Lacking in replayability?

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DrHappyAngry
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Lacking in replayability?

Post by DrHappyAngry » March 9th, 2017, 9:51 am

Anyone else feel like the game lacks replayability? Maybe it's because my first game I was a chatty nano, and in my second one I'm a chatty jack, but overall it just seems like the last playthrough. Even with playing the nano as a super nice person trying to help everyone, and the jack as a nasty self serving prick, things seem to pretty much be playing out the same. There's a handful of very minor differences, but haven't really spotted any real differences, even when making different choices, like negotiating with the sticha vs stealing their eggs. I'm up to the necropolis on my second playthrough, so maybe more things in the bloom play out different, but I'm just not seeing any real impact from my actions. Maybe a glaive whose only reaction to any obstacle is SMASH would be a bit more different, it just didn't seem like the thing to play with the low amount of combat in this game.

I did really enjoy the game, but it felt kind of short, and I'm just not feeling it with different playthroughs now. I guess maybe it's a letdown in that department after Tyrrany, which had 4 pretty different paths through the game, and each area could be different based on decisions you made in the intro.

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Re: Lacking in replayability?

Post by Chaplain » March 9th, 2017, 10:42 am

DrHappyAngry wrote:Anyone else feel like the game lacks replayability? Maybe it's because my first game I was a chatty nano, and in my second one I'm a chatty jack, but overall it just seems like the last playthrough. Even with playing the nano as a super nice person trying to help everyone, and the jack as a nasty self serving prick, things seem to pretty much be playing out the same. There's a handful of very minor differences, but haven't really spotted any real differences, even when making different choices, like negotiating with the sticha vs stealing their eggs. I'm up to the necropolis on my second playthrough, so maybe more things in the bloom play out different, but I'm just not seeing any real impact from my actions. Maybe a glaive whose only reaction to any obstacle is SMASH would be a bit more different, it just didn't seem like the thing to play with the low amount of combat in this game.

I did really enjoy the game, but it felt kind of short, and I'm just not feeling it with different playthroughs now. I guess maybe it's a letdown in that department after Tyrrany, which had 4 pretty different paths through the game, and each area could be different based on decisions you made in the intro.
I'm in a similar place for my second playthrough and trying to be as complete as possible. Not really feeling a whole lot of difference in outcomes or replayability so far. Have an idea that might change some things up towards the end, but it's going to hing on the outcome of a specific fight.

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Re: Lacking in replayability?

Post by eNTi » March 9th, 2017, 11:04 am

While I'm currently enjoying my first playthrough I just can't bring myself to do all that again. Even the thought is painful. There's just so little actual gameplay in this game.

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Re: Lacking in replayability?

Post by Poganin » March 9th, 2017, 11:26 am

I agree. I have started a second playthrough as a glaive after my nano run, but aside from having it harder to persuade people and not having the read mind skill, I don't see that much of a difference. Quests resolve in the same way, just with less information, because I'm not as convincing.

But what gets me is that there isn't really that much more combat when you can't talk your way out of things. I was extremely frustrated that you can't beat up the thugs who jump you when you find Rhin. No matter how you steer the conversation you can't launch a crisis against them. Best you can do is make some physical tests, like trying to snap the guy's neck or disarm him, but that's all in the dialogue.

I haven't left Sagus Cliffs yet, but I'm already reluctant to continue. Even trying to go for a different tidal affinity this time is hard. Last time I was gold/blue, and now I'm silver/blue. It's like you get a slew of blue tide points from just talking to people and asking questions.

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Re: Lacking in replayability?

Post by Ningauble » March 9th, 2017, 12:15 pm

Poganin wrote:I agree. I have started a second playthrough as a glaive after my nano run, but aside from having it harder to persuade people and not having the read mind skill, I don't see that much of a difference. Quests resolve in the same way, just with less information, because I'm not as convincing.

But what gets me is that there isn't really that much more combat when you can't talk your way out of things. I was extremely frustrated that you can't beat up the thugs who jump you when you find Rhin. No matter how you steer the conversation you can't launch a crisis against them. Best you can do is make some physical tests, like trying to snap the guy's neck or disarm him, but that's all in the dialogue.

I haven't left Sagus Cliffs yet, but I'm already reluctant to continue. Even trying to go for a different tidal affinity this time is hard. Last time I was gold/blue, and now I'm silver/blue. It's like you get a slew of blue tide points from just talking to people and asking questions.
*nods agreement*

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Re: Lacking in replayability?

