The Bard's Tale Trilogy "The Destiny Knight" Launch Trailer

For all discussion on all the previous The Bard's Tale games: the classic 1980's games (The Bard's Tale II: Destiny Knight, & III: Thief of Fate) & the humorous The Bard's Tale (2004) spin off.

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Re: The Bard's Tale Trilogy "The Destiny Knight" Launch Trailer

Post by Midnight Angel » October 24th, 2018, 4:12 am

Ah, but the C-64 had a forced encounter bug.

The 'forced random encounter' flag on a dungeon square was not reset, so you got a new random encounter whenever you ended up on that square...

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Re: The Bard's Tale Trilogy "The Destiny Knight" Launch Trailer

Post by ZZGO » October 24th, 2018, 5:40 am

"It's not a bug, it's a feature!"

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Re: The Bard's Tale Trilogy "The Destiny Knight" Launch Trailer

Post by miasma » October 24th, 2018, 6:17 am

I would love to see Krome make an all-new Bard's Tale game at some point, using an enhanced version of the tool set that they've been using for these remasters. I understand it wouldn't be included in the purchase price of the Trilogy, but I think pretty much all of us would be willing to snatch it up for an additional fee.

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Re: The Bard's Tale Trilogy "The Destiny Knight" Launch Trailer

Post by thebruce » October 24th, 2018, 6:36 am

Yep. Mentioned that way back during the beta. Make a new game, or an expansion set. This is much closer to the product I think many of us had in mind for a sequel.
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Re: The Bard's Tale Trilogy "The Destiny Knight" Launch Trailer

Post by rakenan » October 24th, 2018, 8:36 am

thebruce wrote:
October 24th, 2018, 6:36 am
Yep. Mentioned that way back during the beta. Make a new game, or an expansion set. This is much closer to the product I think many of us had in mind for a sequel.
Yeah, I was expecting something more along the lines of Legend of Grimrock or the more recent Might and Magic games. What I got was, well, a big disappointment to me. It feels bad to get a game funded largely by big fans of the classic games and made to appeal to basically everybody else. Wasteland 2 and Torment: Tides of Numenara didn't have this problem at all.
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Re: The Bard's Tale Trilogy "The Destiny Knight" Launch Trailer

Post by HawkSlayer » October 24th, 2018, 8:58 am

jamespodesta wrote:
October 23rd, 2018, 8:50 pm
_noblesse_oblige_ wrote:
October 23rd, 2018, 5:18 pm
kaypy wrote:
October 23rd, 2018, 3:41 am
A few months back: "Eh. Cute idea, I guess I can throw some money at them before I inevitably go back to the c64 version"

Now: "Are we there yet??" <refresh> "Are we there yet??" <refresh> "Are we there yet??" <refresh> "Are we there yet??" <refresh> "Are we there yet??" <refresh> "Are we there yet??" <refresh> "Are we there yet??" <refresh>
Heh. Yeah, initially my thought was that I wanted them to be good for new players, but that I was content playing the originals in the emulator. But, Krome has done such an amazing job that the remasters may become my definitive edition of the game, if Legacy Mode turns out well.
ha. There's a challenge for me then :)

This week will probably be spent on support for BT2 issues that arise, while getting BT3 items/monsters/maps converted over.
We still want to drop Legacy at the same time as BT3, so will need to start up Legacy talks again to discuss the best way to split up the legacy features and what platform featureset is considered the "Legacy" version... coz we don't have the resources to make the game play like every platform...
(I'd be learning towards c64 here).
I think I'd like to get a minimum legacy set working at BT3 drop, and then develop the final bits through steam Beta so I can get more iterative approach on it.
More on all that next week.
I think C64 would be a good choice as well. It was one of the toughest and coolest versions I thought. The PC version had worse graphics and felt like easy mode by comparison(yes, I had already played the entire game before seeing the PC version so easy is relative). On C64 no character could start with more than 19 health at level 1. They were given +10 free health at level 1 on some other platforms. The difference was brutal the first few levels when just walking down the street could easily end in disaster! I think that the challenge aspect of legacy mode is a big part of what people who want it are looking for, minus bugs, of course. Oh yeah, and CATS EYES were green in C64 ;) ;)

Having that said, again. This remaster has already exceeded my expectations as well as many others. Considering the initial difficulties that had Inxile almost cancelling them I'm thrilled with the remasters already and reminded my buddies to grab a copy on steam.

