No walk toggle in the game?

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codjer
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No walk toggle in the game?

Post by codjer » January 11th, 2017, 11:57 am

Hi everyone, no walk toggle in the game?

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Re: No walk toggle in the game?

Post by Luckmann » February 9th, 2017, 1:07 pm

Of course not, it's a console game.
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Re: No walk toggle in the game?

Post by Taziel » February 11th, 2017, 12:15 pm

Luckmann wrote:Of course not, it's a console game.
I Will assume you are trolling. It is also a PC game, as to the walk toggle the question has been asked many times by many different people (Including me) but has not been answered.

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Re: No walk toggle in the game?

Post by Serjo » February 11th, 2017, 1:10 pm

I would prefer if the resources for a walk toggle were instead spent on implementing some of the cut stretch goals that backers explicitly paid money for.

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Re: No walk toggle in the game?

Post by kilobug » February 11th, 2017, 2:04 pm

Taziel wrote:I Will assume you are trolling. It is also a PC game, as to the walk toggle the question has been asked many times by many different people (Including me) but has not been answered.
Well, some people say "it's a console game !!!!111!!!" everytime there is something they don't like... :s

As for a walk toggle, I never saw the point in them, never used them, it feels like a waste of time to just watch my character walk slowly when there is an option to run. And I would prefer resources to be spent improving other parts of the game. But then it's probably very light, so if some people really, I don't mind much.

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Re: No walk toggle in the game?

Post by Gizmo » February 11th, 2017, 2:16 pm

Serjo wrote:I would prefer if the resources for a walk toggle were instead spent on implementing some of the cut stretch goals that backers explicitly paid money for.
Are stretch goals part of the tiered packages? :? I was under the impression that the tiers were guaranteed, but the stretchgoals would happen ~if enough people happened to buy the tiers. (I of course want them too... but I didn't consider them at all, or as owed, when I backed the game. I simply hoped they might happen.) Technically, I'm not sure that they are obligated for those, aside from by their word and good will. Circumstances often change, and things fall apart, or just don't work out.

I think it's likely an exponential growth problem with some of the [now cut] features that was never thoroughly worked out until it bit them in the butt.
(But that's just a guess.)

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Re: No walk toggle in the game?

Post by Lord of Riva » February 11th, 2017, 2:30 pm

kilobug wrote:
Taziel wrote:I Will assume you are trolling. It is also a PC game, as to the walk toggle the question has been asked many times by many different people (Including me) but has not been answered.
Well, some people say "it's a console game !!!!111!!!" everytime there is something they don't like... :s

As for a walk toggle, I never saw the point in them, never used them, it feels like a waste of time to just watch my character walk slowly when there is an option to run. And I would prefer resources to be spent improving other parts of the game. But then it's probably very light, so if some people really, I don't mind much.
The walk toggle is a console things though. Or rather: due to the fact that the console controller is equipped with analog joysticks rather than digital keys like a K/M a toggle is incredibly pointless.

That said in the end i do not see a point anyways either

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Re: No walk toggle in the game?

Post by kilobug » February 11th, 2017, 2:52 pm

Lord of Riva wrote:The walk toggle is a console things though. Or rather: due to the fact that the console controller is equipped with analog joysticks rather than digital keys like a K/M a toggle is incredibly pointless.
Hrm, no, there are many pure PC games that don't have a run toggle, and there is no reason to believe that different pressure on the console controller will lead to different walking/running speed - would require a run and a walk animation, which is about 95% of having a tun toggle.

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Re: No walk toggle in the game?

Post by Firkraag » February 11th, 2017, 3:06 pm

Lord of Riva wrote:That said in the end i do not see a point anyways either
Roleplay.

It used around 5 to 10% of the overall time in games, at most, but still it can be nice experience, when you have that option. Mostly, it's there only to savour the awesomeness of the moment. Like, when you have incriminating evidence and stroll though the palace or enter a bad guy's throne room and don't want to look, like a running crazyman. It just works better, than simple cut scenes, when it's you, who do the call.

Though, it would nice, I don't push it. Just explain, why it can be interesting.
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Taziel
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Re: No walk toggle in the game?

Post by Taziel » February 11th, 2017, 4:13 pm

Firkraag wrote:
Lord of Riva wrote:That said in the end i do not see a point anyways either
Roleplay.

It used around 5 to 10% of the overall time in games, at most, but still it can be nice experience, when you have that option. Mostly, it's there only to savour the awesomeness of the moment. Like, when you have incriminating evidence and stroll though the palace or enter a bad guy's throne room and don't want to look, like a running crazyman. It just works better, than simple cut scenes, when it's you, who do the call.

