Wasteland 3: tell us your stretch goal ideas

Discussion about the upcoming Wasteland 3!

Moderator: Ranger Team Alpha

Post Reply
Riond
Initiate
Posts: 1
Joined: December 2nd, 2016, 11:38 am

Re: Wasteland 3: tell us your stretch goal ideas

Post by Riond » December 2nd, 2016, 11:43 am

I would love to see a particular skill/class type thing relating to a party member being a "beast tamer" or something along those lines. Basically having a dog or some other domesticated animal that they command in and out of battle, maybe allowing them to use the animal to reach certain areas human characters cannot normally access depending on the owner level and skills.

SagaDC
Global Moderator
Posts: 3506
Joined: May 2nd, 2012, 5:51 am

Re: Wasteland 3: tell us your stretch goal ideas

Post by SagaDC » December 2nd, 2016, 2:11 pm

Riond wrote:I would love to see a particular skill/class type thing relating to a party member being a "beast tamer" or something along those lines. Basically having a dog or some other domesticated animal that they command in and out of battle, maybe allowing them to use the animal to reach certain areas human characters cannot normally access depending on the owner level and skills.
Honestly, that's probably the sort of thing that the Animal Whisperer skill should have been used for in Wasteland 2. Hopefully if they decide to include the Animal Whisperer skill in Wasteland 3, we'll see it get some expanded functionality and better integration into the rest of the game world.

Piero
Initiate
Posts: 1
Joined: December 6th, 2016, 8:34 am

Re: Wasteland 3: tell us your stretch goal ideas

Post by Piero » December 6th, 2016, 10:12 am

I've been living under a rock so far, or probably out of this beautiful rock (:v?) Anyway, seeing the full screen dialogue animation made me sad. :c Is it possible to add the option to put the animation in the portrait and keep the isometry visible? That would make me happy c:
:cry: :arrow: :D

Kattekwaad
Initiate
Posts: 9
Joined: January 26th, 2017, 2:15 am

Re: Wasteland 3: tell us your stretch goal ideas

Post by Kattekwaad » January 26th, 2017, 3:00 am

stasyan90 covered most but a lack of content was quite apparent for me in WL2. Too many dead areas on the map with hardly anything going on and way too few places to visit and make an impact on.

I wanted to do a bit of xp-farming like you could have done in Fallout 2 by combating more dangerous foes in the South and climb your level a bit but WL2 just didn't really have that.

Would love to see a lot more side quests with similar depth as the Witcher 3 had and scattered a little more around the map instead of the major plot areas.

User avatar
Zombra
Global Moderator
Posts: 6213
Joined: March 8th, 2012, 10:50 pm

Re: Wasteland 3: tell us your stretch goal ideas

Post by Zombra » January 26th, 2017, 9:46 am

Kattekwaad wrote:stasyan90 covered most but a lack of content was quite apparent for me in WL2. Too many dead areas on the map with hardly anything going on and way too few places to visit and make an impact on.

I wanted to do a bit of xp-farming like you could have done in Fallout 2 by combating more dangerous foes in the South and climb your level a bit but WL2 just didn't really have that.

Would love to see a lot more side quests with similar depth as the Witcher 3 had and scattered a little more around the map instead of the major plot areas.
Good post Kattekwaad. I'm with you.

It made me think about something I enjoyed about Wasteland 2 - there were a number of small "one-off" maps. Little places like Rick's RV, Fletcher's hideout, or Silo 7 made the game feel much less like an empty map between huge cities. I would love to see many more of these little locations in Wasteland 3. Big overblown hubs and dungeons are great, but the incidental locations in between really make the world feel like a world and not just a series of set-pieces.
Image

User avatar
Luckmann
Acolyte
Posts: 90
Joined: May 13th, 2012, 4:36 am
Location: Scania
Contact:

Re: Wasteland 3: tell us your stretch goal ideas

Post by Luckmann » February 6th, 2017, 6:01 am

How about stretch-goals for ditching the multiplayer, the dumbed-down "cinematic" voiced dialogue, and the multi-platform idea (and all the inherent issues that comes with that)? Then I'd consider pledging. Wasteland 2 was a good game with serious issues. You should focus on improving that format, not run away from it.
“The pessimist complains about the wind;
the optimist expects it to change;
the realist adjusts the sails.”

