Multiple Squads, Single Player

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Zombra
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Multiple Squads, Single Player

Post by Zombra » February 7th, 2017, 11:14 am

Still trying to get some traction on this idea.

Wasteland 3 is being built ground-up with multiple (two) squads in mind for multiplayer. All the architecture will be there for asynchronous play, meaning each squad can be played at separate times and there is no need for both players to be on at once. Technically this means that a single person could run two instances of the game and play two squads, switching back and forth between them.

inXile, please officially support this playstyle.
I don't want to have to pull any chicanery or "cheat" in order to enjoy something you're building right into the game. All it will require from you is acknowledgement and UI integration.

There are already games out there that support a single player controlling multiple squads. A few examples:
* The original Wasteland, of course! You could split the party and move them as far apart in the world as you wanted. It didn't work that great because you could still only have 7 characters, but it was cool.
* Jagged Alliance 2 is a more modern example. You could have literally dozens of individual characters moving in separate squads around the game world. The core gameplay was essentially the same as in Wasteland 2, with real-time RPG interaction and turn-based combat on 2.5D maps. Like Wasteland 3 will be, JA2 was built ground-up to support this style and it was cool as hell.
* Adventure Construction Set is an older example that used a very simple system of switching back and forth between PCs or parties on different maps. You could have one character running around Map #1 for a while and then the game would say "Meanwhile on Map #2" and switch to another PC in a different zone. Then when the characters got together again it would go back to alternating turns between them on the same map. It worked beautifully.

Asynchronous multiplayer is a fantastic idea. Applying the same principles to single-player is also a fantastic idea. It has been done and it is proven to be fun. You're already building 90% of what is needed. Please consider finishing that last 10% for players like me.
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Re: Multiple Squads, Single Player

Post by kilobug » February 7th, 2017, 2:36 pm

Sounds a great idea to me - I don't have the slightest interest in multiplayer and will never use it, but if the multiplayer arch can be leveraged to allow such kind of gameplay for single-player, that sounds promising ! :)

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Re: Multiple Squads, Single Player

Post by Quesswhatugoing » February 10th, 2017, 7:37 am

I thought they would be making it like Divinity Original Sin where 2 players take part through the story together on the same squad. If they did something like that I think it would be awesome.

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Lord of Riva
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Re: Multiple Squads, Single Player

Post by Lord of Riva » February 10th, 2017, 7:45 am

i wouldnt mind a game like this. But isnt there a pretty great difference by how you control 2 squads in MP and 2 squads in SP?

i also do think that both players are allowed to make different decisions this would be kinda awkward in SP wouldnt you say?

so what im trying to say is that asynchronous MP and multiple squads in SP are two vastly different things design wise, although i actually prefer less MP and more SP :P

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Re: Multiple Squads, Single Player

Post by Gizmo » February 10th, 2017, 8:25 am

Zombra wrote:Still trying to get some traction on this idea.

Wasteland 3 is being built ground-up with multiple (two) squads in mind for multiplayer. All the architecture will be there for asynchronous play, meaning each squad can be played at separate times and there is no need for both players to be on at once. Technically this means that a single person could run two instances of the game and play two squads, switching back and forth between them.

inXile, please officially support this playstyle.
This is the very premise of the Disciples series; D1, D2, D3, D3.5?

The player is effectively a Monarch/Patriarch in control of a large racial clan; practically a small country, and they send out as many hero squads as they can afford. Each squad has it's own turn during the day; each can explore the wilds (within their specific range), invade a town, or ancient site; or engage an enemy. If they want snappier gameplay, having 18 squads in the field gives you 18 turns at a time [outside of combat encounters], and all the while the player improves and expands their stronghold [Ranger HQ :twisted: ] each day, as they slowly carve out a nation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uo7cfeMucXE

Parallels can be drawn between the Disciples overland map, and the WL2 overland map; as well as the random combat encounters on each.

