Mole204's Wasteland 3 Construction Checklist

Discussion about the upcoming Wasteland 3!

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Re: Mole204's Wasteland 3 Construction Checklist

Post by Drool »

Mole204 wrote: July 27th, 2020, 8:47 pm-So the beta is over, but they shut down the beta, so we who paid to get the beta can't play it.
Yes. The beta is over.

I once rented a movie from Blockbuster, but when the rental period was over, I had to give it back and I couldn't watch it any more.
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Re: Mole204's Wasteland 3 Construction Checklist

Post by Mole204 »

I don't recall reading anything about the beta being rescinded, anywhere. Forum talk, Inexile page, ads and suggestions and youtube, terms and conditions, etc.
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Re: Mole204's Wasteland 3 Construction Checklist

Post by Gizmo »

Mole204 wrote: July 27th, 2020, 8:47 pm"I can explain it to them, but I can't make them understand it."

-They've been unable to answer the question "So why is there swearing in this game?"
Speak of yourself; it's been asked and answered many times... you just don't care about any answer that isn't blind agreement. ;)
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Re: Mole204's Wasteland 3 Construction Checklist

Post by Drool »

Mole204 wrote: July 28th, 2020, 7:17 pm I don't recall reading anything about the beta being rescinded, anywhere. Forum talk, Inexile page, ads and suggestions and youtube, terms and conditions, etc.
...okay?
Wasteland 3 Dev Diary #2 + End of Beta wrote: Posted: 05/23/2020

[...]

The other bit of news we have for you is our intent to end the Backer Beta mid-June (currently targeting Jun 17). At that time the Beta will be taken down from Steam, and we'll begin revoking Beta key access...
(emphasis added)
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Re: Mole204's Wasteland 3 Construction Checklist

Post by Mole204 »

I can't explain how I missed that, but if you say it was there... Of course it seems that I was far from being alone in having missed that.
I'm mostly ignoring the "Dusty and Marie" and "William and Tsing" stuff for now. Anything I should know there?
It just seems like an attention grab, or a good way around advertising by being entertaining. I just don't have time for facebook drama. Still, having a low opinion of twitter is no excuse for what, if completed and compiled, would make a good choose your own adventure story. Add enough dummy paragraphs and you'd have a paragraph book. :D
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Re: Mole204's Wasteland 3 Construction Checklist

Post by Drool »

Mole204 wrote: July 31st, 2020, 9:27 pm I can't explain how I missed that, but if you say it was there...
If you don't believe me, go to the Fig site and look for yourself. Or look through your old emails.
Of course it seems that I was far from being alone in having missed that.
I can't help it if people don't read updates. I mean, that's what they're there for: to update people with what's going on.
I'm mostly ignoring the "Dusty and Marie" and "William and Tsing" stuff for now.
So am I. But they're not updates labeled "End of Beta".
Add enough dummy paragraphs and you'd have a paragraph book.
Isn't that poor horse dead enough for you?
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Re: Mole204's Wasteland 3 Construction Checklist

Post by Mole204 »

Drool wrote: August 1st, 2020, 1:57 pm
Add enough dummy paragraphs and you'd have a paragraph book.
Isn't that poor horse dead enough for you?
Dead? Sure doesn't look it if they're making a part three!
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Re: Mole204's Wasteland 3 Construction Checklist

Post by Drool »

Wulfric wrote: August 6th, 2020, 12:05 pm two weeks later and the two idiots are still going in a circle
No need to directly insult other forum members. If you don't like the thread, don't read it.
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Re: Mole204's Wasteland 3 Construction Checklist

Post by Mole204 »

So the day is upon us.
-Let's see what changes they made to the map and combat system since the Beta.
-The game graphics are high quality, maybe a little too high quality. Let's hope there's menu functions to alter the processing draw for unneeded showing off.
-It's unfortunate that the writer for Wl3 had so little to work with that he had to rely on swearing. They could have done better. It's crude, it's offputting, and it's the pen-stabbings of a stupid person. It just has no place in anything intelligent, and we the customers are shortchanged by that lack of effort. "No-one's here for the f-bomb, we're all here for the A-bombs." But I've seen no evidence of bigger mistakes than that, so let's keep our hopes up. The graphics look good, and the beta's gameplay was good.
-The Golden Scorpitron idea is a good one. Looking forward to seeing if I'll encounter it when my party is strong, or when we're taking our last HP's and staggering back to base. Will there be multiple encounters? Encounters until it's killed, or multiple meetings with a GS?
-There's no paragraph book to be seen, but WL3 has had a lot of extra goodies attached to it. Soundtracks, novels, art books, etc. Desert Rangers Wasteland Survival Guide might take the slot, don't know yet. A PB _style_ book would do for it. Best we all look those up ourselves. If anyone finds one in a file tree, let me know. :)
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Re: Mole204's Wasteland 3 Construction Checklist