User avatar
Woolfe
Supreme Jerk
Posts: 5861
Joined: March 22nd, 2012, 6:42 pm

Re: Wasteland 3: tell us your stretch goal ideas

Post by Woolfe » February 6th, 2017, 3:46 pm

Luckmann wrote:How about stretch-goals for ditching the multiplayer, the dumbed-down "cinematic" voiced dialogue, and the multi-platform idea (and all the inherent issues that comes with that)? Then I'd consider pledging. Wasteland 2 was a good game with serious issues. You should focus on improving that format, not run away from it.
Mulitplatform isn't as hard anymore.

This isn't PS3 days. Console porting has been made a bucketload simpler due to the underlying systems becoming essentially PC's.

The only issues are the control systems, but you can get someone else to do the port for a cut of the profit so who cares.
It's not too late. Make it Eight!

User avatar
Luckmann
Acolyte
Posts: 90
Joined: May 13th, 2012, 4:36 am
Location: Scania
Contact:

Re: Wasteland 3: tell us your stretch goal ideas

Post by Luckmann » February 6th, 2017, 3:51 pm

Woolfe wrote:
Luckmann wrote:How about stretch-goals for ditching the multiplayer, the dumbed-down "cinematic" voiced dialogue, and the multi-platform idea (and all the inherent issues that comes with that)? Then I'd consider pledging. Wasteland 2 was a good game with serious issues. You should focus on improving that format, not run away from it.
Mulitplatform isn't as hard anymore.

This isn't PS3 days. Console porting has been made a bucketload simpler due to the underlying systems becoming essentially PC's.

The only issues are the control systems, but you can get someone else to do the port for a cut of the profit so who cares.
Disregarding the fact that console hardware is trash, the issue isn't the difficulty of porting on the development side, but the inherent limitations of the format and it's impact on game mechanics, controls, and usability.
“The pessimist complains about the wind;
the optimist expects it to change;
the realist adjusts the sails.”

User avatar
Woolfe
Supreme Jerk
Posts: 5861
Joined: March 22nd, 2012, 6:42 pm

Re: Wasteland 3: tell us your stretch goal ideas

Post by Woolfe » February 6th, 2017, 7:45 pm

Luckmann wrote:
Woolfe wrote:
Luckmann wrote:How about stretch-goals for ditching the multiplayer, the dumbed-down "cinematic" voiced dialogue, and the multi-platform idea (and all the inherent issues that comes with that)? Then I'd consider pledging. Wasteland 2 was a good game with serious issues. You should focus on improving that format, not run away from it.
Mulitplatform isn't as hard anymore.

This isn't PS3 days. Console porting has been made a bucketload simpler due to the underlying systems becoming essentially PC's.

The only issues are the control systems, but you can get someone else to do the port for a cut of the profit so who cares.
Disregarding the fact that console hardware is trash, the issue isn't the difficulty of porting on the development side, but the inherent limitations of the format and it's impact on game mechanics, controls, and usability.
I think you have your PC Elite hat on too tight.

Console hardware is not "Trash", indeed one of the main selling points of console hardware is that it is set in stone, and therefore you can eke out every bit of power from it. There are a lot of advantages to the console ecosystem for developers, one of which is the known hardware makes it much easier to port to.

What inherent limitations specifically? Are you referring to the control system? You think this is the first KB/M game that has been translated to console?

Reality is they are different markets that are easily built to accommodate both, either directly during development, or later with fairly simple modifications to the UI.
It's not too late. Make it Eight!

