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Please, no Xcom-style scatter move

Posted: January 26th, 2017, 2:29 am
by Kattekwaad
Hi,

I've just watched the Wasteland 3 trailer showing the combat with the rangers and the Hard Heads and I hope I am wrong with what I saw. When combat started, the enemy units also seem to get that bs 'extra move' that get them into a nice combat position and then, more often than not, get to move again effectively giving them 2 moves before you get to do anything.

This is a combat game-breaker for me and destroys the immersion. I think it was just laziness from Firaxes to give enemy units a 'scatter' move just to make the game more difficult whilst there are different ways of doing so but would require more intelligent AI.

Please don't do this. Fallout 1, 2 and Wasteland 2 didn't have it. Tell me to calm down if I am wrong but that is a deal breaker for me.

M

Re: Please, no Xcom-style scatter move

Posted: January 26th, 2017, 9:51 am
by Zombra
Right again Kattekwaad. Don't calm down :) I just looked at the trailer again and you're right, that is some bullshit. The enemy all gets a free move to jump into cover leaving the Rangers standing around like idiots. The Rangers standing around like idiots was already a problem in Wasteland 2 (no formation system). Let's not compound it in Wasteland 3.

Re: Please, no Xcom-style scatter move

Posted: January 26th, 2017, 9:54 am
by SagaDC
I've been playing a lot of XCOM 2 lately (since the Long War 2 mod just got released), and I love the game. But, that said, I absolutely agree that the "pre-battle scramble" is obnoxious. In extreme cases, it gives enemies up to four actions in a single turn, which completely destroys the "rules" of the game just for the sake of an artificial sense of challenge. Normally I would say that challenge is a good thing, but not when the game has to essentially cheat to achieve that challenge.

I (barely) tolerate it in XCOM, but I certainly don't want to see it in Wasteland 3.

EDIT - But, that said, the video for Wasteland 3 is a mock-up based on concepts, not actual in-game footage that's demonstrative of how things will actually end up working, so I'm not sure how much we can read into it.

Re: Please, no Xcom-style scatter move

Posted: January 26th, 2017, 1:14 pm
by sear
The combat in the video was meant to illustrate roughly what we're going for with the game, but we weren't trying to show enemies getting a free "starting move" or anything too specific about the mechanics. That said, the feedback is noted!

Re: Please, no Xcom-style scatter move

Posted: January 26th, 2017, 1:44 pm
by Kattekwaad
sear wrote:The combat in the video was meant to illustrate roughly what we're going for with the game, but we weren't trying to show enemies getting a free "starting move" or anything too specific about the mechanics. That said, the feedback is noted!
Glad to hear that!

I don't think that an enemy getting the first move, especially the enemy engaging in conversation, is necessarily a bad thing. Some enemies might have had it in for your characters at the beginning of he conversation and used the chat as a distraction to gain his/her element of surprise. Perhaps this could be a fine example of how a combo of Perception/Int/Agility checks could work in you getting the first go in any case judging from how the conversation is going (int), the enemy's body language (per) and how quickly you can react to turn the situation in your favour (agi)

Random thought :)