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Re: The Bard's Tale Trilogy "The Destiny Knight" Launch Trailer

Post by jamespodesta » October 24th, 2018, 5:11 pm

I've noticed the cat's eyes flame is green on c64. Does anyone know if that gave it any specific extra ability, or was it just aesthetic?

I have this intuitive feeling that cat's eyes should be a really important light spell but it doesn't seem so by the manual and for the fact it was excluded form the BASP spell.
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Re: The Bard's Tale Trilogy "The Destiny Knight" Launch Trailer

Post by _noblesse_oblige_ » October 24th, 2018, 5:22 pm

jamespodesta wrote:
October 23rd, 2018, 8:50 pm
_noblesse_oblige_ wrote:
October 23rd, 2018, 5:18 pm
kaypy wrote:
October 23rd, 2018, 3:41 am
A few months back: "Eh. Cute idea, I guess I can throw some money at them before I inevitably go back to the c64 version"

Now: "Are we there yet??" <refresh> "Are we there yet??" <refresh> "Are we there yet??" <refresh> "Are we there yet??" <refresh> "Are we there yet??" <refresh> "Are we there yet??" <refresh> "Are we there yet??" <refresh>
Heh. Yeah, initially my thought was that I wanted them to be good for new players, but that I was content playing the originals in the emulator. But, Krome has done such an amazing job that the remasters may become my definitive edition of the game, if Legacy Mode turns out well.
ha. There's a challenge for me then :)
Everything I've seen indicates that you're more than up to the challenge.
jamespodesta wrote:
October 23rd, 2018, 8:50 pm
This week will probably be spent on support for BT2 issues that arise, while getting BT3 items/monsters/maps converted over.
Yeah, cool. Makes sense. I'm sure Drool will be very happy to start testing BT3 in earnest.
jamespodesta wrote:
October 23rd, 2018, 8:50 pm
We still want to drop Legacy at the same time as BT3, so will need to start up Legacy talks again to discuss the best way to split up the legacy features and what platform featureset is considered the "Legacy" version... coz we don't have the resources to make the game play like every platform...
(I'd be learning towards c64 here).
I think I'd like to get a minimum legacy set working at BT3 drop, and then develop the final bits through steam Beta so I can get more iterative approach on it.
More on all that next week.
Cool, cool. Looking forward to talking more next week, once the BT2 release is under control. C64 is a decent reference platform for most things. Not sure that any one platform needs to be completely copied though. Technically, given that the IIe was programmed directly by Cranford, that is probably is "most authentic" but I do agree with another poster who indicated that C64 was "most prolific".
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Re: The Bard's Tale Trilogy "The Destiny Knight" Launch Trailer

Post by Drool » October 24th, 2018, 5:22 pm

I think the only thing about Cat Eye was that it lasted until dispelled.
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Re: The Bard's Tale Trilogy "The Destiny Knight" Launch Trailer

Post by kaypy » October 24th, 2018, 6:16 pm

"Until dispelled" was in practice about the same duration as GRRE (first time to hit a darkness time). So it wound up a rather inferior spell.

If it was me rejigging the spell list I would probably try for: Cats Eye shouldn't see in darkness zones, but it shouldn't be removed by darkness either (since it isn't really a light) so once you get out of the darkness you wouldn't need to recast it.

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Re: The Bard's Tale Trilogy "The Destiny Knight" Launch Trailer

Post by rakenan » October 24th, 2018, 6:48 pm

As mentioned, the regularity of darkness zones made Cat Eye a pretty irrelevant spell. Indefinite duration doesn't mean much when light spells never last their entire duration regardless. It's a pity, since the green flame looked cool.
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Re: The Bard's Tale Trilogy "The Destiny Knight" Launch Trailer

Post by Drool » October 24th, 2018, 6:51 pm

I like the Darkness idea. Since it's not a light spell, it should have some special interaction with that. Hell, I could almost see an argument for it piercing Darkness, but that might make it too powerful.

Of course, you eventually just use BASP because it's so much more convenient.
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Re: The Bard's Tale Trilogy "The Destiny Knight" Launch Trailer

Post by thebruce » October 24th, 2018, 7:33 pm

Indefinite just meant you didn't have to worry about it going out until you hit a darkness zone. So it did have value, even if just a bit, even if you know you'll be hitting darkness soon. Unless you really thought that it's a cast once and never again spell!
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Re: The Bard's Tale Trilogy "The Destiny Knight" Launch Trailer

Post by Keighn » October 24th, 2018, 7:59 pm

It now freezes up even more than patch 1.9. Lenovo core i3 computers are crap; they can’t even run bardstale.