User avatar
Luckmann
Acolyte
Posts: 90
Joined: May 13th, 2012, 4:36 am
Location: Scania
Contact:

Re: Wasteland 3: tell us your stretch goal ideas

Post by Luckmann » February 6th, 2017, 11:55 pm

Woolfe wrote:I think you have your PC Elite hat on too tight.

Console hardware is not "Trash", indeed one of the main selling points of console hardware is that it is set in stone, and therefore you can eke out every bit of power from it. There are a lot of advantages to the console ecosystem for developers, one of which is the known hardware makes it much easier to port to.
This makes the format easier to work with, but it doesn't make it any less trash, and it doesn't solve inherent limitations.
Woolfe wrote:What inherent limitations specifically? Are you referring to the control system?
Many small things, including the control system, yes. Primarily, it becomes an issue of having to reduce mechanics and interface aspects to the lowest common denominator, in order to offer an equal playing experience to all. Since any kind of personal computer & a mouse/keyboard combo can handle so much more and has so many less restrictions on what can be done effectively, this means that PC development is almost always crippled, with the notable exception of a very limited subset of game types (platformers, mostly, or anything with very simplistic control schemes, such as hack-and-slash adventure games).
Woolfe wrote:You think this is the first KB/M game that has been translated to console?
Of course not, don't be ridiculous. If that was true, we wouldn't be aware of the previously stated facts, and could blissfully go on with our lives.
Woolfe wrote:Reality is they are different markets that are easily built to accommodate both, either directly during development, or later with fairly simple modifications to the UI.
No, it's not just a matter of "simple modifications to the UI".
“The pessimist complains about the wind;
the optimist expects it to change;
the realist adjusts the sails.”

User avatar
Woolfe
Supreme Jerk
Posts: 5861
Joined: March 22nd, 2012, 6:42 pm

Re: Wasteland 3: tell us your stretch goal ideas

Post by Woolfe » February 7th, 2017, 2:28 am

Luckmann wrote:
Woolfe wrote:I think you have your PC Elite hat on too tight.

Console hardware is not "Trash", indeed one of the main selling points of console hardware is that it is set in stone, and therefore you can eke out every bit of power from it. There are a lot of advantages to the console ecosystem for developers, one of which is the known hardware makes it much easier to port to.
This makes the format easier to work with, but it doesn't make it any less trash, and it doesn't solve inherent limitations.
Woolfe wrote:What inherent limitations specifically? Are you referring to the control system?
Many small things, including the control system, yes. Primarily, it becomes an issue of having to reduce mechanics and interface aspects to the lowest common denominator, in order to offer an equal playing experience to all. Since any kind of personal computer & a mouse/keyboard combo can handle so much more and has so many less restrictions on what can be done effectively, this means that PC development is almost always crippled, with the notable exception of a very limited subset of game types (platformers, mostly, or anything with very simplistic control schemes, such as hack-and-slash adventure games).
Woolfe wrote:You think this is the first KB/M game that has been translated to console?
Of course not, don't be ridiculous. If that was true, we wouldn't be aware of the previously stated facts, and could blissfully go on with our lives.
Woolfe wrote:Reality is they are different markets that are easily built to accommodate both, either directly during development, or later with fairly simple modifications to the UI.
No, it's not just a matter of "simple modifications to the UI".
So you do understand that the unity engine is designed to be easily portable between the different system os's. It's why there was a Console port of WL2 at all.

Of course there are changes to the UI, but due to the system it is able to be ported and modified to suit relatively easily.

The control system for a turn based game is not dependent on twitch gameplay, so the baseline controls don't really need a lot of modification, the base game can essentially be managed with a controller. Its not ideal, but it does work. Then add to that the capability of Unity to modify elements to suit the os it is going to. Its obviously not a "quick task" there is going to be work to do it. But it isn't the stupendously complex task you are suggesting it is.
It's not too late. Make it Eight!