**Interestingly, the ruler's background matters in the game. A warrior will marshal their armies differently than a mage, or a rogue; and each is able to provide unique services to them. A Warrior king's troops heal up in the field, a Rogue king has a five-fingered discount, and can send lone operatives into an city to cause insurrection and /or sickness & disease. Mage kings cast more spells than any other.

Disciples 2:gold https://www.gog.com/game/disciples_2_gold

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Re: Multiple Squads, Single Player

Post by Zombra » February 10th, 2017, 9:34 am

Lord of Riva wrote:i wouldnt mind a game like this. But isnt there a pretty great difference by how you control 2 squads in MP and 2 squads in SP?
Not when asynchronous play is built into the design from day one. Asynchronous means the two players don't have to be online at the same time. So Alvin can log in Monday and play Squad Alpha for a while, then log out. Then on Tuesday, Billy can log in and play Squad Beta for a while, then log out, and so on. I want to log in on Monday and play Squad Alpha for a while, then log in Tuesday and play Squad Beta for a while. This is the exact same game whether it is one player or two ... but there may be interface issues like having to start the game at the same time or unnecessary silliness like this unless inXile is thoughtful about it.
Lord of Riva wrote:i also do think that both players are allowed to make different decisions this would be kinda awkward in SP wouldnt you say?
Chris Keenan said that the game content will be exactly the same in single-player and multiplayer. The decision making stuff will be things like: Alvin goes to Dog Canyon and blows everything up. Then Billy goes to Dog Lover Village where some survivors blame the Rangers and attack them. If I'm playing single-player, I can blow up Dog Canyon, then go to the settlement (with the same squad or a different squad) and get attacked. The only difference is that Billy (the player sitting in the chair) might be surprised by what Alvin did.

I see no reason why two squads, operating at different times, must be controlled by two different players.
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Re: Multiple Squads, Single Player

Post by Gizmo » February 10th, 2017, 9:39 am

Zombra wrote:I see no reason why two squads, operating at different times, must be controlled by two different players.
I've seen at least one racing game where the other drivers are the player's previous attempts at the track. ;)

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Lord of Riva
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Re: Multiple Squads, Single Player

Post by Lord of Riva » February 10th, 2017, 11:25 am

fair enough Zombra, as said i dont mind it at all in general. Lets see what we will get ;)

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Re: Multiple Squads, Single Player

Post by Gizmo » March 27th, 2017, 10:06 pm

If the game supports two squads concurrently, could it not support two squads in singleplayer?

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Re: Multiple Squads, Single Player

Post by sear » March 28th, 2017, 9:57 am

Gizmo wrote:
March 27th, 2017, 10:06 pm
If the game supports two squads concurrently, could it not support two squads in singleplayer?
We'll be exploring that possibility!

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Zombra
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Re: Multiple Squads, Single Player

Post by Zombra » March 28th, 2017, 12:06 pm

!!!!!!!!! This is a huge deal !!!!!!!!!
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Thanks sear!
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Re: Multiple Squads, Single Player

Post by Jozape » March 28th, 2017, 3:30 pm

sear wrote:
March 28th, 2017, 9:57 am
Gizmo wrote:
March 27th, 2017, 10:06 pm
If the game supports two squads concurrently, could it not support two squads in singleplayer?
We'll be exploring that possibility!
Super news! I really hope you go all the way to implementing that possibility. I'll find a way to abuse the multi-player regardless if you don't though. :D

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Re: Multiple Squads, Single Player

Post by undecaf » March 29th, 2017, 5:20 am

Might provide some interesting dynamic to the single player if the 2nd party (should it make it in the SP game) could be opted to be put out on AI, where it would randomly or semi-randomly (possibly even by player choice of behavior) choose where to go and what to do (solve a quest to one end or another or just check a place out and leave) at certain timed intervals or mimicing the players progress (for it to not play the game the player is supposed to). Maybe - if the game recognizes passage of time this time around - it could even be called to aid with a situation at a set date (and they come if they aren't occupied at the time or if they don't get caught up on something, or perhaps they don't like you and lie that they'll arrive :twisted: ).
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Re: Multiple Squads, Single Player

Post by Gizmo » March 29th, 2017, 5:29 am

Imagine a one squad running a gauntlet, depending on the other squad [somewhere else] disabling defenses, or unlocking a gateway; where failure means capture or death of the squad in the gauntlet.

