Seven Character Party (4+3)

Discussion about the upcoming Wasteland 3!

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Zombra
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Seven Character Party (4+3)

Post by Zombra » December 9th, 2016, 3:19 pm

Well, sooner or later this is going to become a big deal, so I figured I'd get out in front of it with a dedicated thread.

While we now know that Wasteland 3 will be a true party-based game, with multiple created PCs and no "Chosen One" (thank god), we still don't know what the exact party composition will look like, and it's important. We can assume, we can guess; but I don't like to guess.

When party numbers were announced for Bard's Tale 4 last year, the forums rocked with astonishment. Instead of the expected 6-8, it was announced that there would only be 4 PCs in the party. This led to a major uproar, and eventually inXile responded, increasing that number to 5. (Thank you inXile. Not perfect, but better.)

This time around, let's get it right from the beginning. Wasteland 1 had four fully created PCs with room for 3 companions. Wasteland 2 had four fully created PCs with room for 3 companions. For Wasteland 3, let's have ... four fully created PCs with room for 3 companions.

The sooner we hear from inXile that the formula isn't changing, the better.

On a personal note, if something must slide ... [let it be companion slots. Sorry devs everywhere, the characters I create are more important to me than your fascinating companions. I'd rather have 4 created characters and NO companions than have my PC slots reduced.]

But that shouldn't be necessary, because 4+3 is returning. Right? Right?

Your comments below.
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Re: Seven Character Party (4+3)

Post by Drool » December 9th, 2016, 10:16 pm

Zombra wrote:On a personal note, if something must slide ... let it be companion slots. Sorry devs everywhere, the characters I create are more important to me than your fascinating companions. I'd rather have 4 created characters and NO companions than have my PC slots reduced.
Agreed. I usually play Wasteland with just my four. I only keep the +3 in WL2 because the skill system all but requires it.
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Re: Seven Character Party (4+3)

Post by Grohal » December 10th, 2016, 5:20 am

I also throw my hat in the ring for 4+3.
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Re: Seven Character Party (4+3)

Post by Woolfe » December 10th, 2016, 6:19 am

Needless to say, I agree totally with Zombra.
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Re: Seven Character Party (4+3)

Post by marceror » December 10th, 2016, 8:30 am

4 + 3 - Signed

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Re: Seven Character Party (4+3)

Post by ogi79 » December 10th, 2016, 2:09 pm

Agreed

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Re: Seven Character Party (4+3)

Post by Lord of Riva » December 11th, 2016, 1:44 am

while its not that important for me, other than the decades old prequel which i dont mind to have changed, at least WL2 brought this into a recent game and is for me canon.

This is not a "spiritual successor" or "modernisation" topic, its rather what expect from a direct sequel for a game released a few years ago.
So i would assume most people would expect 4+3 so im also all in for it i guess.

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Re: Seven Character Party (4+3)

Post by Moagrim » December 19th, 2016, 11:16 am

There is no reason to fix something that is not broken is what comes into my mind on this matter. 4+3 works well and I see no reason as to why to change it apart from just for the purpose of changing it and doing it for that purpose would be rather pointless.

Additionally if you want to get all the available skills you pretty much need the 4+3. Anything less than that and you really need to start putting a lot of stat points into int to get more skill points per level up.

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Re: Seven Character Party (4+3)

Post by Chestertonite » January 23rd, 2017, 5:06 am

Moagrim wrote:There is no reason to fix something that is not broken is what comes into my mind on this matter. 4+3 works well and I see no reason as to why to change it apart from just for the purpose of changing it and doing it for that purpose would be rather pointless.

Additionally if you want to get all the available skills you pretty much need the 4+3. Anything less than that and you really need to start putting a lot of stat points into int to get more skill points per level up.
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Re: Seven Character Party (4+3)

Post by Grampybone » January 26th, 2017, 1:35 am

I wonder how difficult would it be to have an option of absolutely no direct control over your party, just the main character.
Like in Fallout 1 and 2.

Clearly, this would be a nightmare for pedantic tacticians, but it would add a certain aspect of unpredictability and thus make encounters more reactionary.

I imagine to code this would be even worse nightmare...

I don't feel like this is a good post anymore.

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Re: Seven Character Party (4+3)

Post by kilobug » January 26th, 2017, 2:06 am

Grampybone wrote:I wonder how difficult would it be to have an option of absolutely no direct control over your party, just the main character.
Like in Fallout 1 and 2.

Clearly, this would be a nightmare for pedantic tacticians, but it would add a certain aspect of unpredictability and thus make encounters more reactionary.
I would personally hate it (not having control over companions is a very frustrating part of Fallout 1/2 to me) and I consider myself a "pedantic tactician" ;) But as long as it's fully optional, I don't care.
Grampybone wrote:I imagine to code this would be even worse nightmare...
Probably not that much, since they already have an IA to handle the "bad guys" and the non-party followers (like the robots you can repair/subdue in WL2). But I might very well underestimate some factor.

