Hint on who is guilty?

Check here to discuss Torment's gameplay topics. Please avoid spoilers in thread titles.

Moderator: Memovira Goons

Shatbat
Initiate
Posts: 2
Joined: June 15th, 2016, 8:50 am

Hint on who is guilty?

Post by Shatbat » June 15th, 2016, 8:38 pm

I've been able to solve all puzzles so far, except for this one. One of three people in the Dendra o'Hur can be guilty: the thuggish one, the teen woman and the mutant. I've exhausted all conversation trees, I even finished the execution quest so Devourer of Wrongs could be there and give me more information, and I have mind reading, and I still haven't found clues that conclusively point to one of the three. So, am I missing something?

Thanks

rickclops
Initiate
Posts: 17
Joined: June 12th, 2016, 6:25 pm

Re: Hint on who is guilty?

Post by rickclops » June 15th, 2016, 11:10 pm

It probably helps if you remember your original conversation with them.

MReed
Scholar
Posts: 195
Joined: February 3rd, 2015, 8:05 am

Re: Hint on who is guilty?

Post by MReed » June 16th, 2016, 6:25 am

This is straightforward if you have "Sense Thoughts" -- other than that, though, I'm not aware of any evidence that points at one over the others.

User avatar
Sithwist
Acolyte
Posts: 79
Joined: February 27th, 2016, 2:35 pm

Re: Hint on who is guilty?

Post by Sithwist » June 16th, 2016, 7:53 am

Correct me if I'm wrong, but to me it's pretty clear:
  • G'zai is weird but can't be the murderer since she thinks that it's an insult to leave any part of the body behind, it must be completely consumed in her mind, even if she doesn't define that as murder. And yet the killer left a hand and a pool of blood, which to her would be amateurish.
  • Mallet can't be the murderer either since he not only readily admits he had a rivalry with the victim and is happy he's dead, but also admits to killing someone else before joining the cult. Not exactly what a murderer would say to avoid suspicion. He is also clearly troubled by the memories he gets when he eats someone which I would assume means that he avoids it if possible. I think that if he would have killed the guy, he would have left much more of the body than just a hand.
  • That leaves Kiyatawa, who dislikes the cult and its members, and who sneaks around eating on her own in dark alleys (Mallet reveals this), and who is convinced the others kill to feed themselves. Her thoughts also betray her with the Scan Thoughts ability, when she's asked if she knows about the Children of the Endless Gate.
The last thing, although you can only know this if you try to accuse each of them, is that Kiyatawa flees the city when she's accused, as opposed to the other two, who protest before being hung by Fulsome.
It's not super 100% clear cut, but that's my take. I wouldn't be surprised if the outcome of this quest affects an encounter later in the game, that confirms whether you were right or wrong with your accusation.
"Absence of Name = Absence of Identity = Absence of Purpose = Absence of Place in Multiverse = Null State = Lost." - Nordom, PS:T.
Prupose acquired: Working on Torment Wiki.

User avatar
Sithwist
Acolyte
Posts: 79
Joined: February 27th, 2016, 2:35 pm

Re: Hint on who is guilty?

Post by Sithwist » June 16th, 2016, 8:03 am

And another thing: It's not only the Scan Thoughts: Kiyatawa says at the beginning that she's seen murders like this before where she comes from, but then denies knowing anything about the Children of the Endless Gate. It's kind of a particular sort of murder, not as common as the regular stab wound victim, wonder where she's been to have seen a lot of murders like this without knowing that cult...
"Absence of Name = Absence of Identity = Absence of Purpose = Absence of Place in Multiverse = Null State = Lost." - Nordom, PS:T.
Prupose acquired: Working on Torment Wiki.

MReed
Scholar
Posts: 195
Joined: February 3rd, 2015, 8:05 am

Re: Hint on who is guilty?

Post by MReed » June 16th, 2016, 8:44 am

All of the above is inductive (beyond the fact that she flees when accused which you don't know until /after/ the fact).

I'm assuming that the OP is looking for the type of conclusive evidence that you would typically find in a RPG -- say, a hidden eyewitness that says "I saw X do it", or passing a skill check when examining the crime scene reveals a brand that the murder must have. As far as I know, nothing of that sort exists here.