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Re: Multiple Squads, Single Player

Post by Grohal » March 29th, 2017, 5:59 am

Even if this would not be true to the original:
there are always changes that improve a series, and the potential of multiple squads in single player is great at least. :mrgreen:
Look at how Jagged Alliance 2 handled this - I think it was possible all those years back. :)
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Zombra
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Re: Multiple Squads, Single Player

Post by Zombra » March 31st, 2017, 9:27 am

Grohal wrote:
March 29th, 2017, 5:59 am
Even if this would not be true to the original

Actually, in Wasteland (1988), you could split the party into multiple squads and send them to opposite ends of the world map, or even split every character into his own "team", send them to seven different cities, and switch between them with a single button press!
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Re: Multiple Squads, Single Player

Post by Grohal » March 31st, 2017, 9:52 am

Zombra wrote:
March 31st, 2017, 9:27 am
Grohal wrote:
March 29th, 2017, 5:59 am
Even if this would not be true to the original

Actually, in Wasteland (1988), you could split the party into multiple squads and send them to opposite ends of the world map, or even split every character into his own "team", send them to seven different cities, and switch between them with a single button press!
I know, but I thougt this multiple squad thing for part 3 is about more then 7 chars. Like my normal squad of 4 +3, + extra guys I send elsewhere or as an support for the first squad, like it would be with two players. Maybe I understood this wrong.
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Zombra
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Re: Multiple Squads, Single Player

Post by Zombra » March 31st, 2017, 11:45 am

Grohal wrote:
March 31st, 2017, 9:52 am
Zombra wrote:
March 31st, 2017, 9:27 am
Grohal wrote:
March 29th, 2017, 5:59 am
Even if this would not be true to the original

Actually, in Wasteland (1988), you could split the party into multiple squads and send them to opposite ends of the world map, or even split every character into his own "team", send them to seven different cities, and switch between them with a single button press!
I know, but I thougt this multiple squad thing for part 3 is about more then 7 chars. Like my normal squad of 4 +3, + extra guys I send elsewhere or as an support for the first squad, like it would be with two players. Maybe I understood this wrong.

No, you're absolutely right. The goal here is to enable two full squads that operate independently for single-player. But this would be closer to the original (in this regard) than W2 was :)
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Re: Multiple Squads, Single Player

Post by fuzzyballs01 » April 4th, 2017, 10:22 am

this sounds like a great idea, now instead of having one squad, I can make a copy paste squad and split the xp down the middle

how would that even work for co-op, I still don't know, you both have to move around together? one guy gets a pause screen while the other moves? you both just play seperately and can see eachother? but then if you go to the same location you suddenly get 2 full squads and every battle becomes an easy win? do both players get their own enemies which then both spawn when you are both in the same area?

putting co-op into a game like this is going to ruin a good story because you'll need filler missions to stay busy and get xp and loot
remember the Skyrim randomised, repeatable quests? go there, kill that, come back except not instead of a bit of backstory, you get none?



aaaanyways, I know what I want in a squad and they'll just be a copy paste but with different character names and bios, all the RPG elements are just going to be the same for me, so why bother getting a second one

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Re: Multiple Squads, Single Player

Post by ApocalypseMan » April 4th, 2017, 10:59 am

fuzzyballs01 wrote:
April 4th, 2017, 10:22 am
how would that even work for co-op, I still don't know, you both have to move around together? one guy gets a pause screen while the other moves? you both just play seperately and can see eachother? but then if you go to the same location you suddenly get 2 full squads and every battle becomes an easy win? do both players get their own enemies which then both spawn when you are both in the same area?
This kind of reminds me of FOnline. People have TB encounters all the time while other players are running around do other things in RT. Although, since FOnline has a PVP environment, someone that has TB mode selected can enter your encounter and now you have two players in one encounter. I can see this type of system being implemented for coop.
Wasteland is harsh 8-)

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