Ahsen Imitations quest issue (spoilers)

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Sithwist
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Ahsen Imitations quest issue (spoilers)

Post by Sithwist » June 15th, 2016, 2:48 pm

So I'm trying to find all the women to solve this quest, and so far I got Loss of Self, Sygin and Avina. There's at least one more that the Ghostly Woman describes as something like 'dead but not dead' or something like that, that I haven't found yet. I met Kiyatawa in the Dendra lair, and I got a description saying that she looks like the lady in the Fifth Eye, but I didn't get an option to ask her about that. Then I accused her of murder and she's gone. Was that an error in the conversation, or is she really the fourth woman? My quest log didn't update in any case and she's not in the fathom.
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Re: Ahsen Imitations quest issue (spoilers)

Post by Shatbat » June 15th, 2016, 5:21 pm

There is another fourth woman, so don't worry about it

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Re: Ahsen Imitations quest issue (spoilers)

Post by MReed » June 16th, 2016, 6:29 am

Interesting -- I totally missed that (and it is a bug, I think, unless this quest is incomplete in the beta).

The person that you are missing is found by searching the rubble next to the Changing God priests on the Cliff's map -- you'll have the option to make a Might check to shift the rubble, and if you pass it, you'll get back a memory that generations a reflection in the labrynth that you can then activate with the puzzle box (which you have to claim from the flute girl), which then constitutes the missing woman)

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Re: Ahsen Imitations quest issue (spoilers)

Post by Sithwist » June 16th, 2016, 8:34 am

MReed wrote:Interesting -- I totally missed that (and it is a bug, I think, unless this quest is incomplete in the beta).

The person that you are missing is found by searching the rubble next to the Changing God priests on the Cliff's map -- you'll have the option to make a Might check to shift the rubble, and if you pass it, you'll get back a memory that generations a reflection in the labrynth that you can then activate with the puzzle box (which you have to claim from the flute girl), which then constitutes the missing woman)
Ok, yeah I had a suspicion that was it. Thanks!
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Re: Ahsen Imitations quest issue (spoilers)

Post by Sithwist » June 16th, 2016, 10:22 am

Hmmm ok so I pulled Seria's reflection into the labyrinth with the box and spoke about her father and all that. The Ashen Imitation quest updated in the journal, but I don't see her white silhouette appear in the ghostly woman's fathom like the others did to reveal a memory. The only option is to fight the father, which I would rather avoid. Is that a bug, or am I missing something?
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Re: Ahsen Imitations quest issue (spoilers)

Post by MReed » June 16th, 2016, 12:50 pm

There is a 5th woman -- finding her will allow you to complete the quest peacefully. The text for the dialog option "Tell me how to find a woman, again" has been updated to reflect the one that you are looking for now.

If you can win the combat, that will also resolve the quest.

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Re: Ahsen Imitations quest issue (spoilers)

Post by tshipman » June 16th, 2016, 8:31 pm

There is a 5th woman -- finding her will allow you to complete the quest peacefully. The text for the dialog option "Tell me how to find a woman, again" has been updated to reflect the one that you are looking for now.
So, it should be stated. This quest only works if you have a female character.

If you have a male character, it appears to be impossible to get Loss of Self. Not sure if that's a bug or intended.

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Re: Ahsen Imitations quest issue (spoilers)

Post by Sithwist » June 17th, 2016, 11:22 am

MReed wrote:There is a 5th woman -- finding her will allow you to complete the quest peacefully. The text for the dialog option "Tell me how to find a woman, again" has been updated to reflect the one that you are looking for now.
Hm, ok I didn't think there was a fifth one because the Ghostly Woman only says "I don't know, maybe you've found them all, or maybe they..." and then says to talk to her father.
I'll keep looking though, thanks.
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Re: Ahsen Imitations quest issue (spoilers)

Post by Aramintai » June 17th, 2016, 1:44 pm

tshipman wrote: If you have a male character, it appears to be impossible to get Loss of Self. Not sure if that's a bug or intended.
Yea, I've played as a male LC and this quest was unsolvable - Loss of Self didn't want to talk to me and companions were not appearing when Tabaht attacked and roflstomped the LC. I thought it was another bug or something. But if it's only for female LC then it should not have started at all and quest giver should have said something different. If it is indeed so then it's an oversight and should be fixed.
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Re: Ahsen Imitations quest issue (spoilers)

Post by tshipman » June 17th, 2016, 6:25 pm

Yea, I've played as a male LC and this quest was unsolvable - Loss of Self didn't want to talk to me and companions were not appearing when Tabaht attacked and roflstomped the LC. I thought it was another bug or something. But if it's only for female LC then it should not have started at all and quest giver should have said something different. If it is indeed so then it's an oversight and should be fixed.
If you want to defeat the Tabaht, buy the armor from the Cultists in Circus Minor. You're basically unkillable. Cons: it costs 2K.

Also, when I kill the Tabaht, I'm unable to leave the Labrynth, as the screen just goes white.