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-The char creation needs some way to save characters. It's easy to undo all of one's progress just because it didn't get the checkmark.
-The animation is smooth. The pathfinder isn't jaggy, or at least hasn't jammed up yet. The bullet counter that tracks the ammo and the total amount of that ammo is a nice touch.
-The program runs well enough, or at least as long as there's only one of it. I haven't tried anything really load-stressing. When too much ram is used, the whole thing slows down. Walk speed, processing, all of it.
-The combat system is good, and the random encounter levels are less maze-like than wl2's were. But there's still much too much time lost to loading screens.
-One thing I did notice from the beta AND the finished version was that wl3 still tracks the keyboard, even when other programs like firefox or notepad are running on top of it. -My name doesn't seem to be in the backer list. I could be wrong, it's a long list.
-The swearing proves the games's creators to be creatively lacking. Someone had to write this, and be paid for it? Someone had to approve this? It's garbage and still someone went and approved it. Yes, 'some' of the game is ok. Take a look at Taiwan Jones. That's how it's done. The Patriarch, showing some charisma. Even Flab gets to show some menace. The clowns? Gods, no. Wipe them out.
-If there's a killcounter, I can't find it, disappointingly. Players sink many hours into a game, and there's no track of your score? Wl2 had one.
-Love the radio messages, by the way.

-About the gameplay though...
Grinding seems to be pretty hard at the start. Fight the Local 1-somethingsomething. Total party kill. Fight the Irv Clones, total party kill. Try to get into the room behind the bar at Fargo's tpk. Try to rescue the caravan- _near_ total party kill. Love that truck gun. Find the clown tent, tpk. Finally find a random encounter, the thing that I'm supposed to using to grind for levels. And the Drools explode. And the frogs explode.
There is a LOT of time wasted looking for random encounters. Not fighting, looking for. Load screens. The stop and start truck. Going back and forth with nothing to show for it. What am I doing wrong? (Yes, they're wearing armour and have loaded guns.) But finding enemies to fight was swifter and easier in Wl2. The speed of it was something I liked about Wl1 and continue to hold modern day programs against.
The random encounter levels are smaller, better, and are what WL2 should have been doing with them. A clear improvement over wl2's levels.
-You should be able to remove mods from your guns/armor.
-At the end of the first week, I called it "done with" looking for ways to survive poison porcupines, ice worm demon, and a bad setup at the clown tent. Even the random encounters gave things like 600 to 900 hp frogs. It might not have been so bad if they didn't explode. But it'd been a week and I was at a dead end in an unwinnable game, so I've been switching back and forth from Jerk to Rookie. This is supposed to be enjoyable, after all.
-
Questions I posted elsewhere because they need to be fixed-
Q1- How do you involve Truck in your fights, when he's not pre-slected to be part of the team. Example: Fighting the Tent Clowns, retreat to the truck so that clown will follow, truck won't fire on clowns, truck does not have a picture-icon in party list at this time.
Q2- You have a button for "check your fame and reputation" but no way to End Combat when in a prolonged non-combat state of combat? There's no one left mobile and shooting at you, and we're all by the truck anyway. Some of the stationary enemies are best ones I'd like to come back to later.
Q3- How do you stop the WL3 program from keylogging you, and following out commands that way?
Q4- How to control animals? Tom, get back here! I will restore over this entire fight if you get killed!
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Re: Mole204's Wasteland 3 Construction Checklist

Post by marceror »

@Mole204

I just started playing and am pretty early in the game, so I have plenty to learn yet, but here are some of my observations to questions:

Q1- How do you involve Truck in your fights, when he's not pre-slected to be part of the team. Example: Fighting the Tent Clowns, retreat to the truck so that clown will follow, truck won't fire on clowns, truck does not have a picture-icon in party list at this time.
A: I believe only certain fights allow for this. If the Kodiak isn't showing as part of your "squad", than it isn't usable in combat. I'm still forming my opinion on this, but I think I like the novelty factor so far.