User avatar
Luckmann
Acolyte
Posts: 90
Joined: May 13th, 2012, 4:36 am
Location: Scania
Contact:

Re: Wasteland 3: tell us your stretch goal ideas

Post by Luckmann » February 7th, 2017, 3:30 am

Woolfe wrote:So you do understand that the unity engine is designed to be easily portable between the different system os's. It's why there was a Console port of WL2 at all.
This is your fundamental misunderstanding, thinking that it's an issue of porting, rather than development.
Woolfe wrote:[...]
But it isn't the stupendously complex task you are suggesting it is.
It's not a stupendously complex task, but the issue is that it all has to work well on all formats. It is not merely an issue of UI limitations, but consider such a thing as individual positioning of characters (such as Baldur's Gate or Pillars of Eternity), instead of having them all go in a straight line after eachother (such as in Tides of Numenera). Things that do not work well on all systems will always get cut or modified, in order for it to actually do so.

This is true for any game, whether it's an RPG or an FPS, it's just that the issues are different; it is no coincidence that many modern FPS-games are limited to exactly 4 weapon slots, even if you can carry a near-infinite number of weapons otherwise, at the cost of jumping into the inventory and navigating multiple menus to switch gear.

Even the change of font and/or UI box style can be a result of the multi-platform format, such as the WL2->WL2:DC change in formatting, from the classic typewriter front that to the much "clearer" font necessitated by sitting several meters away from the screen, similar to what happened to D:OS when it became the D:OS:EE consolized version.

Whether this is a massive change or not doesn't matter; the point is that these considerations are built into the development process, and that they add up over time, resulting in an overall worse experience than necessary. It is, for example, no coincidence that the menues and UI of Tides of Numenera are all of the cover-all bloated and fixed style of Wasteland 2: Definitive Consolization Edition, rather than the superior-for-PC:s centred/scaling style used by pre-DC Wasteland 2 or Pillars of Eternity. This style "works" for both systems, despite being inferior to one that would be made for one or the other.

You either build for one format, or you compromise design standards and visions. This is a truth for the development of anything whatsoever, ever, not just games and not just console vs. PC.

It is no different than niche appeal vs. mass appeal, which is another route inXile is quickly heading down towards, which is the opposite direction of what many that originally funded WL2 and Tides of Numenera wanted it to go. A lot of people funded these things because they were interested in supporting "more of the same", despite not being interested specifically in these games (mostly true for WL2; I think absolutely every classic PC RPG fan wanted a PS:T-type game) and wanted the classic PC RPG niche to make a return.

And here we are now, with WL3 being pitched as a multiplayer multiplatform title with fully-voiced (thus incredibly limited) "cinematic" dialogue interaction, and a Tides of Numenera that has been neutered and cut down and released as a multiplatform title, more reminiscent of a remake of an interactive Tumblr than the promised spiritual sequel to Planescape: Torment, and a development and crowdfunding process severely mishandled by an incommunicative inXile.

Needless to say, a lot of people are not happy, and a lot of people question the direction they're heading, and rightfully so.
“The pessimist complains about the wind;
the optimist expects it to change;
the realist adjusts the sails.”