Though, it would nice, I don't push it. Just explain, why it can be interesting.
I agree. For some of us it is a RP issue and can detract from the enjoyment of the story. For those who don't want to, then you don't have to. Thant is the point of it being a toggle. I personally find that it enhances most RPG's and makes the game better for it.

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Re: No walk toggle in the game?

Post by Serjo » February 11th, 2017, 4:15 pm

I'd rather they put in a toggle for more than 3 Foci.

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Re: No walk toggle in the game?

Post by Gizmo » February 11th, 2017, 4:20 pm

kilobug wrote:As for a walk toggle, I never saw the point in them, never used them, it feels like a waste of time to just watch my character walk slowly when there is an option to run. And I would prefer resources to be spent improving other parts of the game. But then it's probably very light, so if some people really, I don't mind much.
Why would any character run all of the time? [It's supposed to be an RPG, and that's out of character for just anything but a roadrunner.]

First off... Planescape had walking and running; Fallout had running and walking... It looks bizarre if the PC runs like a maniac to everyone and every place; [more so in Fallout ;) ]. It's just not something people do. (Also the NPCs of both games would choose to run some of the time, as suited the situation.)

Myself, I'd have the NPCs freak out if the PC ran up to them like a nut in the street, with them not knowing who they are, or what intentions they have.

Second off... if the system handled running and walking, it could restrict running to the unencumbered. Grimrock does this... It even restricts climbing ladders if the party is carrying too much baggage.
Last edited by Gizmo on February 11th, 2017, 4:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: No walk toggle in the game?

Post by Taziel » February 11th, 2017, 4:36 pm

Gizmo wrote:
kilobug wrote:As for a walk toggle, I never saw the point in them, never used them, it feels like a waste of time to just watch my character walk slowly when there is an option to run. And I would prefer resources to be spent improving other parts of the game. But then it's probably very light, so if some people really, I don't mind much.
Why would any character run all of the time? [It's supposed to be an RPG, and that's out of character for just any thing but a roadrunner.]

First off... Planescape had walking and running; Fallout had running and walking... It looks bizarre if the PC runs like a maniac to everyone and every place; [more so in Fallout ;) ]. It's just not something people do. Myself, I'd have the NPCs freak out if the PC ran up to then like a nut in the street, with them not knowing who they are, or what intentions they have.

Second off... if the system handled running and walking, it could restrict running to the unencumbered. Grimrock does this... It even restricts climbing ladders if the party is carrying too much baggage.
That could be an interesting option, really annoying as well :P. I remember Fallout 3 and the several hours of trekking back and forward to grab the hoard of loot then find a merchant with enough coin to buy it. But you are right that it should affect NPC's I believe it was either BG1 or BG2 that the NPC's commented and acted different if you had your weapons out in the open as well (Equipped in active slot). And for those who say the animations are not in the engine, then watch some of the ingame engine cut-scenes that show the character slow down to a walk.

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Re: No walk toggle in the game?

Post by Gizmo » February 11th, 2017, 4:45 pm

A greatly encumbered party might need to drop stuff to outrun their pursuers. I recall that in most of the SSI gold-box D&D games, a PC could go from having a [combat] movement range of twelve, to a range of only three... for holding on to too much money. And from that, it always occurred to me that the PC in Fallout was hauling a trash bag full of bottle caps ~often while sneaking.
Taziel wrote: I remember Fallout 3 and the several hours of trekking back and forward to grab the hoard of loot then find a merchant with enough coin to buy it.
FO3 was wrong on so many levels, but the one lunacy IMO was that the so-called 'fast travel' was actually prohibited at the times when it made the most sense to use it; (when you didn't want to sit through the PC's walk from point A to B).
(NV is guilty of this; it's been several years, I cannot recall if FO3 did this too, now that I think about it)

The whole point of abstracted travel is to not have to sit through it with them. Fallout 1 had it, and the trek could last TWO WEEKS though barren wastes, with no encounters. Somebody's logic on FO3/NV FT that I read, said, "but they are overloaded", or "Their leg is injured, of course they can't fast-travel" :lol: But these are irrelevant because it's not teleportation, it walking; if it takes them ten times as long with a broken leg, so what/so be it. :? they walk it, I don't need to sit through it in realtime, and the game can resume when they get there.
But you are right that it should affect NPC's I believe it was either BG1 or BG2 that the NPC's commented and acted different if you had your weapons out in the open as well (Equipped in active slot). And for those who say the animations are not in the engine, then watch some of the ingame engine cut-scenes that show the character slow down to a walk.
Fallout did also; BlackIsle made the best RPGs there are. :D
Last edited by Gizmo on February 11th, 2017, 5:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: No walk toggle in the game?

