisma score would decrease.

Re: A few suggestions/ideas

Posted: April 14th, 2017, 11:33 pm
by Drool
Crosmando wrote:
April 14th, 2017, 9:53 am
- Don't reinvent the wheel, take CLASSIC, the skills, perks and quirks, and the combat system generally and use that as a base; so add more onto that. There's nothing wrong with this approach, build on what you have already.
I'd rather they threw that in a fire and rebuilt from MSPE.
- Please make WL3 COMPLETELY OPEN-WORLD, none of this crap like Arizona/LA gating of content.
Especially not blocky squares of radiation fields. LA was especially bad with this.

Re: A few suggestions/ideas

Posted: April 15th, 2017, 8:48 am
by sear
Thanks for the feedback! As a designer I can't comment too much on specific systems and mechanics, because those are still very much in discussion. However, I would suggest you check out our vision doc on the game here, it'll give you a sense of where we are taking things: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3LlgO ... 85TUE/view

Re: A few suggestions/ideas

Posted: April 16th, 2017, 9:19 am
by ogi79
I would add IMPLANTS. That fits perfectly to the world. Implants ,are ofcours hard to get and expensive to upgrade .Also,if you do many implants , you loose point in Charisma .That would enhance RPG features. Also ,if possible ,your face/body would change after you make medical procedure and implant implants .

Re: A few suggestions/ideas

Posted: April 16th, 2017, 10:48 am
by Crosmando
ogi79 wrote:
April 16th, 2017, 9:19 am
I would add IMPLANTS. That fits perfectly to the world. Implants ,are ofcours hard to get and expensive to upgrade .Also,if you do many implants , you loose point in Charisma .That would enhance RPG features. Also ,if possible ,your face/body would change after you make medical procedure and implant implants .
Good idea, can't believe I didn't think of this. Especially considering implants and cybernetic modifications etc were very important to the CotC storyline in WL2.

Re: A few suggestions/ideas

Posted: April 16th, 2017, 11:04 am
by SagaDC
I would have loved to see cybernetic implants and/or prosthetics in Wasteland 2, but obviously that wasn't ideal given the direction the story took. In the end, it would have just led to a lot of people complaining as their best Rangers suddenly turned against the rest of their team (though it might have made for an interesting, alternate ending if the entire squad ended up defecting as a result).

But perhaps it will be an option in Wasteland 3.

Though I will stress that if the loss of Charisma is suggested as a negative side effect of excessive implants, then Charisma itself really needs to be more important in Wasteland 3 than it was in Wasteland 2 (where it served almost no significant purpose).

Re: A few suggestions/ideas

Posted: April 17th, 2017, 8:03 am
by paultakeda
Drool wrote:
April 14th, 2017, 11:33 pm
I'd rather they threw that in a fire and rebuilt from MSPE.
Literally the one thing, if I could choose but one thing, I would advocate: Bring back the D6 saving throw mechanic of WL-MSPE.

Re: A few suggestions/ideas

Posted: April 17th, 2017, 4:47 pm
by sear
ogi79 wrote:
April 16th, 2017, 9:19 am
I would add IMPLANTS. That fits perfectly to the world. Implants ,are ofcours hard to get and expensive to upgrade .Also,if you do many implants , you loose point in Charisma .That would enhance RPG features. Also ,if possible ,your face/body would change after you make medical procedure and implant implants .
There was something a bit like this in Torment. I have no idea if it's in the cards for Wasteland, but I know it has come up once or twice in discussions.

Re: A few suggestions/ideas

Posted: April 18th, 2017, 4:12 am
by Amon Ra
Implants would be interesting, especially if they required maintenance of some sort to keep "optimal", especially in such oppressive conditions. Or would certain implants work better because it's cold, the environment effectively being a giant server room...?