User avatar
Woolfe
Supreme Jerk
Posts: 5861
Joined: March 22nd, 2012, 6:42 pm

Re: Wasteland 3: tell us your stretch goal ideas

Post by Woolfe » February 7th, 2017, 4:32 pm

Luckmann wrote:
Woolfe wrote:So you do understand that the unity engine is designed to be easily portable between the different system os's. It's why there was a Console port of WL2 at all.
This is your fundamental misunderstanding, thinking that it's an issue of porting, rather than development.
Nope. Based on the fact that they used Unity for WL2 and brought it to console as well, my immediate assumption was that they were always developing for PC but would take into consideration Console portal. Cause you know that makes sense.
Luckmann wrote:
Woolfe wrote:[...]
But it isn't the stupendously complex task you are suggesting it is.
It's not a stupendously complex task, but the issue is that it all has to work well on all formats. It is not merely an issue of UI limitations, but consider such a thing as individual positioning of characters (such as Baldur's Gate or Pillars of Eternity), instead of having them all go in a straight line after eachother (such as in Tides of Numenera). Things that do not work well on all systems will always get cut or modified, in order for it to actually do so.
Rubbish. What part of the difference between console and PC changes pathing? None of that is valid. The only parts that are affected are how you interface with the game. So control system and image. The underlying game itself is the same. It uses the same programming. The only way that changes is if they take advantage of the known hardware in a console to gain performance boosts by using existing api's specific for the hardware. That is not necessary of course, and would be a task of the people porting not InXile.
This is true for any game, whether it's an RPG or an FPS, it's just that the issues are different; it is no coincidence that many modern FPS-games are limited to exactly 4 weapon slots, even if you can carry a near-infinite number of weapons otherwise, at the cost of jumping into the inventory and navigating multiple menus to switch gear.
Nope you are confusing design with gameplay. Do certain designs work better on a Console, sure. But does that mean that is the only reason for choosing them? There are plenty of examples of PC only games that have restrictive weapon slots/inventory etc.
Your assumption is that the only reason for the choice is "Console console console", however with Torment especially combat etc were always secondary to the exploration and story, so in this case it is just as likely a minimalist decision.
Even the change of font and/or UI box style can be a result of the multi-platform format, such as the WL2->WL2:DC change in formatting, from the classic typewriter front that to the much "clearer" font necessitated by sitting several meters away from the screen, similar to what happened to D:OS when it became the D:OS:EE consolized version.
Shrug... not sure what the issue is there. Font's aren't exactly the hardest thing to change. Certainly that would be a fairly simple task in something like Unity. If your issue is that they are choosing a font that supports both right from the design phase... then so. If it looks good why the hell does it matter?
Whether this is a massive change or not doesn't matter; the point is that these considerations are built into the development process, and that they add up over time, resulting in an overall worse experience than necessary. It is, for example, no coincidence that the menues and UI of Tides of Numenera are all of the cover-all bloated and fixed style of Wasteland 2: Definitive Consolization Edition, rather than the superior-for-PC:s centred/scaling style used by pre-DC Wasteland 2 or Pillars of Eternity. This style "works" for both systems, despite being inferior to one that would be made for one or the other.
Fair enough, although as I stated earlier your assumption that it is the only reason for the torment game is flawed.
But even taking that into account, they double their market share by selecting the style that works. No one ever stated that it would be Windows/Mac/Linux only.
If they can get it into the "mobile" Market, which the menus also fit, they could triple the market (well not exactly as not every unit in the mobile market could play it).

I have no issue with that. I knew what I was getting when I got into it.
You either build for one format, or you compromise design standards and visions. This is a truth for the development of anything whatsoever, ever, not just games and not just console vs. PC.
Rubbish. How is the design compromised. What parts of the game have been lost?
It is no different than niche appeal vs. mass appeal, which is another route inXile is quickly heading down towards, which is the opposite direction of what many that originally funded WL2 and Tides of Numenera wanted it to go. A lot of people funded these things because they were interested in supporting "more of the same", despite not being interested specifically in these games (mostly true for WL2; I think absolutely every classic PC RPG fan wanted a PS:T-type game) and wanted the classic PC RPG niche to make a return.
Yep, I don't disagree there. But in all fairness even a small indie would be mad to totally avoid the Console(and Mobile) markets. They still need to make money, so that they can continue to make games.

I honestly would prefer them to stop Kickstarting games. Just go and make the games you want...
And here we are now, with WL3 being pitched as a multiplayer multiplatform title with fully-voiced (thus incredibly limited) "cinematic" dialogue interaction, and a Tides of Numenera that has been neutered and cut down and released as a multiplatform title, more reminiscent of a remake of an interactive Tumblr than the promised spiritual sequel to Planescape: Torment, and a development and crowdfunding process severely mishandled by an incommunicative inXile.
So don't back. I haven't. I am still undecided on whether I will or not.
Needless to say, a lot of people are not happy, and a lot of people question the direction they're heading, and rightfully so.
Sure but to focus on this, and say oh they shouldn't be designing for console at all, is just stupid. Of course they should design with console in mind, it is a market that they want, and at no point did they say they wouldn't be considering other markets when designing the game. They simply stated that the kickstarter was to get the game on PC/Mac.
It's not too late. Make it Eight!