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Re: Ahsen Imitations quest issue (spoilers)

Post by Aramintai » June 18th, 2016, 12:17 am

tshipman wrote:
Yea, I've played as a male LC and this quest was unsolvable - Loss of Self didn't want to talk to me and companions were not appearing when Tabaht attacked and roflstomped the LC. I thought it was another bug or something. But if it's only for female LC then it should not have started at all and quest giver should have said something different. If it is indeed so then it's an oversight and should be fixed.
If you want to defeat the Tabaht, buy the armor from the Cultists in Circus Minor. You're basically unkillable. Cons: it costs 2K.

Also, when I kill the Tabaht, I'm unable to leave the Labrynth, as the screen just goes white.
Clearly, this quest is bugged and unfinished.
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Re: Ahsen Imitations quest issue (spoilers)

Post by N01 » July 18th, 2016, 10:43 am

Hi All!

As a male LC, this thread was a bit of a 'red herring' - whether it's a bug or design I'm not sure...

After finding *3* of the Imitations, you can dialogue with the father and initiate a fight...

This is what I chose to do after getting the liquid armor... and claw implants. Being a nano - onslaught was so expensive (no cost for basic nano move in first beta) that I opted for a 6 point no-cost basic attack. With a 25-40% hit chance - it took *awhile* to whittle down the 3 Tabaht - to say the least!

It's not that I *wanted* to short cut the 'proper' way (there's supposed to usually be more than one way to do things - right?) but that I spent *sooooo* much time trying to talk to Loss-of-self who, according to this thread was the 4th imitation, which she definitely *seemed* to be but would in no way advance the quest in the journal or otherwise open up an effective dialogue option with the father (I *assume* this is what happens when you find all the Imitations?)...

So... in *my* playthrough I found Sygin (Levy Commander), Avina (Little Girl with the Flute), Seria (Under The Rubble)...

Did my *super-long* fight...

Ended up at the Dendra O'hur on 'Circles in Red' side quest much later (last place I explored except dome with 'Peerless' in it)... and found Kiyatawa who, in my playthrough, was the 4th *actual* (for me) Ashen Imitation...

So for the male LC playthrough, at least, the 4 Ashen Imitations are:

Seria
Avina
Sygin
Kiyatawa

I hope this helps someone. It's fun to figure things out for ourselves - I figured out the sounds to open the book riddle (Lost Book quest - hint: open the book twice) and the ball/globe inside the pyramid (Order of Truth) but was *completely* stumped and then misled(?) after googling and seeing Loss-of-Self listed (mistakenly?) as one of the Imitations...

Again - I'm not sure this is true for a female LC playthrough - but it was my experience playing through as male.

I read through this thread again just now and saw someone mention not having dialogue options for Kiyatawa... was this a play through on a female character?

Perhaps it is Kiyatawa (male playthrough) *or* Loss-of-self (female playthrough) that is the 4th Imitation? I would call this a major bug at best or poor game design at worse?

If others care to confirm or debunk this theory (perhaps looking in your journal for who you actually talked to if you've completed the quest already) that would be great :)

Also - if there is some explanation about why/how/if this is 'as-intended' could a dev from on high kindly shed some light on *why* it is this way (if it truly is)?

The TL;DR is that this isn't 'unsolvable' playing through as a male castoff... don't waste time on Loss-of-Self and go talk to Kiyatawa (Dendra O'hur).
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Re: Ahsen Imitations quest issue (spoilers)

Post by Aramintai » July 18th, 2016, 11:56 am

N01 wrote: The TL;DR is that this isn't 'unsolvable' playing through as a male castoff... don't waste time on Loss-of-Self and go talk to Kiyatawa (Dendra O'hur).
Isn't that the killer from another quest? What if she's gone already? I don't recall her having any extra dialogue concerning imitations, but if she's gone because of another quest you can't complete this one either way.
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Re: Ahsen Imitations quest issue (spoilers)

Post by N01 » July 18th, 2016, 9:29 pm

Well - "possible killer" seems to be more accurate at this point? Here's a whole thread about *that*...

But point absolutely taken. If you indicate she's the murderer - she runs off. Making it particularly difficult to "find the 4th" as a male castoff leaving the "liquid armor workaround"...

Insofar as not having options about her being an imitation - in my playthrough she said she became Dendra O'hur to block out the woman's voice... - partially because Imbitur (leader) telling her it would make things better or something but it hasn't so she's mad at him for misleading her and thinking of leaving anyway - even before being accused (if she's the one you accuse).

I believe you need to have spoken to the Ghost Woman already in order to have picked up the Ashen Imitation quest before you can actually have those particular dialogue trees with *any* of the women... And perhaps to also be a male castoff for the dialogue options with Kiyatawa?

Again - this is still supposition at this point... it would be nice to confirm (or debunk) this behaviour re: Loss-of-Self / Kiyatawa and male or female castoff...

