I didn't write them down, but after a few tries, I gave up. But I most certainly did run through every zone before leaving for California to grab the containers I missed. Eventually, I learned it just wasn't worth it, itchy fingers or not. Finally picking a lock to find a handful of .38 bullets quickly taught me to not care. I also found that recording the videos helped too, because who wants to watch me save scum?Jimmious wrote:In WL2 I actually wrote on a paper all the containers I couldn't open after like 15 tries(with save scumming) and came back to them later.
Never played. Most games I've played, RPG and otherwise, forbid saving mid-combat. Except RTS games where it's pretty much always combat.Zombra wrote:Hmm, I disagree. The Jagged Alliance series, commonly held as a high water mark in good tactical combat, practically screamed for the player to save scum.
I don't know how much difference that would make. But if just removing the convenience without the functionality is a sufficient bandage...Zombra wrote:It's not about stopping anyone cold; it's about making the barrier reasonably high to discourage abuse.
No offense, but all of those sound awful. Checkpoint saves are the absolute ban of anybody who is busy. Likewise, a time limit again makes saving a matter of the game's convenience as opposed to mine. Limited resource saves and costly saves are both way to meta for my taste; we've had that conversation before.Zombra wrote:Several checkpoints per map... time limit... Making saves a limited resource... Making saves cost resources
Who's petard is this and why am I suddenly hoisted by it? Not what I was angling towards, but your objections seem much less white knighty.Zombra wrote:You want me to come right out and say it? I'll say it.
All that said, I have to admit that this is probably one of the best arguments against scumming that I've seen. I'll even admit that there is a problem here to look at; my contention is just that 99% of the proposed solutions seem to be of the "that's a bad hang nail, we'd better amputate your arm" variety.Zombra wrote:The bottom line is that Skinner Box design is bad and diminishes a good game to those who are susceptible to this kind of encouragement.
I hate myself for giving you ammo, but an idea is and idea and I try to be intellectually honest. I have a time limit save option with in-game rationale that could be expanded/shifted into a token system easily enough that still allows for a "house on fire" save.Zombra wrote:Agreed, but I'll take what I can get. I'm not going to get the actual best solution, which I think would be "typewriter ribbons" (radio batteries?).
First, the panic button: A few handheld Castlevania games used this: you have a "save-and-quit" option. That let's you do your "oh shit, gotta go" save while not allowing it to be used for scumming. The save is removed when you restart.
Your radio battery idea isn't terrible, but with that in-game excuse, I'd prefer a time limit. Our supposed system would eliminate the normal save and replace it with save-on-radio. Whenever you want to save, you radio in and give a "progress report". Do it too often in a time period (one minute? two?) the person on the other end yells at you for tying up the radio with penny-ante updates. That stomps on your scumming while not doing some stupid item. It also gives the panic save.