Q2- You have a button for "check your fame and reputation" but no way to End Combat when in a prolonged non-combat state of combat? There's no one left mobile and shooting at you, and we're all by the truck anyway. Some of the stationary enemies are best ones I'd like to come back to later.
A: I haven't had an issue with this yet. I recall that you could flee combat in certain cases in WL2, but it required running in turn-based mode for a bit to do it. Can't do that here?

Q3- How do you stop the WL3 program from keylogging you, and following out commands that way?
A: No idea what this means, so I can't comment

Q4- How to control animals? Tom, get back here! I will restore over this entire fight if you get killed!
A: I don't believe you can. You could not in WL2 either. Try to keep your pet users near the back if you want to keep the pets far from combat. Many times they do not join the fight at all that way, I've noticed.

Regarding combat difficulty, I'm not finding this to be difficult yet. I started on the standard difficulty (2 of 4) just to learn the ropes. The clone fight was easy enough for me. I used a rocket to get a good start with it. I guess consider lowering the difficulty if it's too challenging, or adjusting tactics and party composition. I did spend a couple of days planning how I would build my party before I even considered starting a game in earnest.

Regarding the swearing, I'm pretty sure that is simply how Brian Fargo wants the game to be written. It's a stylistic choice, and sure, you can do great writing without swearing, and in everyday speech it is best when you can express yourself without needing to swear. That said, I don't think the Wastelanders care about such etiquette and there is reasonable chance that folks would actually talk like this in a world that all but lacks law and order. So this is what inXile went with. Many movies do it also. You talk like this was an objectively wrong opinion, or a limitation of the writing team team, but no. The writers at inXile are perfectly capable of producing excellent writing without swearing. You're likely just banging your head against a brick wall on this one. You don't prefer it, but Mr. Fargo does. And since he's in charge he has the right to make this call. Also, considering that Wasteland 2 was written this way, it would create a continuity issue for Wasteland 3 to suddenly be filled clean mouthed, amoral bandits and raiders. Think about that! ;)
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Re: Mole204's Wasteland 3 Construction Checklist

Post by Drool »

Mole204 wrote: September 7th, 2020, 7:13 pm-The program runs well enough, or at least as long as there's only one of it. I haven't tried anything really load-stressing. When too much ram is used, the whole thing slows down. Walk speed, processing, all of it.
Well, yes. That's how computers work.
But there's still much too much time lost to loading screens.
Yeah, the load times are pretty intolerable, especially considering how frequently you change zones.
One thing I did notice from the beta AND the finished version was that wl3 still tracks the keyboard, even when other programs like firefox or notepad are running on top of it.
I've seen this complaint before, but I can't say I've experienced it. I'm running full-screen though, so that might be it.
Grinding seems to be pretty hard at the start. Fight the Local 1-somethingsomething. Total party kill. Fight the Irv Clones, total party kill.
The quests have level indicators, but they seem to be set to Wastelander difficulty. When I was running on Supreme Jerk, I generally had to add 5 or 6 levels. That said, the clone fight seems to be exceedingly difficult in general. At least at level.
Try to get into the room behind the bar at Fargo's tpk.
Well, yeah, if you fight your way in. There's a mostly peaceful path you can take.
And the Drools explode. And the frogs explode.
Only some do.
There is a LOT of time wasted looking for random encounters. Not fighting, looking for.
Personally, I've been avoiding them. They aren't worth the ammo. I've been able to get plenty of levels just doing quests. Especially since I've leveled Charisma more.
But it'd been a week and I was at a dead end in an unwinnable game, so I've been switching back and forth from Jerk to Rookie. This is supposed to be enjoyable, after all.
SJ doesn't forgive bad team comp. Or even less than excellent team comp. That said, I got a lot of mileage using machine gun turrets and decoys.
Q1- How do you involve Truck in your fights, when he's not pre-slected to be part of the team. Example: Fighting the Tent Clowns, retreat to the truck so that clown will follow, truck won't fire on clowns, truck does not have a picture-icon in party list at this time.
As far as I know, you don't.
Q4- How to control animals? Tom, get back here! I will restore over this entire fight if you get killed!
As far as I know, you don't.
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Re: Mole204's Wasteland 3 Construction Checklist