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Re: Seven Character Party (4+3)

Post by Grohal » January 26th, 2017, 4:12 am

Grampybone wrote:I wonder how difficult would it be to have an option of absolutely no direct control over your party, just the main character.
Like in Fallout 1 and 2.

Clearly, this would be a nightmare for pedantic tacticians, but it would add a certain aspect of unpredictability and thus make encounters more reactionary.

I imagine to code this would be even worse nightmare...

I don't feel like this is a good post anymore.
Well in Fallout 1 and 2 you had one char and picked everyone else up later, so it made some sense I guess.
But in WL 3 you create a party - at least over those self-created chars you should have full control. There was some independance for picked up chars in Wasteland 2 as long as the leadership was low and out of range.

They just didn't act very clever so my opinion on this: if you can't do it right, leave it out. :mrgreen:
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Re: Seven Character Party (4+3)

Post by Zombra » January 26th, 2017, 9:38 am

Grampybone wrote:I wonder how difficult would it be to have an option of absolutely no direct control over your party, just the main character.
Like in Fallout 1 and 2.
1) It would be very difficult from a development standpoint. AI is always a big deal, and it seems players are always complaining (perhaps with justice) about stupid enemy AI. Apply that to the player's own characters and you get much more frustration all around.

2) I very much enjoy games with AI allies - in fact I even get a kick out of games with fully automated combat - but this is not an appropriate idea for the Wasteland series. It's too fundamental a change, not quite as extreme as making it a first-person shooter or text-only adventure, but going down that road.

3) This would smack of making W3 a "Chosen One" game, which would be bad. I don't want to have that conversation all over again, but this would be a no-no for the series.
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Re: Seven Character Party (4+3)

Post by Grampybone » January 27th, 2017, 12:17 am

Zombra wrote:
Grampybone wrote: 3) This would smack of making W3 a "Chosen One" game, which would be bad. I don't want to have that conversation all over again, but this would be a no-no for the series.
Not necessarily, there could be an option to swap between characters, but control only one at the time, so a player feels more like being part of the team, instead being the whole team.

But yeah, it's just a shower thought.

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Re: Seven Character Party (4+3)

Post by paultakeda » January 27th, 2017, 11:31 am

Grampybone wrote:
Zombra wrote:
Grampybone wrote: 3) This would smack of making W3 a "Chosen One" game, which would be bad. I don't want to have that conversation all over again, but this would be a no-no for the series.
Not necessarily, there could be an option to swap between characters, but control only one at the time, so a player feels more like being part of the team, instead being the whole team.

But yeah, it's just a shower thought.
The point of Wasteland as a series is to be the whole team. This is like asking the main Halo series to be a squad based game. Do I want a Wasteland spinoff where you get to be the Chosen One? Sure. But leave the main series alone.

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Re: Seven Character Party (4+3)

Post by marceror » January 28th, 2017, 9:31 am

AI controlled party members in a Wasteland game would be a baaaaaaad development. Why is this even being discussed? Do we really need to tempt the bad mojo gods?

Blah, blah blah, yeah, I guess if it were optional....

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Re: Seven Character Party (4+3)

Post by Gecos » February 24th, 2017, 11:42 am

marceror wrote:AI controlled party members in a Wasteland game would be a baaaaaaad development. Why is this even being discussed? Do we really need to tempt the bad mojo gods?

Blah, blah blah, yeah, I guess if it were optional....
Optional is fine, would appease the lazy console crowd.

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Re: Seven Character Party (4+3)

Post by Blindchance » April 20th, 2017, 11:13 am

I see what you did there...still I don't like the possibility that the party size is going to be lowered. Higher number of party members means more tactics involved in combat and (hopefully) more companion related content (missions/interactions etc.) so obviously I support keeping that number as high as possible.

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Re: Seven Character Party (4+3)

Post by Crosmando » April 20th, 2017, 12:36 pm

Gecos wrote:
February 24th, 2017, 11:42 am
marceror wrote:AI controlled party members in a Wasteland game would be a baaaaaaad development. Why is this even being discussed? Do we really need to tempt the bad mojo gods?

Blah, blah blah, yeah, I guess if it were optional....
Optional is fine, would appease the lazy console crowd.
I fear that this is less about the console crowd and more about the Fallout crowd.
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Re: Seven Character Party (4+3)

Post by undecaf » April 20th, 2017, 9:35 pm

About AI controlled partymembers... I think it was a good compromise to have cNPC's go rogue at times. That still allowed them to have a bit of character of their own rather than to be complete and utter puppets of the player. That's what I liked about the AI controlled partymembers of Fallout.
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