User avatar
Lord of Riva
Adventurer
Posts: 964
Joined: October 14th, 2014, 10:18 am

Re: Wasteland 3: tell us your stretch goal ideas

Post by Lord of Riva » February 9th, 2017, 9:47 am

You either build for one format, or you compromise design standards and visions. This is a truth for the development of anything whatsoever, ever, not just games and not just console vs. PC.
He IS right on that. If you have two different plattforms with inherent differences you have to considerfor both. And you will need to adhere to the lowest denomiator. This is simply logical, not gamedev specific.
Nope. Based on the fact that they used Unity for WL2 and brought it to console as well, my immediate assumption was that they were always developing for PC but would take into consideration Console portal. Cause you know that makes sense.
It actually doesnt make sense, it would be more work to develop something for one plattform and then cut back or expand on what you have than just developing for the lowest denominator
Rubbish. What part of the difference between console and PC changes pathing? None of that is valid.
if at any point a statement appealing to logical reason does not make any logical sense one should consider if he is thinking about the same.
Im pretty sure he is not talking about pathing but the controls of groups with a controller compared to M/K.

imagine playing starcraft with a controller rather than a M/K then we are at the right example.
Rubbish. How is the design compromised. What parts of the game have been lost?
this is circular logic, if the design compromise influences from the start before the game is created nothing can logically be lost in the end Product. But that does not, in any way, mean that the design was not compromised.


What one should consider in my opinion is that being to sell more copies of the games due to it being available on more plattforms is a good thing.
While its certainly is good for them it also can mean that money is flowing back into development, either due to expected higher sales in this or after higher sales in the next project.

So while i agree with Luckmann in general that there are design decisions based on the Plattform im totally okay with some compromise. The cuts in Torment is nothing i can realistically amount to the console ports.
That said i backed WL3 with 5, for one i simply dont have money. secondly im also on the fence if this game is for me just like you two. lastly because i am not backing any InXile game until they improve their communications by quite a margin for the future of both WL3 and BT4

User avatar
Woolfe
Supreme Jerk
Posts: 5861
Joined: March 22nd, 2012, 6:42 pm

Re: Wasteland 3: tell us your stretch goal ideas

Post by Woolfe » February 9th, 2017, 3:30 pm

Lord of Riva wrote:
You either build for one format, or you compromise design standards and visions. This is a truth for the development of anything whatsoever, ever, not just games and not just console vs. PC.
He IS right on that. If you have two different plattforms with inherent differences you have to considerfor both. And you will need to adhere to the lowest denomiator. This is simply logical, not gamedev specific.
Your assumption is that changing between the two is complex, and will take resources. One of the points of unity is to avoid exactly that. So literally the only area for compromise is the UI and controller mechanism. As controllers are available on PC as well, and especially with the advent of touch, and people playing PC games at their TV. The argument that Controller mechanics are ONLY a consideration for Console is not correct. If I were developing I would look at it and would develop for both, because whilst the market for Touch and Controller is small on pc it is growing, and by supporting it there, you also inherently support it on consoles and IOS/Android environs (although they add another layer of complexity). Hence supporting in the PC environ is only logical.
Nope. Based on the fact that they used Unity for WL2 and brought it to console as well, my immediate assumption was that they were always developing for PC but would take into consideration Console portal. Cause you know that makes sense.
It actually doesnt make sense, it would be more work to develop something for one plattform and then cut back or expand on what you have than just developing for the lowest denominator
See above. You assume that KB/M is the only control system available on PC. Its not. By supporting on PC, they inherently support on Console as well. It makes perfect sense.
Rubbish. What part of the difference between console and PC changes pathing? None of that is valid.
if at any point a statement appealing to logical reason does not make any logical sense one should consider if he is thinking about the same.
Im pretty sure he is not talking about pathing but the controls of groups with a controller compared to M/K.