Post by Mole204 »

Drool wrote: September 8th, 2020, 1:53 pm
But there's still much too much time lost to loading screens.
Yeah, the load times are pretty intolerable, especially considering how frequently you change zones.
Good to know it's not just my problem. Remember all that talk about graphics and ram? This is part of what I was talking about.
One thing I did notice from the beta AND the finished version was that wl3 still tracks the keyboard, even when other programs like firefox or notepad are running on top of it.
I've seen this complaint before, but I can't say I've experienced it. I'm running full-screen though, so that might be it.
Open Wl3. Then open Chrome or Firefox or Notepad, etc on top of it. Your keystrokes will be noticed by both programs.
Grinding seems to be pretty hard at the start. Fight the Local 1-somethingsomething. Total party kill. Fight the Irv Clones, total party kill.
[/quote]The quests have level indicators, but they seem to be set to Wastelander difficulty. When I was running on Supreme Jerk, I generally had to add 5 or 6 levels. That said, the clone fight seems to be exceedingly difficult in general. At least at level.[/quote]
I could have a guy sneak up to the generator, but no one could survive the shrinks and laser guns. Perhaps if the clones hadn't been healing themselves it would be different.
Try to get into the room behind the bar at Fargo's tpk.
[/quote]Well, yeah, if you fight your way in. There's a mostly peaceful path you can take.[/quote]
I know, but only because I read a description. There's no way to connect A to B there, though. And I intend to leave that one until I'm done level grinding anyway.
And the Drools explode. And the frogs explode.
Only some do.
"Some" was enough to make sure that there were no survivors. Repeatedly.
There is a LOT of time wasted looking for random encounters. Not fighting, looking for.
Personally, I've been avoiding them. They aren't worth the ammo. I've been able to get plenty of levels just doing quests. Especially since I've leveled Charisma more.
"If you can't defeat the bandits, go train kung-fu in the mountains." If the RE's are going to be so hard to find, there should have been a place to find a guaranteed encounter, like the Caravan site that nobody has any use for afterwards.
But it'd been a week and I was at a dead end in an unwinnable game, so I've been switching back and forth from Jerk to Rookie. This is supposed to be enjoyable, after all.
SJ doesn't forgive bad team comp. Or even less than excellent team comp. That said, I got a lot of mileage using machine gun turrets and decoys.
They're good, but the supply is so limited. I thought it best to save them for later in the game. Not for, a bunch of giant porcupines.
Q4- How to control animals? Tom, get back here! I will restore over this entire fight if you get killed!
As far as I know, you don't.
I consider that one a dealbreaker. He's so useful, though. Not as good as Vax1, but much better than Vax2.
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Re: Mole204's Wasteland 3 Construction Checklist

Post by Drool »

Mole204 wrote: September 8th, 2020, 3:50 pmGood to know it's not just my problem. Remember all that talk about graphics and ram? This is part of what I was talking about.
That has pretty much nothing to do with it. It loads slow on potatoes and on $2000+ gaming monsters; SSDs and HDDs. It's not a matter of not enough kilohurtz; it's poor optimization.
Open Wl3. Then open Chrome or Firefox or Notepad, etc on top of it. Your keystrokes will be noticed by both programs.
Yes, thank you. I know what the error is. That's why I was able to say that I haven't experienced it.
I could have a guy sneak up to the generator, but no one could survive the shrinks and laser guns. Perhaps if the clones hadn't been healing themselves it would be different.
I ended up keeping the turret hacked for the entire fight while launching rockets to force them to heal every round (they have infinite items, but thankfully limited AP) while focus-firing them down one at a time and making liberal use of my down deployable turrets and decoys.
I know, but only because I read a description. There's no way to connect A to B there, though. And I intend to leave that one until I'm done level grinding anyway.
Nah, there is, it's just a little obscure and easy to miss.
And the Drools explode. And the frogs explode.
Only some do.
"Some" was enough to make sure that there were no survivors. Repeatedly.
I mean, the ones that do are pretty easy to pick out, and then it's just a matter of not letting those get close. It's also easy to predict the ones that will (Bile Bomber for instance), especially if you're trying the fight multiple times.
"If you can't defeat the bandits, go train kung-fu in the mountains." If the RE's are going to be so hard to find, there should have been a place to find a guaranteed encounter, like the Caravan site that nobody has any use for afterwards.
...okay? You completely missed my point, though: the random encounters aren't required to level. I've done all of one random encounter so far in my playthrough. I've intentionally avoided every other one I've faced. But, if you're that desperate for them, just drive in circles somewhere.
I consider that one a dealbreaker. He's so useful, though. Not as good as Vax1, but much better than Vax2.
Cats being well known for obeying the commands of humans.
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Re: Mole204's Wasteland 3 Construction Checklist

