InXile, just one thing, make the game a liiiiittle less pew pew

Discussion about the upcoming Wasteland 3!

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yoomazir
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InXile, just one thing, make the game a liiiiittle less pew pew

Post by yoomazir » September 28th, 2016, 10:29 am

Okay, I understand that shooting stuff is an important part in the Wasteland franchise, but in Wasteland 2 I felt that 90% of the time it was just fights, fights and more fights, as if the lore, story and any other side quests were just an excuse to tell you "go there and kill stuff".

I'm not asking you guys to turn this game into a Fallout: New Vegas in terms of interaction even tho I am but I hope you guys include a little more variety when it comes to find different ways to finish a mission (like more kiss/smart/hard ass branching dialogues and sneaking).

Now that being said, I do believe you guys are aware of it, I've read that you brought the Tides writers for this game, which is fantastic, I love that game, the amount of dialogue, choices and interaction was everything I hoped, unlike a certain Pillars of *cough cough* game.

Just my 2 cents opinion, will definitely get the game on PS4, just like I did with W2.

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MrMoe
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Re: InXile, just one thing, make the game a liiiiittle less pew pew

Post by MrMoe » September 30th, 2016, 4:38 am

Wasteland 2 balance on combat and story was okay, I wouldn't change that in either direction.

But please improve the combat system. Do something more in line with Jagged Alliance 2.
A bit more tactical depth
Weapon types that have clearly different uses
Overhaul the armor system (weapon dt bypass scales nearly 1:1 with armor's dt, wtf ? )

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Re: InXile, just one thing, make the game a liiiiittle less pew pew

Post by undecaf » October 1st, 2016, 12:23 pm

Yeah, Wasteland 2 did feel grindy and bloated with combat.

A better balance between fights and other kinds of gameplay opportunities (not merely "getting around fights", but also all kinds of interactions with the world, bigger or smaller) would indeed be a welcome improvement.
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shaigunjoe
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Re: InXile, just one thing, make the game a liiiiittle less pew pew

Post by shaigunjoe » October 1st, 2016, 1:26 pm

I agree, the series of fighting encounters in wl2 felt very poorly paced. It just started feeling like a slog. In fact, that is the primary reason I haven't gone back to the directors cut.

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Jimmious
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Re: InXile, just one thing, make the game a liiiiittle less pew pew

Post by Jimmious » October 4th, 2016, 8:46 am

Three things are necessary in my opinion to improve the combat encounters:

- The handcrafted ones should be well thought out, with enemies that have unique abilites and skillsets and not just 10x random dudes with guns. That probably means they can be fewer per "map"

- If the are random encounters, there should be some variety there too, with some unique ones in the mix(see the old Fallout games for a good example). Random encounters in WL2 were highly repetitive and not really well made

- The AI must be competent. Use abilities properly, choose targets well, use cover and height etc
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Zombra
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Re: InXile, just one thing, make the game a liiiiittle less pew pew

Post by Zombra » October 4th, 2016, 10:52 am

Personally, I was fine with the amount of combat in W2. If anything, I think there should have been more opportunity for combat in the form of random encounters on area maps in addition to the scripted fights. Have stuff spawn offscreen and roam around the map, triggering combat when it gets close enough. Ag Center should have had mutant rabbits wandering around everywhere, not just sitting in a field waiting for the Rangers to come kill them.

Not that there should be SO many spawning encounters that the player can never do anything else. Maybe enough for 1-2 random fights per map crossing. But there should be SOME sense of danger all the time. That eerie sense of "clearing a map" was an ill-fitting followup to the constant struggle of Wasteland 1. Also with random encounters everywhere you should bring back heal over time. :geek:
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IHaveHugeNick
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Re: InXile, just one thing, make the game a liiiiittle less pew pew

Post by IHaveHugeNick » October 4th, 2016, 11:57 am

Combat was definitely a slog at times, but I don't think there was too much of it necessarily. I think it's more pacing related. Party-based game by it's very nature needs to have larger fights for player to find some challenge, but TB+party based means the fights will occasionally drag. Loot being completely random made a lot of fights annoying, too. Clearing 20 mobs only to find bunch of rabbit feces wasn't very nice. Then you have controlling for water, controlling for radiation, backtracking...ultimately they need to find the right balance making travel feel dangerous without making it feel like pointless busywork.
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Zombra
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Re: InXile, just one thing, make the game a liiiiittle less pew pew

Post by Zombra » October 4th, 2016, 2:45 pm

IHaveHugeNick wrote:Clearing 20 mobs only to find bunch of rabbit feces wasn't very nice.
In this vein, remove the level cap. What's the point of a level cap? All it does is turn trash combat into a complete utter total waste of time. If I get xp for killing stuff, I at least feel like I'm progressing, even if my characters are already gods. Wasteland 2 would not have changed at all without a level cap ... except I wouldn't have had that disappointed feeling when I realized there was no more xp.
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Ronin73
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Re: InXile, just one thing, make the game a liiiiittle less pew pew

Post by Ronin73 » October 4th, 2016, 2:59 pm

The game needs to go back to what the first Wasteland did by making ammo a scarce resource and bring back full auto (i.e emptying the clip) that allows the quick removal of enemies at the risk of not having enough ammo later on.
Zombra wrote:
IHaveHugeNick wrote:Clearing 20 mobs only to find bunch of rabbit feces wasn't very nice.
In this vein, remove the level cap. What's the point of a level cap? All it does is turn trash combat into a complete utter total waste of time. If I get xp for killing stuff, I at least feel like I'm progressing, even if my characters are already gods. Wasteland 2 would not have changed at all without a level cap ... except I wouldn't have had that disappointed feeling when I realized there was no more xp.
Yep and I wold take it further and suggest the removal attribute and skill caps too. All it really does is encorage jack of all trade builds and removes any incentive to specialize or make goofy builds.
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IHaveHugeNick
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Re: InXile, just one thing, make the game a liiiiittle less pew pew

Post by IHaveHugeNick » October 4th, 2016, 3:23 pm

Ronin73 wrote:
Zombra wrote:
IHaveHugeNick wrote:Clearing 20 mobs only to find bunch of rabbit feces wasn't very nice.
In this vein, remove the level cap. What's the point of a level cap? All it does is turn trash combat into a complete utter total waste of time. If I get xp for killing stuff, I at least feel like I'm progressing, even if my characters are already gods. Wasteland 2 would not have changed at all without a level cap ... except I wouldn't have had that disappointed feeling when I realized there was no more xp.
Yep and I wold take it further and suggest the removal attribute and skill caps too. All it really does is encorage jack of all trade builds and removes any incentive to specialize or make goofy builds.
Yeah, I'm with Ronin73 on this. Level cap wasn't really the problem here, it's that after level 20ish you've had a full party of 7 with main weapon skill maxed and enough support skills to pass most of relevant skill checks in one way or another. From that point onward it didn't feel like levels are rewarding enough.
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Zombra
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Re: InXile, just one thing, make the game a liiiiittle less pew pew

Post by Zombra » October 4th, 2016, 4:00 pm

Agreed, attribute and especially skill caps could go away too. Even with diminishing returns, it'd be nice to be able to continue progression. There were no evident caps in the original game (at least when played normally). To stray even farther from the OT this segues into learn-by-doing as well. In Wasteland 1, I was always excited to find a lock as an opportunity to test Lockpicking and possibly increase it.
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