User avatar
Homer Morisson
Scholar
Posts: 100
Joined: June 11th, 2016, 7:30 am

Re: Hint on who is guilty?

Post by Homer Morisson » June 16th, 2016, 9:01 am

MReed wrote:All of the above is inductive (beyond the fact that she flees when accused which you don't know until /after/ the fact).

I'm assuming that the OP is looking for the type of conclusive evidence that you would typically find in a RPG -- say, a hidden eyewitness that says "I saw X do it", or passing a skill check when examining the crime scene reveals a brand that the murder must have. As far as I know, nothing of that sort exists here.
I concur, I also haven't found anything rock solid on either of the suspects before naming one, even though I had scoured the town exhaustively.

So yeah, there are hints pointing strongly to one of the suspects, but in a real court of law those hints would be considered circumstantial at best and probably never be accepted into evidence.
You exist because we allow it, and you will end because we demand it.

Create your Star Citizen Account today and get 5000 UEC Ingame Currency for free!
UEE Citizen Record

User avatar
Sithwist
Acolyte
Posts: 79
Joined: February 27th, 2016, 2:35 pm

Re: Hint on who is guilty?

Post by Sithwist » June 16th, 2016, 9:02 am

Indeed. I haven't seen hard evidence either, but I think that's intentional. Devourer of Wrongs says that you have to notice discrepancies in their stories. I do hope the choice you make will affect something later in the game.
"Absence of Name = Absence of Identity = Absence of Purpose = Absence of Place in Multiverse = Null State = Lost." - Nordom, PS:T.
Prupose acquired: Working on Torment Wiki.

rickclops
Initiate
Posts: 17
Joined: June 12th, 2016, 6:25 pm

Re: Hint on who is guilty?

Post by rickclops » June 16th, 2016, 9:26 am

The leader and Mallet say that it's not them. The other two are suspicious to me.

User avatar
Homer Morisson
Scholar
Posts: 100
Joined: June 11th, 2016, 7:30 am

Re: Hint on who is guilty?

Post by Homer Morisson » June 16th, 2016, 9:51 am

Sithwist wrote:Indeed. I haven't seen hard evidence either, but I think that's intentional. Devourer of Wrongs says that you have to notice discrepancies in their stories. I do hope the choice you make will affect something later in the game.
Yes, and I should probably state this more clearly myself:

I also think that this is intentional and I truly like it this way... I wouldn't want it to be a "Yeah, they did it, here's a ton of proof I already gathered for you!"-deus ex machina kind of deal.

It is perfectly fine to require the player to do some thinking for himself!

That said however, I would have appreciated a way to trap the guilty party through cunning and cleverness into revealing themselves, or finding an eyewitness after a properly thorough investigation and through combining the individual pieces of hearsay and indications instead of being stuck with just the best guess, however educated.
You exist because we allow it, and you will end because we demand it.

Create your Star Citizen Account today and get 5000 UEC Ingame Currency for free!
UEE Citizen Record

genavos
Initiate
Posts: 8
Joined: June 16th, 2016, 7:58 pm

Re: Hint on who is guilty?

Post by genavos » June 16th, 2016, 8:24 pm

I really liked the ambiguity in this. It left me doubting my choice (which, apparently, was the wrong one) and had far more impact. It says things about how the world works in this game and also about how justice works in the real world. Way better than your typical "100% proven without any doubt whatsoever" detective quest. I'd hope it does have consequences later on.

GavinJF
Acolyte
Posts: 78
Joined: November 19th, 2015, 12:12 pm
Contact:

Re: Hint on who is guilty?

Post by GavinJF » June 17th, 2016, 7:23 am

Without getting TOO spoilery, you can check the stories of at least two of the suspects by going to places they talked about and asking around. One scrap of evidence you find is a pretty huge clue.

Lemme know if you find it. Curious to see if it changes your mind about the feel of the quest.

User avatar
Sithwist
Acolyte
Posts: 79
Joined: February 27th, 2016, 2:35 pm

Re: Hint on who is guilty?