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Re: The Bard's Tale Trilogy "The Destiny Knight" Launch Trailer

Post by jamespodesta » October 24th, 2018, 9:39 pm

Keighn wrote:
October 24th, 2018, 7:59 pm
It now freezes up even more than patch 1.9. Lenovo core i3 computers are crap; they can’t even run bardstale.
that -force-glcore should still be working if you want to see if that is any more stable. The big problem I have with the unity engine is that when you get a hardware incompatibility, there's not a lot of things you can do other than enable other graphics pipelines or just avoid doing using some feature completely.
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Re: The Bard's Tale Trilogy "The Destiny Knight" Launch Trailer

Post by Midnight Angel » October 25th, 2018, 2:10 am

jamespodesta wrote:
October 24th, 2018, 5:11 pm
I've noticed the cat's eyes flame is green on c64. Does anyone know if that gave it any specific extra ability, or was it just aesthetic?
Quite possible that they had some special ideas for CAEY, but sadly, its only upside I ever found was the indefinite duration.
It didn't even detect secret doors in the 8bit versions.

So, if you can find a way to make it interesting again, I'm all for it!

(The idea of it not being removed by Darkness, maybe even piercing Darkness - on the downside, being night vision rather than magic revelation, it'd not reveal secret doors... hmm; sounds interesting, if I may say so.)
Last edited by Midnight Angel on October 25th, 2018, 2:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Bard's Tale Trilogy "The Destiny Knight" Launch Trailer

Post by HawkSlayer » October 25th, 2018, 2:24 am

jamespodesta wrote:
October 24th, 2018, 5:11 pm
I've noticed the cat's eyes flame is green on c64. Does anyone know if that gave it any specific extra ability, or was it just aesthetic?

I have this intuitive feeling that cat's eyes should be a really important light spell but it doesn't seem so by the manual and for the fact it was excluded form the BASP spell.
I noticed light spells had not only duration limits but vision limits. a low level spell would only allow you to see 10' in front of you where as cats eyes was the maximum possible, at least 40' but not more than 60'. On C64 it did not see secret doors though, so if I recall correctly it had maximum viewing distance and indefinite duration. Considering it was tweaked on the remastered to see secrets, no doubt it is the best spell.

Now, there was this one effect in the game, 'smoke in your eyes'.. screwed up your vision to 0 or 10'. Possibly cats eyes was a factor for that also I can not remember.

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Re: The Bard's Tale Trilogy "The Destiny Knight" Launch Trailer

Post by Midnight Angel » October 25th, 2018, 2:57 am

HawkSlayer wrote:
October 25th, 2018, 2:24 am
I noticed light spells had not only duration limits but vision limits. a low level spell would only allow you to see 10' in front of you where as cats eyes was the maximum possible, at least 40' but not more than 60'.
There were vision limits indeed. Can anyone check whether CAEY yields a better viewing range than, say, GRRE?
Duration was 'indefinite' for CAEY vs. 'long' for GRRE
HawkSlayer wrote:
October 25th, 2018, 2:24 am
Now, there was this one effect in the game, 'smoke in your eyes'.. screwed up your vision to 0 or 10'. Possibly cats eyes was a factor for that also I can not remember.
To my best of knowledge, CAEY was as weak to 'smoke in your eyes' as all the other methods of illumination.

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Re: The Bard's Tale Trilogy "The Destiny Knight" Launch Trailer

Post by thebruce » October 25th, 2018, 6:52 am

Midnight Angel wrote:
October 25th, 2018, 2:10 am
(The idea of it not being removed by Darkness, maybe even piercing Darkness - on the downside, being night vision rather than magic revelation, it'd not reveal secret doors... hmm; sounds interesting, if I may say so.)
Not being lost in Darkness - that's an interesting twist, which actually makes some sense. If Darkness isn't some kind of magical barrier to anything visual but rather a physical means of snuffing any light (magical flame or physical flame), then CAEY could be immune to Darkness tiles.
HawkSlayer wrote:
October 25th, 2018, 2:24 am
Now, there was this one effect in the game, 'smoke in your eyes'.. screwed up your vision to 0 or 10'. Possibly cats eyes was a factor for that also I can not remember.
Right, Darkness with Smoke in your eyes would nullify all forms of visual acuity :) (throw in some ANMA there too!)
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Re: The Bard's Tale Trilogy "The Destiny Knight" Launch Trailer

Post by Keighn » October 25th, 2018, 9:18 am

Even on minimal settings it just freezes. Fresh installs.
It has to be my machine. That’s what I get for buying cheap Lenovo.

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