imagine playing starcraft with a controller rather than a M/K then we are at the right example.
Fair enough, but it doesn't really change the argument. At the moment you pause and make commands if you want to do it with any sort of precision. If you are using a controller, then you extend from that. Pause do your thing (which presumably takes longer) then unpause.
Rubbish. How is the design compromised. What parts of the game have been lost?
this is circular logic, if the design compromise influences from the start before the game is created nothing can logically be lost in the end Product. But that does not, in any way, mean that the design was not compromised.
Indeed. But it all ties into the thought of "PC" only. Which was never the case. Show me where they state PC only.
What one should consider in my opinion is that being to sell more copies of the games due to it being available on more plattforms is a good thing.
While its certainly is good for them it also can mean that money is flowing back into development, either due to expected higher sales in this or after higher sales in the next project.
Indeed, not only good, but logical. InXile want to keep making games, and I would guess they would like to get to a stage where they don't need kickstarter funds to do it. Cutting out half the Market simply because of the UI and control system is dumb.
So while i agree with Luckmann in general that there are design decisions based on the Plattform im totally okay with some compromise. The cuts in Torment is nothing i can realistically amount to the console ports.
That said i backed WL3 with 5, for one i simply dont have money. secondly im also on the fence if this game is for me just like you two. lastly because i am not backing any InXile game until they improve their communications by quite a margin for the future of both WL3 and BT4
The funny thing is. In Torment which was never meant to be a combat heavy game. The "lesser" GUI probably actually suits it better.

Yeah I have come to that conclusion regarding Backing as well. If I back it will be for base game only if that.

Personally I want them to stop doing remakes, and create some new IP. Then they can do whatever they want, and people won't be pissed that they changed something that was loved.
It's not too late. Make it Eight!

User avatar
Gizmo
Grandmaster
Posts: 3731
Joined: March 6th, 2012, 6:25 am

Re: Wasteland 3: tell us your stretch goal ideas

Post by Gizmo » February 9th, 2017, 3:49 pm

Woolfe wrote:
You either build for one format, or you compromise design standards and visions. This is a truth for the development of anything whatsoever, ever, not just games and not just console vs. PC.
Rubbish. How is the design compromised. What parts of the game have been lost?
In the music business, you might record and mix for an awesome 7.1 set of powered speakers... but before release, you play it on the clock-radio, and adjust it to better suit the lesser platform. ie. compromise

User avatar
Lord of Riva
Adventurer
Posts: 964
Joined: October 14th, 2014, 10:18 am

Re: Wasteland 3: tell us your stretch goal ideas

Post by Lord of Riva » February 10th, 2017, 7:20 am

...
Your assumption is that changing between the two is complex, and will take resources.
no, it is not a matter of ressource allocation. Its about comrpomises towards the lowest denominator which is here the controller. It is completely irrelevant that PCs can do this and that more, the fact is that consoles cant.(or rather that it never was successful to do so)
See above. You assume that KB/M is the only control system available on PC. Its not. By supporting on PC, they inherently support on Console as well. It makes perfect sense.
im not assuming that, im asuming that Controllers are the only control system on consoles, which possibly isnt even true, but nonetheless it is not really considered to make a console game that needs a KB/M. Its, as i said, the lowest denominator not the highest woolfe.

which is here: Controllers. And those have inherent different functionality and can not do the same things (as well at least) as KB/M and vice versa.
At the moment you pause and make commands if you want to do it with any sort of precision. If you are using a controller, then you extend from that. Pause do your thing (which presumably takes longer) then unpause.
i do not understand that statement.
Indeed. But it all ties into the thought of "PC" only. Which was never the case. Show me where they state PC only.
The game will be developed in the Unity engine for PC (Windows), Mac, and Linux platforms.
im still not sure why you made the statement "ties into the thought of PC only" we are merely talking about the concessions one has to make to support both plattforms, which are inherent. I do not care about PC first, could be console and pc first for all it matters, as long as it isnt suddenly console only.but it is still logical that there are compromises something that you vehemently argue against.