Post by anonymous6059 » March 9th, 2017, 1:40 pm

eNTi wrote:While I'm currently enjoying my first playthrough I just can't bring myself to do all that again. Even the thought is painful. There's just so little actual gameplay in this game.
Yeah, I'm enjoying the game enough to continue. I'm certainly not satisfied with it, but its not horrible. I seriously doubt I'll be able to replay this game though for quite sometime and if I did I imagine that I'd skim a lot of the flavor text.

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Re: Lacking in replayability?

Post by IHaveHugeNick » March 9th, 2017, 1:58 pm

The potential for replayability is there, but the main problem is poor balance of Effort mechanic. It's just far too easy to win nearly every skill check, which I'd imagine will make additional playthroughs feel very similar.

When they advertised the game as highly replayable, I'd imagine they were mainly talking about the fact that a lot of quests have built-in interesting and fun outcomes for failure, making every playthrough feel different. You win some, you lose some, and experience things that you didn't even know where possible. But that just not what happens, because you don't win some, lose some. You win the most, lose very little.
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Re: Lacking in replayability?

Post by eNTi » March 10th, 2017, 12:47 am

Play Nano go almost full intellect and you will experience 90% of the game. That's my estimation. No need to go through it again. Although I have no idea how you would solve most of the problems without lets say a competent nano. Just trying to RED your way though the game could be an interesting alternative. I GUESS the game would just be 1/3 as long and not nearly as deep but maybe that's a good thing? Maybe that's actually the strength of the game to offer such alternatives.

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Re: Lacking in replayability?

Post by Lord of Riva » March 10th, 2017, 2:11 am

eNTi wrote:Play Nano go almost full intellect and you will experience 90% of the game. That's my estimation. No need to go through it again. Although I have no idea how you would solve most of the problems without lets say a competent nano. Just trying to RED your way though the game could be an interesting alternative. I GUESS the game would just be 1/3 as long and not nearly as deep but maybe that's a good thing? Maybe that's actually the strength of the game to offer such alternatives.
i RED... REDed... i chose the red tide options and had a lot of fights as a wrathful Nano. I doubt that there is much difference overall.

Lets wait for Oom

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Re: Lacking in replayability?

Post by eNTi » March 10th, 2017, 2:13 am

Lord of Riva wrote:
eNTi wrote:Play Nano go almost full intellect and you will experience 90% of the game. That's my estimation. No need to go through it again. Although I have no idea how you would solve most of the problems without lets say a competent nano. Just trying to RED your way though the game could be an interesting alternative. I GUESS the game would just be 1/3 as long and not nearly as deep but maybe that's a good thing? Maybe that's actually the strength of the game to offer such alternatives.
i RED... REDed... i chose the red tide options and had a lot of fights as a wrathful Nano. I doubt that there is much difference overall.

Lets wait for Oom
Oh my... I'm sorry.

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Lord of Riva
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Re: Lacking in replayability?

Post by Lord of Riva » March 10th, 2017, 2:41 am

eNTi wrote:
Lord of Riva wrote:
eNTi wrote:Play Nano go almost full intellect and you will experience 90% of the game. That's my estimation. No need to go through it again. Although I have no idea how you would solve most of the problems without lets say a competent nano. Just trying to RED your way though the game could be an interesting alternative. I GUESS the game would just be 1/3 as long and not nearly as deep but maybe that's a good thing? Maybe that's actually the strength of the game to offer such alternatives.
i RED... REDed... i chose the red tide options and had a lot of fights as a wrathful Nano. I doubt that there is much difference overall.

Lets wait for Oom
Oh my... I'm sorry.
i survived. The crisis system is servicable its not horrible its just not good.

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Re: Lacking in replayability?

Post by eNTi » March 10th, 2017, 2:52 am

Lord of Riva wrote:
eNTi wrote:
Lord of Riva wrote:
i RED... REDed... i chose the red tide options and had a lot of fights as a wrathful Nano. I doubt that there is much difference overall.

Lets wait for Oom
Oh my... I'm sorry.
i survived. The crisis system is servicable its not horrible its just not good.
I think it is an absolute mess, hated every second of it and avoided them like the plague.

Having to PROBE where you are able to move to and still not being sure if you are next to the ncps you want to hit? Or the fact that it takes ages for the npcs to take their turns. Especially running through damage aoe clouds and whatnot? Very poor indication if a spell / attack would have friendly fire.By all comparison to most other games in the genre it's bad. It's even worse than PoEs combat and that's saying a lot. I just can't fathom how they managed it to fuck it up so badly. I thought they were EXPERIENCED developers? Maybe they wanted to make combat ACTUALLY painful?

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Re: Lacking in replayability?

