Character Creation - Determining Verb/Foci

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Re: Character Creation - Determining Verb/Foci

Post by anonymous6059 » February 8th, 2017, 5:17 am

I'm going to have to stop reading this forum. I'm so disappointed. TToN was neglected so they could work on other projects. There is no way they could of been working on this game for 4 years and not even get the core material finished. The sad thing is I thought we'd have at least 12 different foci to choose. Please stop, I don't know how much more I can take. [covers his eyes and begins to shake violently] All my hopes and dreams are being shattered. In other words THIS SUCKS!!!!!! Maybe if I don't know how bad it is I won't be as heart broken. Ignorance is bliss, lalalalalalala I can't hear you.

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Re: Character Creation - Determining Verb/Foci

Post by Jernaugh » February 8th, 2017, 7:06 am

Disappointing. I would tend to agree - if you're not going to give a meaningful choice, then don't give one at all, but make the one focus that is given awesome instead.

Of course, depending on how the reactivity works, it is possible that the foci play a deeper role in some plot developments, so that you get a significant difference in the game depending on your focus. Think the clan choice in Vampire: Bloodlines - being a Tremere meant you had access to a different ending and a special location, being a Malkavian made dialogue crazy awesome etc.. Don't know how likely that is, though.

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Re: Character Creation - Determining Verb/Foci

Post by Serjo » February 8th, 2017, 7:40 am

Jernaugh wrote:Of course, depending on how the reactivity works, it is possible that the foci play a deeper role in some plot developments, so that you get a significant difference in the game depending on your focus. Think the clan choice in Vampire: Bloodlines - being a Tremere meant you had access to a different ending and a special location, being a Malkavian made dialogue crazy awesome etc.. Don't know how likely that is, though.
There's no Focus-based reactivity in the December build though. It seems strange that so many mechanics would be missing just two months before release.

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Re: Character Creation - Determining Verb/Foci

Post by Jernaugh » February 8th, 2017, 8:42 am

That's always my great weakness when discussing this kind of thing - I haven't played the beta, nor do I plan to. But this is the kind of thing I could see happening at a plot crossroads later on in the game - at one of the hubs which any playthrough must come to, like for example meeting Ravel in PS:T. I could see such an important NPC interaction (or anything with that level of plot importance) being directly affected by a Focus and even giving specific chances to change Focus, depending on Tides.

So I still think it's possible that this might be in the game, just not necessarily as a constant system which updates your Focus choices moment-by-moment. Instead of the game checking whether you have different new Foci available whenever you spend XP, maybe the game only checks at specific scripted interactions. That would certainly fulfill the promises and be fairly awesome if the moment was handled well, I would think.

But again, I can't judge the likelihood and I'm certainly not sure on what all the datamining info tells us here.

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Re: Character Creation - Determining Verb/Foci

Post by Serjo » February 8th, 2017, 8:45 am

That's why a comment from the developers would be helpful.

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Re: Character Creation - Determining Verb/Foci

Post by Takkik » February 9th, 2017, 2:17 pm

https://www.reddit.com/r/Torment/commen ... y_trailer/

Devs prefer to comment their newly trailer than giving us infos here :(

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Re: Character Creation - Determining Verb/Foci

Post by esest » February 10th, 2017, 10:35 pm

wow. drawn from (of all places) the italian torment fan page. an interview with adam heine. 2 years ago. yea just wow.

http://tormentrpg.tumblr.com/post/78441 ... adam-heine

-Focus is a big deal, and we want to emphasize the specialness of it. To that end:

-The PC will be able to choose from several different Foci at or near the start of the game.

-Torment’s PC will have the unique ability to change his Focus at will (though not necessarily for free; more on that later). So not only can you try out different Foci without restarting the game, but you will unlock new Foci throughout the game and can switch over to the new ones if you want.

-We haven’t finalized our Foci design yet, but we’re planning for at least a couple of PC Foci unique to Torment, in addition to those we adapt from the Corebook (which will be many).

-Companions will have Foci unavailable to the PC, each uniquely suited to their character. (Although not the sole reason for this decision, this supports the Numenera rule that no two party members should share the same Focus).

-Some Companions will have new Foci made up especially for them.

-In the Meres (you know about the Meres, right? In which the PC temporarily takes control of another person’s body during some critical point in their life), the character whose body the PC inhabits can also have their own Focus. Sometimes this is a Focus that was already available to the PC or a Companion, but other times it will be unique to that Mere. This lets us explore Foci that are uniquely cool but that would be difficult to design for across the entire game (like Exists Partially Out of Phase, which enables the character to walk through walls).