Post by Taziel » February 11th, 2017, 5:02 pm

Gizmo wrote:
Fallout did also; BlackIsle made the best RPGs there are. :D[/quote]

Agreed. They were my first PC games and over the years I have had many copies of them until GOG (as I played the discs to death). I am strongly hoping that there is a walk toggle already in the game in some form or another, as the game has already gone "Gold" and I doubt they would be willing to add a feature they assume no-one wants. Though starting to loose hope on that front as they have been avoiding answering that question since even before the kickstarter began. Pillars of Eternity did the same. Though eventually the community modded it in :).

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Re: No walk toggle in the game?

Post by Gizmo » February 11th, 2017, 5:06 pm

Taziel wrote: I am strongly hoping that there is a walk toggle already in the game in some form or another, as the game has already gone "Gold" and I doubt they would be willing to add a feature they assume no-one wants.
I want (but can live without) the option to walk or run, but what's really troubling is that this notion "waste of time" is a telling one that may extend deep into the core design. What else might be seen a waste of time?

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Re: No walk toggle in the game?

Post by Taziel » February 11th, 2017, 5:19 pm

Gizmo wrote:
Taziel wrote: I am strongly hoping that there is a walk toggle already in the game in some form or another, as the game has already gone "Gold" and I doubt they would be willing to add a feature they assume no-one wants.
I want (but can live without) the option to walk or run, but what's really troubling, is that the notion "waste of time" is a telling one that may extend deep into the core design.
Agreed, though to me it is a function that does heavily affect how deeply I can immerse myself in the game and story. And the fact that it is obviously already in the game engine, if the feature is not there it does show neglect. And would effect my willingness to back a product by that developer again :( , Though as a single backer I doubt they would consider it a loss. I still have hope that the function is already there or can be easily modded in by the community.

p.s. I apologize for being so negative. Sadly this is a trend I am seeing from most developers recently, especially since I love the story's they wright and enjoy the immersion. I just hope like the resurgence of this style of game will also mean the resurgence of the quality of design.

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Re: No walk toggle in the game?

Post by Lord of Riva » February 11th, 2017, 5:37 pm

you guys are kinda misunderstanding me. While im indeed a always "run" dude because i have bees in my bottom (as the germans say) there are way better solutions for walk/run stuff, using analog controls (or other means like distance ) can be used for an automatic run/walk animation cycle.

im pretty sure that this actually exists in Torment, if you click near your character he/she walks instead of runs.

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Re: No walk toggle in the game?

Post by Taziel » February 11th, 2017, 6:02 pm

Lord of Riva wrote:you guys are kinda misunderstanding me. While im indeed a always "run" dude because i have bees in my bottom (as the germans say) there are way better solutions for walk/run stuff, using analog controls (or other means like distance ) can be used for an automatic run/walk animation cycle.

im pretty sure that this actually exists in Torment, if you click near your character he/she walks instead of runs.
I am sorry if i mistook your statement. As of now I haven't played the most recent beta update as I realized halfway through the first city that my save would not transfer over and I did not want to ruin the story, however clicking close to him using a mouse and keyboard just causes him to lurch forward like Frankenstein's monster. And as the mouse does not track to the screen you can not just hold at a certain distance and have him walk slowly that direction.

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Re: No walk toggle in the game?

Post by kilobug » February 12th, 2017, 12:39 am

Gizmo wrote:Why would any character run all of the time?
It's one of the many trade-off between "fun" and "realistic". Like when you sleep it takes a couple of seconds, not 8/10 hours. When you drink or eat it's almost instant too. Changing clothes, idem. And we never bother the player with having to pee or take a bath. The same goes with walking, it's just boring and a waste of time to watch your party walk for long, slowly, around a map. So we make it faster. And "walking faster" feels even more unrealistic than "running always", so running it is.
Gizmo wrote:Second off... if the system handled running and walking, it could restrict running to the unencumbered. Grimrock does this... It even restricts climbing ladders if the party is carrying too much baggage.
I don't think that's a good idea either, perhaps during Crisis, but not overall. Walking slowly when encumbered just puts the burden on the player, having to wait longer being half-bored, so the characters can carry the loot. Not fun, and doesn't add that much in term of realism (you should see the weird and creative solutions my PCs in pen&paper games find when I try to bother them with carrying loot, but you can't do that in CRPG).

Restricting climbing ladders why not, but it might just lead to micromanagement, climb ladder with half of the loot, deposit it on top, climb down empty, climb up again with the rest of the loot - that's something the party might very well do, and in a novel it would be a line the first time and then nothing, but that is just boring for the player to do, so like going to bathroom we skip it.

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