Post by viasqi »

you're playing a game where raiders hang people on poles and slaver tribes sell people to the highest bidder ... and you're whole problem is that people swearing ? You need to re-evaluate your priorities concerning " gore " & " mayhem "

- when i watch a movie or play a game i care about realism
- but i am also aware there are people ( like the OP ) who are offended very easily .... though i don't understand how you can be offended by harsh words in a game where you blow things up with explosives

that being said i think a game like wasteland needs to cater to realism
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Re: Mole204's Wasteland 3 Construction Checklist

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Also, considering that Wasteland 2 was written this way, it would create a continuity issue for Wasteland 3 to suddenly be filled clean mouthed, amoral bandits and raiders. Think about that!
No, that's called an improvement. We could have gotten interesting phrases instead of swearing. You'll just have to accept that there are people who have a better grasp on speech. What if some effort to write something good had been put up?
Cats being well known for obeying the commands of humans.
OK, there's no defense for me there. But Tom's a chesspiece in my party, I should get some say in things.
Tom! The firing line is back here!
the random encounters aren't required to level.
If you're getting XP for it, and require XP to level, then RE's are required to advance your level. There's a lot of "come back later when you can play this on my level" going on. Like the tent Payasos, or the Scar Collectors, who can defeat my party easily without the truck. Also, there's nothing wrong in enjoying playing the game. The computer's combat time could have been shaved down a little though. There's too much time wasted in waiting for the AI to move/attack.

I'm still having trouble getting the radiation plating for the Truck. The walkthrough says talk to Fastback at the CS garage. I did that, and it's after saving the caravan, too. I got the guy and his sister at the HQ garage as well. The quest with Bobby Cotter hasn't triggered yet. So no one has the plating.
Has anyone started a fight/killed off the other garage in Colorado Springs? Wouldn't that cause your rep to drop or something?

Does anyone know what the best gun in the game is? In Wl1 it was the proton ax. In wl2 it was the plasma rifle. I don't want to pass it by in wl3. At the moment I'm giving the energy weapons a bit of a pass it by, as they seem to have been "balanced" and are about the same as bullet guns.
At the moment, I'm between quests I can't solve, and looking to level up to be able to defeat the drool invasion of the godfisher territory. I killed the first 30, it's the second 30 that overwhelmed me. The Gipper outbuildings are full of drools. It was fun. "Glorious, but fatal." Leveling up is needed.

-Am I using the map wrong? How do I go from place to place on autopilot? Or even just drive around until the RE triggers? I can't just hold down Escape until an attack happens.

This also leads into
-Where are all the random encounters? Yes, there's a point in the game where such things are a bit of an annoyance, but when you're looking for RE's where do you go? It would be getting some use out of a done and emptied territory, like the Caravan location or burned down Hoon farm.
-Better control over the animal companions are needed. I'd like to be able to tell Tom to stay back, or just to be able to leave him at the HQ and come back for him later.
-Level load times need lessening.
-Why are gun/armor mods non removable? How are players supposed to be able to switch up for better mods when they're found?
Even going to Sanctified Piscapelli and having her do it would be useful.
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Re: Mole204's Wasteland 3 Construction Checklist

Post by Gizmo »

Mole204 wrote: September 15th, 2020, 7:27 pm No, that's called an improvement. We could have gotten interesting phrases instead of swearing.
You'll just have to accept that there are people who have a better grasp on speech.
Perhaps in both cases from characters who have neither the wit nor the grasp—and yet this is supposed to seem credible from them?


That's the problem with the blanket demand for a clean script; you either miss out on certain character styles—done believably, or (worse) you have them in the story and then have to have it play out like Marry Poppins.