-This sounds like a lot of Foci (I actually have almost 30 listed in the initial draft of the design doc), but it’s far from finalized. Additionally, less than half the Foci in the initial draft are marked as A-priority (meaning we will do them in some form); the rest are necessarily marked as “we’ll do this as resources allow.”

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Re: Character Creation - Determining Verb/Foci

Post by Gamgee » February 11th, 2017, 1:25 am

UGH! I'm so glad I didn't back Wasteland 3. Each game is getting managed worse and worse. By the time Wasteland 3 is actually released I can only imagine the colossal failures they will have made of themselves and their good will.

This is getting out of hand. I see they won't respond until absolutely caught red handed. They would all make good politicians. Deny deny deny until your caught red handed.

The Inquisition will be monitoring the situation and a Deathwatch killteam is on standby. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Czpve_uNiLM&t=147s
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Re: Character Creation - Determining Verb/Foci

Post by Luckmann » February 11th, 2017, 3:10 am

esest wrote:wow. drawn from (of all places) the italian torment fan page. an interview with adam heine. 2 years ago. yea just wow.

http://tormentrpg.tumblr.com/post/78441 ... adam-heine

-Focus is a big deal, and we want to emphasize the specialness of it. To that end:

-The PC will be able to choose from several different Foci at or near the start of the game.

-Torment’s PC will have the unique ability to change his Focus at will (though not necessarily for free; more on that later). So not only can you try out different Foci without restarting the game, but you will unlock new Foci throughout the game and can switch over to the new ones if you want.

-We haven’t finalized our Foci design yet, but we’re planning for at least a couple of PC Foci unique to Torment, in addition to those we adapt from the Corebook (which will be many).

-Companions will have Foci unavailable to the PC, each uniquely suited to their character. (Although not the sole reason for this decision, this supports the Numenera rule that no two party members should share the same Focus).

-Some Companions will have new Foci made up especially for them.

-In the Meres (you know about the Meres, right? In which the PC temporarily takes control of another person’s body during some critical point in their life), the character whose body the PC inhabits can also have their own Focus. Sometimes this is a Focus that was already available to the PC or a Companion, but other times it will be unique to that Mere. This lets us explore Foci that are uniquely cool but that would be difficult to design for across the entire game (like Exists Partially Out of Phase, which enables the character to walk through walls).

-This sounds like a lot of Foci (I actually have almost 30 listed in the initial draft of the design doc), but it’s far from finalized. Additionally, less than half the Foci in the initial draft are marked as A-priority (meaning we will do them in some form); the rest are necessarily marked as “we’ll do this as resources allow.”
Hahaha, well, I guess that three is "less than half" of "almost 30", so they're not technically lying, so that makes all of this OK, somehow. :lol:
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the optimist expects it to change;
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Re: Character Creation - Determining Verb/Foci

Post by Serjo » February 11th, 2017, 5:19 am

Luckmann wrote:Hahaha, well, I guess that three is "less than half" of "almost 30", so they're not technically lying, so that makes all of this OK, somehow. :lol:
Keep in mind that this covers all the types of foci he mentions above. Even if "less then half of almost 30" meant a full 14 "A-priority" foci in the initial design document, that would still include the unique companion foci (9 before the cuts), and the foci you can only use when possessing someone in a mere. Even if you assume that there are only two meres with a unique focus in the game, that would already have added up to at least 11 foci reserved for companions and meres. Leaving at most 3 Foci for the player character - which seems to be exactly what we're getting.

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Re: Character Creation - Determining Verb/Foci

Post by Luckmann » February 11th, 2017, 7:32 am

Serjo wrote:
Luckmann wrote:Hahaha, well, I guess that three is "less than half" of "almost 30", so they're not technically lying, so that makes all of this OK, somehow. :lol:
Keep in mind that this covers all the types of foci he mentions above. ...
There is no indication of this. It would be extremely odd to have general foci compiled and then draw foci from that pool to assign to CNPC:s, rather than to create a unique foci for each CNPC as part of their development process - which is exactly what they seem to have done, given that all the CNPC:s (except one) have completely unique foci appropriate to their characters.
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the optimist expects it to change;
the realist adjusts the sails.”

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Re: Character Creation - Determining Verb/Foci

Post by Serjo » February 11th, 2017, 7:36 am

Luckmann wrote:
Serjo wrote:
Luckmann wrote:Hahaha, well, I guess that three is "less than half" of "almost 30", so they're not technically lying, so that makes all of this OK, somehow. :lol:
Keep in mind that this covers all the types of foci he mentions above. ...
There is no indication of this. It would be extremely odd to have general foci compiled and then draw foci from that pool to assign to CNPC:s, rather than to create a unique foci for each CNPC as part of their development process - which is exactly what they seem to have done, given that all the CNPC:s (except one) have completely unique foci appropriate to their characters.
He says "This sounds like a lot of foci" after a list that describes NPC foci, PC foci, and foci unique to meres. He's talking about all of them, not just the PC foci.