Post by Lord of Riva » March 10th, 2017, 7:46 am

eNTi wrote:
Lord of Riva wrote:
eNTi wrote: Oh my... I'm sorry.
i survived. The crisis system is servicable its not horrible its just not good.
I think it is an absolute mess, hated every second of it and avoided them like the plague.

Having to PROBE where you are able to move to and still not being sure if you are next to the ncps you want to hit? Or the fact that it takes ages for the npcs to take their turns. Especially running through damage aoe clouds and whatnot? Very poor indication if a spell / attack would have friendly fire.By all comparison to most other games in the genre it's bad. It's even worse than PoEs combat and that's saying a lot. I just can't fathom how they managed it to fuck it up so badly. I thought they were EXPERIENCED developers? Maybe they wanted to make combat ACTUALLY painful?
i know how the combat is. Ive just played worse (yes thats possible)

In fact i have posted a giant feedback post on this on the beta and realised there that it would not improve.

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Re: Lacking in replayability?

Post by eNTi » March 10th, 2017, 7:53 am

Lord of Riva wrote:
eNTi wrote:
Lord of Riva wrote:
i survived. The crisis system is servicable its not horrible its just not good.
I think it is an absolute mess, hated every second of it and avoided them like the plague.

Having to PROBE where you are able to move to and still not being sure if you are next to the ncps you want to hit? Or the fact that it takes ages for the npcs to take their turns. Especially running through damage aoe clouds and whatnot? Very poor indication if a spell / attack would have friendly fire.By all comparison to most other games in the genre it's bad. It's even worse than PoEs combat and that's saying a lot. I just can't fathom how they managed it to fuck it up so badly. I thought they were EXPERIENCED developers? Maybe they wanted to make combat ACTUALLY painful?
i know how the combat is. Ive just played worse (yes thats possible)

In fact i have posted a giant feedback post on this on the beta and realised there that it would not improve.
I know, sorry. I just couldn't just not say that...

Neuromancer
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Re: Lacking in replayability?

Post by Neuromancer » March 17th, 2017, 6:46 am

Wouldn't mind different intros/hard mode and other options to spice it up. Especially an iron man run

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Re: Lacking in replayability?

Post by eNTi » March 17th, 2017, 6:57 am

Neuromancer wrote:Wouldn't mind different intros/hard mode and other options to spice it up. Especially an iron man run
Why would you like iron man implemented? There's almost no way you can die and IF something is able to kill you the only chance to avoid that is to interpret the text WELL ENOUGH. There's no warning that makes a "real" death easier to spot than the normal wake-up-in-your-own-mind death. Sometimes the text could have given it away for me but only in hindsight. You just die completely random without warning? Or in almost all cases - if you had a real death in that case before - make it completely trivial. So there is not really a gain to that imho.

Hard mode... well what isn't hard enough? Combat is already extremely frustrating and fiddly as it is.

Of course it's just options... so who really gives a toss? Well... everyone else who waits for the game to gets fixed and performance improved. So it would take away developer time from those issues.

Oh man... i should just stop caring at this point. :lol: :roll:

Neuromancer
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Re: Lacking in replayability?

Post by Neuromancer » March 17th, 2017, 7:21 am

The only thing that got hard was reading all that text. There wasn't much incentive to go to the labyrinth.... And well difficulties such as permadeath would be a challenge. Permadeath with ironman (and very limited saves/loads/gear? Lots to keep us busy with this kinda stuff until the obvious is fixed haha

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Re: Lacking in replayability?

Post by natzy » March 20th, 2017, 11:36 pm

lovebot wrote:Games like this aren't really meant to be replayed.
but this game can be played a lot of times, I first finished it as a Glaive and now a Nano, can't wait to start a new with a Jack. Besides a lot of choices that were not available before, I have seen a lot of content and could finish quests differently.
As George Ziets said the scope of the game is not as big as Pillars of Eternity, but the reactivity is better. And I agree. It's longer then Tyranny and with better reactivity, I understand the backers that feel cheated, but I am really enjoying the game.
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MrBuzzKill
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Re: Lacking in replayability?

Post by MrBuzzKill » March 24th, 2017, 9:00 am

natzy wrote:
March 20th, 2017, 11:36 pm
longer then Tyranny
Is it really longer than Tyranny? Damn, Tyranny must be REALLY short.

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Re: Lacking in replayability?

Post by Hunbaar » March 25th, 2017, 4:40 pm

I saved the game just before the last scene with the Sorrow, and tried all the options, despite your tidal affinity you can get them all, not as bad as Mass Effect 3 but the ending literally gets decided when you say "I am ready to make my decision."

Plus I never recruited the gruffy nano, but his arc gets resolved automatically in the post-game credits. ;)

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