Image

Your way of it demands that everyone be a Groucho Marx, and none can be a Tommy DeVito (Joe Pesci's character in Goodfellas).
How could that ever be credible story telling?
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Re: Mole204's Wasteland 3 Construction Checklist

Post by Mole204 »

Gizmo wrote: September 15th, 2020, 7:41 pm Your way of it demands that everyone be a Groucho Marx, and none can be a Tommy DeVito (Joe Pesci's character in Goodfellas).
OK you got my number on that. That's a good point, and is the standard that I do hold people to. You're a grown man, and are expected to have the self-control, the vocabulary, and can live up to the expectation, to just not swear. You're a man, not a animal. Characters not swearing IS credible storytelling, and just is well-crafted wordsmithing in telling that story. And just because something does not trip the f-scanner, does not prevent it from being foul, profane, or just nasty. WL3 does not coddle people by ignoring such actions, though. It's a gun-heavy solution tree. :)
I never did sit through Goodfellas.
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Re: Mole204's Wasteland 3 Construction Checklist

Post by Drool »

Mole204 wrote: September 15th, 2020, 7:27 pm
the random encounters aren't required to level.
If you're getting XP for it, and require XP to level, then RE's are required to advance your level.
No, they aren't. Random encounters are one way to raise your level; they're also about the worst possible way to do it. Completing quests and passing skill checks is far more efficient. While you can use random encounters to level, you certainly don't need to.
There's a lot of "come back later when you can play this on my level" going on.
Yes, that's what happens when the game doesn't scale enemies to your level. It also means that if you forget about something and go back much later, you'll steamroll them.
Like the tent Payasos, or the Scar Collectors, who can defeat my party easily without the truck.
Yup. Went back to them much later and steamrolled them.
The walkthrough says talk to Fastback at the CS garage. I did that, and it's after saving the caravan, too. I got the guy and his sister at the HQ garage as well.
The level 2 chassis should be available then.
Has anyone started a fight/killed off the other garage in Colorado Springs? Wouldn't that cause your rep to drop or something?
I assume it would turn the entire town hostile.
Does anyone know what the best gun in the game is?
Depends. Jackhammer is probably the best shotgun. Ripper would be the best SMG. There's some debate on the best sniper rifle. There's no one best.
In Wl1 it was the proton ax.
Well. That's not a gun. Also, I would argue the Ion Beamer was the best.
In wl2 it was the plasma rifle.
...it was?
At the moment I'm giving the energy weapons a bit of a pass it by, as they seem to have been "balanced" and are about the same as bullet guns.
They completely ignore armor. Energy weapons are great.
-Am I using the map wrong? How do I go from place to place on autopilot?
You don't.
Or even just drive around until the RE triggers?
Press the right mouse button and the Kodiak will move to that location. Repeat.
I can't just hold down Escape until an attack happens.
Yes. That was only in the original.
Where are all the random encounters?
On the world map.
Why are gun/armor mods non removable? How are players supposed to be able to switch up for better mods when they're found?
Pretty sure you just switch the mod. You just can't salvage the old one. But, for the most part, I found mods to be pretty unengaging as their bonuses were generally pretty minor and I was drowning in them.
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Mole204
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Joined: May 6th, 2013, 3:17 pm

Re: Mole204's Wasteland 3 Construction Checklist

Post by Mole204 »

The new Fishface encounter is better, more to the point. The swearing's still unnecessary.

How do you "camp" until you get a random encounter? Like in WL1, where holding down Esc would tick past in place.

I don't know how I triggered the Gideon Rayes storyline, but I did. I was coming back from Denver, I think? Got the truck radiation plates.

So they've updated? It doesn't seem to have broken anything, and the load screens might be a wee bit shorter so it looks like a successful update.
The gun mods system still needs to be altered.

The other garage in CS is Dorsey loyals.

WL2- Best Weapon- or was it the Gamma Ray Blaster? I forget the name, really.

I got Smartypants from the Gippers. I would have liked to convinced Sister N Reliance to take the mind transfer, though.
While you can use random encounters to level, you certainly don't need to.
Going up levels means getting more hit points, more skill points. So yes leveling up is clearly needed.
A big part of WL1 was the random encounters. This was lessened but still carried over into wl2. By numbers it's nearly dropped in wl3. Few as they are, it's still worth seeking them out.
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