I'm thinking he put all of them together so that he could describe them as "almost 30 foci." Because that simply sounds more impressive than breaking them down into categories.

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Re: Character Creation - Determining Verb/Foci

Post by Takkik » February 11th, 2017, 7:59 am

more impressive than " guys, we have only 3 pc foci done, perhaps more to come if we have time!"

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Re: Character Creation - Determining Verb/Foci

Post by Devousa » February 11th, 2017, 6:50 pm

There seems to be more of them coming either on release or as those free expansions/additions. https://steamcommunity.com/app/272270/d ... 599797101/

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Re: Character Creation - Determining Verb/Foci

Post by Drool » February 11th, 2017, 10:35 pm

Game features change during years of development. Film at 11.
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Re: Character Creation - Determining Verb/Foci

Post by Takkik » February 12th, 2017, 3:16 am

Devousa wrote:There seems to be more of them coming either on release or as those free expansions/additions. https://steamcommunity.com/app/272270/d ... 599797101/
A year old dev post. They always said they planning to add more but less than a month of release we don't know what will be in the final game. The problem is the complete silence on the foci situation.

Drool, game features changes, that true. If you look at Planescape Torment there was cut parts, horrible ad&d 2nd rules for a story driven game, bugs etc... And it's still a classic. Even with cut features the new Torment can still be a great game. The issue is that they have done a kickstarter and sold us, backers, a game. If the final product don't match the pitch, there is a problem. We now all know stretch goals are evil and lead to problems/increased cost/drama, but the foci was part of core features, not a stretch goal.

How can they still ask money for new games projects when they can't manage to deliver the promised products or be honest with their backers???

Personally I learned the lesson and didn't backed wasteland 3 or Poe2 from Obsidian. Too many deceptions. i prefer now to wait and judge the final product when it's ready. But I still backed Torment. So i ask again, how many final foci is there for the PC at the release?

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Re: Character Creation - Determining Verb/Foci

Post by Omniknight » February 13th, 2017, 7:42 pm

The lack of an update on Foci from the developers despite repeated inquiries here and on Reddit is disquieting. There's no good reason to ignore the topic for so long except that Foci were abandoned and they know bringing that fact up now right before launch will have some degree of negative effect on sales. On the other hand, not saying anything right now, especially with the repeated attempts for information by fans, flies in the face of their recent apologies about not being open and honest about cut content and promises to do better.
Drool wrote:Game features change during years of development. Film at 11.
For one thing, a game feature that "changes" is not usually still prominently displayed on the developer's website about how much of a core and interesting mechanic it is within the game. In fact, core and interesting features that come from the original source material don't tend to be "changed" like this in the first place because that is counterproductive to the point of using an established and mature game system.

More importantly, inXile just got done taking their lumps about not disclosing cut content prior to being caught by investigative players. They apologized and promised going forward to be more proactive and up-front. >This< topic here is the first true test of that promise, and it appears they are taking the low road again! If this is true, inXile is essentially choosing to lie by omission for profit rather than being straight with its player base.

You don't find that troubling?

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Re: Character Creation - Determining Verb/Foci

Post by Drool » February 13th, 2017, 9:56 pm

Omniknight wrote:You don't find that troubling?
Well, if I was assuming bad faith and determined to view things in the worst possible light, probably. I choose to view it as a company with no PR department and no community managers dropping the ball. YMMV.
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Re: Character Creation - Determining Verb/Foci

Post by Omniknight » February 14th, 2017, 5:50 pm

Drool wrote:
Omniknight wrote:You don't find that troubling?
Well, if I was assuming bad faith and determined to view things in the worst possible light, probably. I choose to view it as a company with no PR department and no community managers dropping the ball. YMMV.
Who is determined to view things in the worst possible light? It's called using logic, bub. I want the game I backed to be a success. But "dropping the ball" is only an acceptable excuse the first time, and especially not right after publicly promising to do better.

Regarding inXile not having the PR team necessary to respond to this: Do you honestly think that sear-, who is very active on these forums and on Reddit, hasn't seen this thread or the equivalent Reddit post? What does logic tell you about the fact that he hasn't responded?

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Re: Character Creation - Determining Verb/Foci

Post by Drool » February 14th, 2017, 11:07 pm

Oh. So because he's seen it he's magically a community manager now?
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