Post by Sithwist » June 17th, 2016, 9:00 am

GavinJF wrote:Without getting TOO spoilery, you can check the stories of at least two of the suspects by going to places they talked about and asking around. One scrap of evidence you find is a pretty huge clue.
Oh, wow, totally missed that. I'll have to check it out. Thanks for the tip!
"Absence of Name = Absence of Identity = Absence of Purpose = Absence of Place in Multiverse = Null State = Lost." - Nordom, PS:T.
Prupose acquired: Working on Torment Wiki.

User avatar
Homer Morisson
Scholar
Posts: 100
Joined: June 11th, 2016, 7:30 am

Re: Hint on who is guilty?

Post by Homer Morisson » June 17th, 2016, 11:54 am

GavinJF wrote:Without getting TOO spoilery, you can check the stories of at least two of the suspects by going to places they talked about and asking around. One scrap of evidence you find is a pretty huge clue.

Lemme know if you find it. Curious to see if it changes your mind about the feel of the quest.
I actually guessed that I might be able to check the "I've been drinking all night long in a tavern-alibi but couldn't access the relevant area (if my idea about the place is right) due to a certain blocker bug yet on that playthrough.

I also did confirm the alibi of the Cult Leader claiming that he had been involved in some kind of business with Fulgore all night long, so they were immediately off the hook.

Like I said in the above post, I do not expect you writers to make it completely obvious and hand us a deus-ex-machina-eyewitness after five minutes of random clicking through the neighbourhood; what I'd do like though would be a murder investigation that could actually be made into a rock-solid law case, maybe even appearing in whatever passes as a court of law in that town, presumably the Council.
It wouldn't have to be this quest, but I'd be thrilled if maybe by solving this one, we'd become eligible for a bigger, more uptown-kind of case, maybe by catching the Council's eye and being an impartial investigator to boot.

This probably comes too late anyways since writing is pretty much done apparently, but hey... you never know unless you try. =)
You exist because we allow it, and you will end because we demand it.

Create your Star Citizen Account today and get 5000 UEC Ingame Currency for free!
UEE Citizen Record

GavinJF
Acolyte
Posts: 78
Joined: November 19th, 2015, 12:12 pm
Contact:

Re: Hint on who is guilty?

Post by GavinJF » June 17th, 2016, 12:11 pm

Homer Morisson wrote:I actually guessed that I might be able to check the "I've been drinking all night long in a tavern-alibi but couldn't access the relevant area (if my idea about the place is right) due to a certain blocker bug yet on that playthrough.
You have one of the right instances here, but you've helped me identify a certain node that could be clearer. I've added something to some text. Thanks!
Homer Morisson wrote:I also did confirm the alibi of the Cult Leader claiming that he had been involved in some kind of business with Fulgore all night long, so they were immediately off the hook.
Interesting. This totally wasn't the clue I had in mind, but you're right. There is a THIRD clue, though.
Homer Morisson wrote:Like I said in the above post, I do not expect you writers to make it completely obvious and hand us a deus-ex-machina-eyewitness after five minutes of random clicking through the neighbourhood; what I'd do like though would be a murder investigation that could actually be made into a rock-solid law case, maybe even appearing in whatever passes as a court of law in that town, presumably the Council.
This would be super cool, but you're right that this would require a lot more writing and scripting. Plus, Fulsome is the law down there, and I get the feeling that those council types wouldn't DIRTY THEIR HANDS with an Underbelly murder investigation.

User avatar
Homer Morisson
Scholar
Posts: 100
Joined: June 11th, 2016, 7:30 am

Re: Hint on who is guilty?

Post by Homer Morisson » June 17th, 2016, 12:30 pm

GavinJF wrote:
Homer Morisson wrote:I actually guessed that I might be able to check the "I've been drinking all night long in a tavern-alibi but couldn't access the relevant area (if my idea about the place is right) due to a certain blocker bug yet on that playthrough.
You have one of the right instances here, but you've helped me identify a certain node that could be clearer. I've added something to some text. Thanks!
Awesome, that's great to hear - always happy to contribute! =)
GavinJF wrote:
Homer Morisson wrote:I also did confirm the alibi of the Cult Leader claiming that he had been involved in some kind of business with Fulgore all night long, so they were immediately off the hook.
Interesting. This totally wasn't the clue I had in mind, but you're right. There is a THIRD clue, though.
I see, must have missed that one completely then... that is if you are not indeed talking about Kiyatawa being seen in "a nearby alley" eating a stiff all on her own, which I believe is corroborated by both Mallet and the hilariously masochistic (or at least extremely pain- and apparently infection-resistant) visitant cult member.