I know there is a gender difference in the 'Mother' (technically 'Wayward Daughter' or 'Wayward Son') quest where you help Loss-of-Self or Piquo, respectively... I am guessing that Loss-of-Self remains after her quest has been resolved? So there is no 'order of operations' for how you solve / complete those quests... is there?

As Aramintai points out - If you do 'Circles in Red' first (as a male castoff) and then tell Fulsome that Kiyatawa is the killer - you've just wrecked your only way of dialoguing with the 4th Ashen Imitation to open up the non-violent way to complete the quest...?

Is this 'order of operations' (get 'Ashen Imitations' and 'Circles in Red' quest *then* talk to Kiyatawa *then* accuse her (if you're going to) by talking to Fulsome by design? If so - shouldn't it be the same (or is it the same?) (ie get 'Ashen Imitations' quest and 'Wayward Daughter' quest *then* talk to Loss-of-Self about her being an Imitation before or at the same time and before completing 'Wayward Daughter') regardless of the gender you choose to play as the Last Castoff?

I wrote a bunch more but realized that *if* the behavior we are stating is correctly stated - then the only question is whether it is a bug or by design?

The 'workaround(s)' if we don't like it may be to simply pick up the Ashen Imitation quest first? Or not accuse Kiyatawa of the murder(s) in 'Circles in Red' quest. Or, more extreme (and I'm *not* being serious here - only technical), is not play a male LC at all?
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Re: Ahsen Imitations quest issue (spoilers)

Post by MReed » July 21st, 2016, 11:46 am

That's really fascinating that this quest plays out differently for male vs. female castoffs.

In any case, there is no imbalance between the two paths -- one of the paths for resolving the Loss-Of-Self quest is to tell her to (literally) jump off a cliff, which could lead to female castoffs having the same sorts of problems as a male castoff with accusing Klyatawa of being the murder.

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Re: Ahsen Imitations quest issue (spoilers)

Post by Agelastos » September 8th, 2016, 8:20 am

Sigh. I can't even finish this quest the violent way because Seria's father/"the Ghostly Man" won't appear.
I'm playing a male LC.
I've got Avina, Sygin and Seria.
I have activated Seria's reflection and questioned it about her father.
I made sure to start this quest and speak to Kiyatawa before I started Circles in Red, but that didn't help, and since I'm playing a male LC I can't get Loss-of-Self either.
I've got the following memories in the Ghostly Woman's fathom: The one with the Tabaht siege and the one with the stasis pod.
But, for some reason, I don't have the memory with the probability engine (which you are supposed to get from Avina, at least according to the walkthroughs I've read), which means no Ghostly Man (even though the Ghostly Woman keeps pointing at him and telling me to speak to him).
I've spoken to all of the women multiple times. I even got the secret broker in Government Square to tell me about the probability engine.
Any idea what I should do now? Is there anything I CAN do? Anything I have missed?

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Re: Ahsen Imitations quest issue (spoilers)

Post by GavinJF » September 8th, 2016, 12:34 pm

Agelastos wrote:Sigh. I can't even finish this quest the violent way because Seria's father/"the Ghostly Man" won't appear.
I'm playing a male LC.
I've got Avina, Sygin and Seria.
I have activated Seria's reflection and questioned it about her father.
I made sure to start this quest and speak to Kiyatawa before I started Circles in Red, but that didn't help, and since I'm playing a male LC I can't get Loss-of-Self either.
I've got the following memories in the Ghostly Woman's fathom: The one with the Tabaht siege and the one with the stasis pod.
But, for some reason, I don't have the memory with the probability engine (which you are supposed to get from Avina, at least according to the walkthroughs I've read), which means no Ghostly Man (even though the Ghostly Woman keeps pointing at him and telling me to speak to him).
I've spoken to all of the women multiple times. I even got the secret broker in Government Square to tell me about the probability engine.
Any idea what I should do now? Is there anything I CAN do? Anything I have missed?
Reported this. Thanks!

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Re: Ahsen Imitations quest issue (spoilers)

Post by Agelastos » September 9th, 2016, 1:55 pm

GavinJF wrote: Reported this. Thanks!
If it helps, I used Tidal Surge to activate Seria's reflection, not the puzzle box. I didn't even know about the puzzle box at the time.

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Re: Ahsen Imitations quest issue (spoilers)

Post by GavinJF » September 9th, 2016, 2:04 pm

Agelastos wrote:
GavinJF wrote: Reported this. Thanks!
If it helps, I used Tidal Surge to activate Seria's reflection, not the puzzle box. I didn't even know about the puzzle box at the time.
Good to know. Added it to the report.

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Re: Ahsen Imitations quest issue (spoilers)

Post by myndcraft » March 3rd, 2017, 10:53 am

My quest log tells me I've met/spoken with the following:
• Sigyn
• Seria
• Avina
• Loss-of-self

Inside the Labyrinth the "Ghostly Woman" started the seige animation and tells me to "Seek the membra" or to "talk to him" and points, but he is not rendering on my screen. Did I miss a step, I would assume not based on her text, or is this a bug?

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