Re: A few suggestions/ideas

Posted: April 22nd, 2017, 7:29 am
by Crosmando
Drool wrote:
April 14th, 2017, 11:33 pm
Crosmando wrote:
April 14th, 2017, 9:53 am
- Don't reinvent the wheel, take CLASSIC, the skills, perks and quirks, and the combat system generally and use that as a base; so add more onto that. There's nothing wrong with this approach, build on what you have already.
I'd rather they threw that in a fire and rebuilt from MSPE.
I actually managed to find a pdf of MSPE and the system really isn't anything to write home about, I agree that d6 system can lead to some unpredictability but then again so can d20.

Re: A few suggestions/ideas

Posted: April 22nd, 2017, 1:01 pm
by Grohal
Maybe you could add some non-lethal (or more exactly not only-leathal) weapons (like chains, wips etc.) to capture some "named" NPCs. Maybe even doing some special "dead or alive"-missions. Bounty hunting missions, if done well, could bring some depth and life to the world.

These missions could even be handled like the keep-quests in Pillars of Eternity (in which you could send one spare companion on the road), if it is to complicated putting them into the combat system.

Show some lowlives a better way to live and maybe make some of them usable chars for the base (as we don't know how the daily base business is handled yet, they could even only be used to give some boni to whatever resources we get - fuel, food or modifications for armors and weapons - the possibilites are endless here) or a few even could end up as recruitable NPCs to join the party once redeemed.

WL2 gave some lore about that some rangers would have become scavengers or even criminals if the rangers hadn't recruited them, so I think it would fit pretty well into the world. :)

Re: A few suggestions/ideas

Posted: April 22nd, 2017, 8:39 pm
by Drool
Crosmando wrote:
April 22nd, 2017, 7:29 am
I actually managed to find a pdf of MSPE and the system really isn't anything to write home about, I agree that d6 system can lead to some unpredictability but then again so can d20.
Well, it doesn't have to be MSPE specifically, but that style that works with learn by doing and skill points. CLASSIC was a half-assed attempt to ape SPECIAL and it failed miserably.

Re: A few suggestions/ideas

Posted: April 26th, 2017, 10:06 am
by Crosmando
sear wrote:
April 17th, 2017, 4:47 pm
ogi79 wrote:
April 16th, 2017, 9:19 am
I would add IMPLANTS. That fits perfectly to the world. Implants ,are ofcours hard to get and expensive to upgrade .Also,if you do many implants , you loose point in Charisma .That would enhance RPG features. Also ,if possible ,your face/body would change after you make medical procedure and implant implants .
There was something a bit like this in Torment. I have no idea if it's in the cards for Wasteland, but I know it has come up once or twice in discussions.
You should consider mutants/implants, because in a game without the magic spells etc of fantasy games you need more areas for character customization, WL2 had this problem in that there wasn't a lot to combat except weapons, and most of the skills were purely non-combat.

Re: A few suggestions/ideas

Posted: April 26th, 2017, 8:35 pm
by undecaf
Just please don't go ahead and try to design some sort stupid "radiationmagic" or "special powers" or go overboard with some "telekinesis/fireball implants" to account for the lack of fantasy magic... Keep things at least somewhat grounded. OK?

Re: A few suggestions/ideas

Posted: April 27th, 2017, 12:41 am
by Crosmando
undecaf wrote:
April 26th, 2017, 8:35 pm
Just please don't go ahead and try to design some sort stupid "radiationmagic" or "special powers" or go overboard with some "telekinesis/fireball implants" to account for the lack of fantasy magic... Keep things at least somewhat grounded. OK?
Wasteland was always crazy though, it was never as "grounded" as Fallout.

Re: A few suggestions/ideas

Posted: April 27th, 2017, 1:30 am
by undecaf
Crosmando wrote:
April 27th, 2017, 12:41 am
undecaf wrote:
April 26th, 2017, 8:35 pm
Just please don't go ahead and try to design some sort stupid "radiationmagic" or "special powers" or go overboard with some "telekinesis/fireball implants" to account for the lack of fantasy magic... Keep things at least somewhat grounded. OK?
Wasteland was always crazy though, it was never as "grounded" as Fallout.
Yeah, I know. It was even too much at times, but what appealed to me with it was that even in its craziness it somehow managed to feel somewhat "earthly" (as I suppose it was meant to, too, since it actually was earth) and a game that deep down didn't want to be a DnD game with magic-, wizard-, and mysticism substitutes with different aesthetics.