Im not even saying that PC or Console are inherently better.

User avatar
Woolfe
Supreme Jerk
Posts: 5861
Joined: March 22nd, 2012, 6:42 pm

Re: Wasteland 3: tell us your stretch goal ideas

Post by Woolfe » February 10th, 2017, 3:21 pm

Lord of Riva wrote:...
Your assumption is that changing between the two is complex, and will take resources.
no, it is not a matter of ressource allocation. Its about comrpomises towards the lowest denominator which is here the controller. It is completely irrelevant that PCs can do this and that more, the fact is that consoles cant.(or rather that it never was successful to do so)
Yes but Luckmann was specifically attacking consoles. Part of my point was that the use of a controller is not unique to a console, and that indeed touch is also a consideration. Building towards all those systems is not necessarily a consolisation of the game.
Lord of Riva wrote:
See above. You assume that KB/M is the only control system available on PC. Its not. By supporting on PC, they inherently support on Console as well. It makes perfect sense.
im not assuming that, im asuming that Controllers are the only control system on consoles, which possibly isnt even true, but nonetheless it is not really considered to make a console game that needs a KB/M. Its, as i said, the lowest denominator not the highest woolfe.

which is here: Controllers. And those have inherent different functionality and can not do the same things (as well at least) as KB/M and vice versa.
Sure. But they never really specified did they? We all assumed, but the question was never really asked/answered about the control system.
Lord of Riva wrote:
At the moment you pause and make commands if you want to do it with any sort of precision. If you are using a controller, then you extend from that. Pause do your thing (which presumably takes longer) then unpause.
i do not understand that statement.
It was in relation to the bit that is no longer there. Using a controller penalises the gameplay vs KB/M. I was trying to point out that due to the format of the game(And for some reason I was thinking RTwP, which I have no idea why?!?!??) in that it is turn based, the controller doesn't make a difference, as it is not precision based.

Sorry that was confused in how I explained it... I was clearly thinking about something else at the same time... apologies.
Lord of Riva wrote:
Indeed. But it all ties into the thought of "PC" only. Which was never the case. Show me where they state PC only.
The game will be developed in the Unity engine for PC (Windows), Mac, and Linux platforms.
im still not sure why you made the statement "ties into the thought of PC only" we are merely talking about the concessions one has to make to support both plattforms, which are inherent. I do not care about PC first, could be console and pc first for all it matters, as long as it isnt suddenly console only.but it is still logical that there are compromises something that you vehemently argue against.

Im not even saying that PC or Console are inherently better.
You aren't but Luckmann was.

And my point is that the compromise is being blamed purely on consoles. When the reality is we don't know that. The "console" concessions are not purely console concessions. Many of these concession have been made in other games before consoles even existed. "Dumbing down" is not an exclusively console thing.
It's not too late. Make it Eight!

Noizer
Initiate
Posts: 3
Joined: February 28th, 2016, 7:05 pm
Location: Russia

Re: Wasteland 3: tell us your stretch goal ideas

Post by Noizer » March 23rd, 2017, 1:01 pm

I just want to see a russian NPC in this game. Just another russian with dark jokes and steel balls. Thanks.

fihsu
Initiate
Posts: 1
Joined: March 29th, 2017, 3:09 pm

Re: Wasteland 3: tell us your stretch goal ideas

Post by fihsu » March 29th, 2017, 3:22 pm

How about a stretch goal to add Nintendo Switch as a target platform? If it's feasible to offer the game in physical cartridge as well as digital, I think there will be a lot of demand from current and prospective Switch owners. I bet the stretch goal would be easily met.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest