Miel Avest Escape - Was This Meant to Be Fun

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Jillexie
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Miel Avest Escape - Was This Meant to Be Fun

Post by Jillexie » March 13th, 2017, 8:33 pm

Question for the devs - when the Miel Avest escape crisis was put together and tested, was it meant to be fun? Because if I wanted to torture myself, I could just slam my head into a desk (which I did multiple times through this encounter).

Lets see, bad pathfinding, terrible mechanics, gimping a group that focuses on wit and not might, terrible pathfinding, bugs galore, TERRIBLE PATHFINDING!

Maybe tomorrow I will somehow make i through this crisis, but you might want to make this a focus on your eventual improvements to this game, please.

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Olm
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Re: Miel Avest Escape - Was This Meant to Be Fun

Post by Olm » March 14th, 2017, 3:25 am

This escape is not fun at all: it's run for life from the horror of final death.

I had retried the scene multiple times myself because of perfectionist purpose to save at least all named castoffs.

The pathfinding is not a problem at all: just point the move destination carefully while observing the forming path.

The problem is in the crisis tactics: how to delay the Sorrow shadow beasts, to rescue maximum number of people and to arrive to the escape point with your protagonist ASAP — all of these at once.

I had spent about three hours at all in two game sessions to complete my objective. So I can say it can be done.

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Re: Miel Avest Escape - Was This Meant to Be Fun

Post by anonymous6059 » March 14th, 2017, 5:09 am

I'll admit that I was actually a bit terrified here and I think that is how you're supposed to feel. My group started off trying to save everyone, but when they saw the sorrow everything quickly changed. The Sorrow liquefied some random castoff dealing -232352413221 damage. That's when it was time to leave and leave fast!!! The frustration of escaping wasn't "fun", but it was one of the few exhilarating moments of the game. I'm pretty sure that you're not supposed to save everyone. You're supposed to be scared. You're looking death in the face after all.

I actually thought it was okay.

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Re: Miel Avest Escape - Was This Meant to Be Fun

Post by Jillexie » March 14th, 2017, 6:02 am

Got it on my 4th attempt, but it was still an exercise in frustration. It's no fun when:

1) The castoff pathfinding has them running around in circles in a fire then back to the same spot they started in, even though there is a clear path to escape.
2) Laying down a path for a PC that does not touch fire, clicking it, then having the PC run into fire anyways.
3) Having Aadiriis tank the Sorrow straight to you and then getting one shot by it (it would have been better to just leave it on its own side).

Anyways, it is done. Next time I will just cheese it by getting Quantum Step or an equivalent teleporting skill. It would help if you could have higher initiative characters hold their turn till later, especially for a crisis like this where you need to execute skills in a certain order.

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Varana
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Re: Miel Avest Escape - Was This Meant to Be Fun

Post by Varana » March 14th, 2017, 8:02 am

I don't really have a problem with a non-fighting party not being able to rescue all the named castoffs. (Assuming a fighting party would have an easier time with that, which I really doubt.) The game is lacking in rewards for taking the violent, non-talking route, anyway.
Going into a fight won't help you much in this crisis, though.

I agree with some other points, though.
The worst thing about that is Aadiriis' complete idiocy. I took three attempts to get my party (and a few castoffs) to safety - two of them because Aadiriis stood where the party was when the Sorrow appeared, and very effectively guided the Sorrow into the midst of the party. If you're going to sacrifice yourself, pleeeease don't be that dim-witted.

The other main issue is combat interface. You can't set waypoints. You can't just click out of range and the character runs on that path until movement is up. You can't delay the actions of people, i.e. wait until someone else did stuff. You can't tell reliably, by the path shown on screen, whether the character will hit a cloud-thingy. If it's someone's turn who is off-screen, you'll have no idea what's happening, esp. with lots of identical tokens like Sorrow fragments. Characters can stand exactly on top of each other so you can't click them. And so on.

Combat generally is rather bad. Usually, that's less of an issue, as the game's focus obviously lies elsewhere. In scenes like this one, where you have to deal with the combat interface, it just becomes really noticeable.
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sear
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Re: Miel Avest Escape - Was This Meant to Be Fun

Post by sear » March 14th, 2017, 10:22 am

Appreciate the feedback!

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Re: Miel Avest Escape - Was This Meant to Be Fun

Post by Grampybone » March 14th, 2017, 2:48 pm

As someone who's been replaying it for hours, here are a few suggestions for improvement.

Get Aadiriis to move all the way to the right after clearing the rubble to free a castoff. She can go free the two castoffs below Sorrow's spawn point.

At the moment, not a single named castoff, who is specifically instructed to run, reacts to the rubble being cleared towards the teleports, but instead they group at the top or middle shielded area, for easy pickings by Sorrow.

They only move towards the safety once the last rubble is clear, which is silly and annoying.

If you wanted to make it perfectly believable, all castoffs should be hugging the left wall, once shield above Dendra leader is activated. No reason at all to loiter at the middle.

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Re: Miel Avest Escape - Was This Meant to Be Fun

Post by acm » March 14th, 2017, 10:35 pm

I didn't find this encounter too painful, maybe I got lucky. I was worried that I had to run everyone to safety at the end, but the pyramid mcguffin conveniently said it sucked everybody (except the bad guys of course) in.

But I didn't notice a specific effect of rescuing everyone or even meeting them again, where did they go?

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Re: Miel Avest Escape - Was This Meant to Be Fun

Post by Atnas » March 15th, 2017, 4:28 pm

I would've liked it more if I felt that there was a point to saving multiple people.

However, I'm well past that escape and I managed to save -ALL- of the named characters. Yes, not even Aliirithy or whatever her name was had time to die after I managed to find a strategy that worked really well for me- she didn't have time to sacrifice herself!

Didn't matter, though, did it? I'm in the Labyrinth, and I've yet to see any of them here... but perhaps I need to keep on looking.

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Re: Miel Avest Escape - Was This Meant to Be Fun

Post by svartelric » March 16th, 2017, 10:28 am

I have a few issues with this crisis too, especially the dumb NPC running in circles and doing nothing to help (yes, even the named ones after talking to them - only the two bickering types actually fight, the others just run around the Sorrow Fragments without purpose, waiting to get slaughtered) - also Aadiriis' sacrifice is pointless, as she only lasts 1 or 2 turns; being a crazy completionist I tried several times activating all shield and saving all castoff, but I will now just run for the feretory, unless mechanics of the crisis are changed a bit.
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Re: Miel Avest Escape - Was This Meant to Be Fun

Post by eNTi » March 17th, 2017, 3:13 am

I think this game wasn't meant to be fun. No everything is about having fun. Although something being clunky and broken is annoying and wants me to put the thing away. So go figure...

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Re: Miel Avest Escape - Was This Meant to Be Fun

Post by Neuromancer » March 17th, 2017, 6:34 am

No real incentive to save the other NPC's. Including your own party save for the last cast off. I was clearly outnumbered. And had narrowly escaped the sorrow (1 more move and I would have been sorrowmeal.) So quick way to solve this was line your guys up to be in the way of the sorrow. They'll be fine once you click on the pyramid and enter the bloom.

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Hawke64
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Re: Miel Avest Escape - Was This Meant to Be Fun

Post by Hawke64 » March 19th, 2017, 11:10 am

It's Dark Souls kind of fun, when you try and fail and try again, until the objective is complete.
I manage to teleport with Aadiriis being still alive once (I didn't clear the rubble, but activated the shields, so she stayed at the starting point for two more turns to clear it herself and wasn't killed by the Sorrow or its fragments). Lost 2-3 nameless castoffs, though. Disappointed that the game counts Aadiriis dead, no matter what you do.
The crisis is hard to plan (aside from "talk to everyone on the 2nd turn, don't touch the rubble") and there's little reward in terms of story or gameplay (I saw Raima and Andronus in the end, but no one else).

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Re: Miel Avest Escape - Was This Meant to Be Fun

Post by Jernaugh » April 3rd, 2017, 1:37 am

I only played this after the first patch, so I assume it got tweaked. I thought it was one of the better Crises, definitely. It took me two attempts to save every named castoff. There are issues still, such as not being able to tell what skill check might be required for rubble before clicking on it and lack of waypoints to avoid fire, but in the whole I felt pretty damn scared playing it, which sounds like the appropriate response.

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Re: Miel Avest Escape - Was This Meant to Be Fun

Post by Valrog » May 5th, 2017, 10:07 am

I was so embarrassed by this scene. There were legendary writers working on this game. How come none of them realized that this was a community of CASTOFFS. Even the "nameless" castoffs should have been overwhelmingly powerful - each of them able to kill off every one of the sorrow fragments on their own, instead of cowering and running around like headless chickens. They should have only had to flee from the Sorrow - and that too only because it was unkillable. Even the castoff who founded the Dendra Hur - having the experience of hundreds of generations in addition to his awesome castoff abilities - was just standing there like a dumb guy.

I don't mean to hurt the devs. But they really could have done better here.

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Re: Miel Avest Escape - Was This Meant to Be Fun

Post by jsaving » May 5th, 2017, 12:29 pm

I wasn't terrified by the crisis itself, just at having to endure the turn-based combat system long enough to end the encounter. I'll grant than in enduring, I grew strong, but still...

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Re: Miel Avest Escape - Was This Meant to Be Fun

Post by TTO » May 10th, 2017, 2:14 pm

Saving castoffs does not have a noticeable effect later in the game, and that's bad already. But due to the fact that the feretory sucks all castoffs in, there's no point in trying to save them even from a completionist's point of view - because the most efficient saving strategy turns out to be, paradoxically, ignoring castoffs altogether and running to the feretory as fast as you can. This way you can "save" even Aadiris who is supposed to die no matter what you do. Better than you could ever do using the way it was meant to be done.

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Re: Miel Avest Escape - Was This Meant to Be Fun

Post by Jozape » May 10th, 2017, 5:05 pm

Varana wrote:
March 14th, 2017, 8:02 am
The worst thing about that is Aadiriis' complete idiocy. I took three attempts to get my party (and a few castoffs) to safety - two of them because Aadiriis stood where the party was when the Sorrow appeared, and very effectively guided the Sorrow into the midst of the party. If you're going to sacrifice yourself, pleeeease don't be that dim-witted.
I actually interpreted her actions as being selfish and not really being about helping the other castoffs. She seemed like she needed to make herself feel morally superior to the other castoffs. It probably doesn't help that I almost immediately suspected that of her the first time I met her though. Stupid is definitely another way of interpreting her actions though. :)

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