Also, I was hoping that the second murder of Crooked Qeek, if one rests before naming a subject to Fulsome would turn up some sort of rock-solid proof, but sadly it didn't really shed that much more light on anything.
GavingJF wrote:
Homer Morisson wrote:Like I said in the above post, I do not expect you writers to make it completely obvious and hand us a deus-ex-machina-eyewitness after five minutes of random clicking through the neighbourhood; what I'd do like though would be a murder investigation that could actually be made into a rock-solid law case, maybe even appearing in whatever passes as a court of law in that town, presumably the Council.
This would be super cool, but you're right that this would require a lot more writing and scripting. Plus, Fulsome is the law down there, and I get the feeling that those council types wouldn't DIRTY THEIR HANDS with an Underbelly murder investigation.
Heck yeah, you managed to convey that feeling perfectly... especially given the stance you devs currently (and most likely indefinitely) take on allowing us players to initiate combat encounters freely and attack random NPCs just 'cause, I was actually pretty surprised by Fulsome's non-chalant way of dealing with my (false, in retrospect) accusation: "Yeah, she protested her innocence, but my men were convinced and hung her on the spot!"

Not only does he get away with having someone killed in front of witnesses, he even gets away with doing so acting on a complete stranger's hunch who only just arrived in the city a short while ago.

(Yeah, I know that this is exactly the reason Fulsome wants the LCO on the case, but the Council might not agree so readily...)
You exist because we allow it, and you will end because we demand it.

Create your Star Citizen Account today and get 5000 UEC Ingame Currency for free!
UEE Citizen Record

Kaeam
Initiate
Posts: 3
Joined: February 18th, 2015, 7:17 am

Re: Hint on who is guilty?

Post by Kaeam » June 17th, 2016, 12:48 pm

In my playthrough, Crooked Qeek survived the murder attempt and revealed the following about the murderer: "He was wearing Dendra O'hur robes, and he had something shiny in his hand.". Unfortunately, this only raises more questions as both male suspects have an alibi.

GavinJF
Acolyte
Posts: 78
Joined: November 19th, 2015, 12:12 pm
Contact:

Re: Hint on who is guilty?

Post by GavinJF » June 17th, 2016, 1:03 pm

There is a pretty critical line that was changed or got cut at one point, I'm noticing. The character with the crucial evidence is still out there, but I'm feeling like there's not enough arrows pointing to them at the moment, so I might give this all a closer look soon.

User avatar
Homer Morisson
Scholar
Posts: 100
Joined: June 11th, 2016, 7:30 am

Re: Hint on who is guilty?

Post by Homer Morisson » June 17th, 2016, 1:17 pm

GavinJF wrote:There is a pretty critical line that was changed or got cut at one point, I'm noticing. The character with the crucial evidence is still out there, but I'm feeling like there's not enough arrows pointing to them at the moment, so I might give this all a closer look soon.
I would have expected the construct lady controlled by a child to maybe have some insight as she was right next to both incidents, but as far as I recall, there was no dialogue option centered on this topic whatsoever with her.
You exist because we allow it, and you will end because we demand it.

Create your Star Citizen Account today and get 5000 UEC Ingame Currency for free!
UEE Citizen Record

GavinJF
Acolyte
Posts: 78
Joined: November 19th, 2015, 12:12 pm
Contact:

Re: Hint on who is guilty?

Post by GavinJF » June 17th, 2016, 1:24 pm

Homer Morisson wrote:
GavinJF wrote:There is a pretty critical line that was changed or got cut at one point, I'm noticing. The character with the crucial evidence is still out there, but I'm feeling like there's not enough arrows pointing to them at the moment, so I might give this all a closer look soon.
I would have expected the construct lady controlled by a child to maybe have some insight as she was right next to both incidents, but as far as I recall, there was no dialogue option centered on this topic whatsoever with her.
Might have been past her bedtime.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest