Bigger party,more ammo drops,reduce weight and etc...

Discussion about the upcoming Wasteland 3!

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Zombra
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Re: Bigger party,more ammo drops,reduce weight and etc...

Post by Zombra » November 11th, 2017, 8:10 pm

Without a LOT more Skills, I don't even know what I would do with two extra created Rangers. I already covered every noncombat skill in the book with just 4; my companions were essentially meat shields. Of course I would love to see more (and more meaningfully developed) Skills this time around, so hey, I'm into it.
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Stuurminator
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Re: Bigger party,more ammo drops,reduce weight and etc...

Post by Stuurminator » November 12th, 2017, 1:11 pm

Captain_Bonecold wrote:
November 11th, 2017, 3:13 pm
I mention leadership if you readed the full topic. Leadership ship rank 10 is 50% Max. There are NPC's with 70% chance to go rogue. You think everyone running around at 10 intelligence. 90% of all ranger squads has 1 skill guru. One ranger with 10 intelligence. Min squad intelligence for most CaC rangers is 4. There are NPC's with 2 and 3 intelligence. Let this drill in. All other stats can be used later on. 10,20,30,40 and 50 you can add 1 point into all other stats and get the max results. Skill points don't add on if you add points to intelligence. 40 level ups and 4 stat points dump into intelligence is a waste for 10 extra skill points at lv 50.

My idea to boost intelligence makes putting that extra stat point into intelligence worth it.

Everything in wasteland has a skill. If they add vehicles they would add a vehicle skill. Turning 29 skills to 30 skills. There could be 71 new skills.
I did read the full topic, which is why I didn't address the rogue chance until you claimed that a 5% rogue chance was unreasonable. There are two recruitable NPCs in the game with a rogue chance higher than 50%. In Ertan's case, it balances out his combat effectiveness (being better in a fight than most, if not all of the other recruits). NaCl, on the other hand, is a clusterfuck on every level and probably shouldn't be taken as indicative of anything.

I also know that you referred to NPCs going rogue as certain death. This is wrong. Rogue NPCs don't do anything more than closing to attack range and attacking. Most of the time, this means they're going to stay right where you put them (in cover, or at least somewhere not wholly precarious) and take a substandard shot. It's annoying, but in most cases it just means they won't really contribute that round. You should be able to deal with it.

Yes, some NPCs have 2 and 3 intelligence, and they won't get any benefit from those points until you push them up to 4. Yes, they're not perfectly minmaxed. It happens.

Adding a shitload of new skills to use a larger number of SP on won't fix the balance problem, because the balance is between different PCs, not PCs and their environment. What you're suggesting is for a character with 10 IN to ten times more useful for skills than a character with 1 IN. That's a massive difference! A character with 10 CO doesn't have ten times the accuracy or AP as a character with 1 CO. A character with 10 AW doesn't act ten times as often as a character with 1 AW. A character with 10 ST doesn't have ten times the HP or hit for ten times as much damage as the character with 1 ST.

I guess you can argue that a character with 10 CH contributes ten times as much as a character with 1 CH, but that's because charisma is barely ever used. Meanwhile, you use skills every time you proactively interact with the world in a way that calls upon any of your stats.
Captain_Bonecold wrote:
November 11th, 2017, 3:13 pm
I want all starting stats to be 4. That way I can keep luck at 4.
This doesn't contribute anything except to make the game easier. It doesn't make it character generation more interesting or give you more options.

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Re: Bigger party,more ammo drops,reduce weight and etc...

Post by Dork Mage » November 12th, 2017, 7:02 pm

Captain_Bonecold wrote:
November 11th, 2017, 3:15 pm
Angela went rogue 7 times already. 5% rogue chance. I restarted my file. I mess up on my builds and save file.
Which had me boost leadership. Oh, and there is a range to leadership. If you leader is too far away from the NPC then they go rogue.

It's a balancing act... you want NPCs in your team, then you have to have a leader and keep the NPCs close.

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Re: Bigger party,more ammo drops,reduce weight and etc...