Re: A few suggestions/ideas

Posted: April 27th, 2017, 4:33 pm
by Woolfe
Radangels....

Re: A few suggestions/ideas

Posted: April 28th, 2017, 4:54 am
by Crosmando
Woolfe wrote:
April 27th, 2017, 4:33 pm
Radangels....
I've always wondered what those things were... Were they some kind of entity composed of radioactive energy?

Re: A few suggestions/ideas

Posted: April 28th, 2017, 6:31 am
by Grohal
Crosmando wrote:
April 28th, 2017, 4:54 am
Woolfe wrote:
April 27th, 2017, 4:33 pm
Radangels....
I've always wondered what those things were... Were they some kind of entity composed of radioactive energy?
I think they just were heavily radiated humans - the other side of the Fallout ghouls so to speak.

Re: A few suggestions/ideas

Posted: April 28th, 2017, 10:12 am
by paultakeda
Crosmando wrote:
April 22nd, 2017, 7:29 am
I actually managed to find a pdf of MSPE and the system really isn't anything to write home about, I agree that d6 system can lead to some unpredictability but then again so can d20.
I haven't paid attention to WL2's (and presumably WL3's) combat system after seeing the percentage signs showing up a la Fallout. Is there a thread or site somewhere that explains the nitty gritty of how the percentage is calculated?

Right now, when you see 0% when attempting to use a skill, in combat or otherwise, is it really 0%? What does 1% mean? What about 99%?

One of the things I recall finding interesting about WL-MSPE (I don't know if the PDF you found was for MSPE or WL-MSPE) was the saving throw mechanic coupled with the chance for additional rolls to increase success.

I'm going to make an assumption that WL2's percentage display means there is one and only one RNG roll to check against that percentage.

WL-MSPE's mechanic was 2d6 where rolling snake eyes meant catastrophic failure (2.8% chance), and automatic failure (roll 3) at 5.6%. Beyond that, you rolled the dice and the sum was added to the modifiers based on attributes and skills to try and equal the to-hit number for a given objective.

Something like STR 10 + Brawling 8 = 18, plus 2d6 roll of 7 = 25. If the to-hit was 25, then you hit. I do not remember if WL-MSPE then used the same roll to check for damage (hitting 25 on 25 means 0 damage, even if you hit, whereas rolling 27 meant 2 points of damage).

But the fun part was that if the RNG (which would run twice on 2d6) rolled a double (1 in 6 chance, but you don't want snake eyes so it's really 5/36), you got to roll again. And always rolling doubles always let you roll again.

I once posited that if this were implemented that it would be fun to see the hover display show "Roll 30", and when you attacked the text window would actually show the rolls so you could see what happened (MOD 16 + 4/4 + 3/7 = 34: HIT!).

This meant that even in a situation where the to-hit was, say, 30, and your modifiers only got 16, you would in no way be able to achieve 30 with 2d6. But if you rolled a double, you could then roll another set and go for 30.

Conversely, if you had modifiers totaling 25 and the to-hit was 20, obviously it looks like you are going to hit and do major damage: but rolling a 3 or less meant that no matter how overpowered there would always be an 8.4% of failure (imagine the consternation of only ever seeing 91.6% and never any higher). However, there's a 13.8% chance of rolling a non-snake-eyes double. Having each roll of 2d6 have percentages at 8.4% and higher feels like a far more dynamic, unpredictable, and yes, nutty system. Having it that even if you rolled a double and got a second roll, but that second roll has a 2.8% of rolling snake eyes and causing catastrophic failure (I forget if failure also came from rolling a 3 on a successive roll), sounds like insanity. And yet, that was WL-MSPE; and we all had fun playing that one, right?