Post by Stuurminator » November 12th, 2017, 10:57 pm

Dork Mage wrote:
November 12th, 2017, 7:02 pm
If you leader is too far away from the NPC then they go rogue.
This one isn't true, actually. The range only applies to the accuracy bonus. The rogue chance reduction applies to everyone, everywhere on the map.

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Grohal
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Re: Bigger party,more ammo drops,reduce weight and etc...

Post by Grohal » November 13th, 2017, 2:55 am

Stuurminator wrote:
November 12th, 2017, 10:57 pm
Dork Mage wrote:
November 12th, 2017, 7:02 pm
If you leader is too far away from the NPC then they go rogue.
This one isn't true, actually. The range only applies to the accuracy bonus. The rogue chance reduction applies to everyone, everywhere on the map.
Areu you sure? I would think Dork Mage is right here.
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Re: Bigger party,more ammo drops,reduce weight and etc...

Post by paultakeda » November 13th, 2017, 11:11 am

Weight, shmeight. I'd've liked an abstract ENC number to represent weight AND mass. And bullets would definitely have noticeable ENC.

A core 4 ranger party with 3 NPCS is one of the few things left of WL1. I'd like it to stay.

I do agree that it makes no sense for a sniper using 7.62 to drop .38 Special, but can someone confirm that this happens in WL2?

I have never understood why beasts gave ammo or other items as loot. It has always perplexed me in pretty much every RPG with killable beasts.

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Re: Bigger party,more ammo drops,reduce weight and etc...

Post by Dork Mage » November 13th, 2017, 4:38 pm

Captain_Bonecold wrote:
November 9th, 2017, 2:06 pm

Do you understand the stats in wasteland? Lets break it down for you. So you and the others can understand my point.

Intelligence: +4 = +1 action point. 4,8,10= +1 bonus skill.

Charisma: +1 = +5% Non-Combat Xp Bonus and +2m Leadership Radius.

Bonus for 1 point per stat of other stat. Intelligence is punch in the face.
Charisma (of your leader) increases the range that leadership controls rogue NPCs. It's annoying early on because your leader is "stuck" with the NPCs.

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Re: Bigger party,more ammo drops,reduce weight and etc...

Post by Stuurminator » November 13th, 2017, 8:06 pm

Dork Mage wrote:
November 13th, 2017, 4:38 pm
Charisma (of your leader) increases the range that leadership controls rogue NPCs. It's annoying early on because your leader is "stuck" with the NPCs.
You probably don't need to restate this on the same page you stated it the first time. Especially since it's wrong.

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Re: Bigger party,more ammo drops,reduce weight and etc...

Post by Lightzy » December 5th, 2017, 9:51 am

To rephrase the OP's suggestions:
"Put more marshmellows on it, also chocolate sauce and gumballs. And fizzy candy. and and ice cream cups with peanut butter and chocolate balls and caramel and everywhere more chocolate chip cookies all around with cookie dough bits and.."

Exactly the same as when a 7 year old describes his favorite dessert. Making for an overly sweet abomination that's fit for 7 year olds and no one else.

Please ignore each and every one of the original poster's suggestions and make a very tightly balanced game for adults who enjoy a challenge

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Re: Bigger party,more ammo drops,reduce weight and etc...

Post by Mole204 » December 10th, 2017, 11:58 pm

Lightzy wrote:
December 5th, 2017, 9:51 am
To rephrase the OP's suggestions:
"Put more marshmellows on it, also chocolate sauce and gumballs. And fizzy candy. and and ice cream cups with peanut butter and chocolate balls and caramel and everywhere more chocolate chip cookies all around with cookie dough bits and.."

Exactly the same as when a 7 year old describes his favorite dessert. Making for an overly sweet abomination that's fit for 7 year olds and no one else.

Please ignore each and every one of the original poster's suggestions and make a very tightly balanced game for adults who enjoy a challenge
I would think that it's part of a game designer's job to figure out how many different bowls (or game areas, levels, or skills) are involved.
Yes, we want it all and want it now, but we want it in it's proper place and in it's proper box. WL2 was a larger game than WL1, but WL1 was a more populated game then WL2. There are just posters here who want to bring the fun-crazy back.

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